Fellside

I respectfully disagree. The whole purpose and intent of the English GLs is to withstand legal challenge. They are pretty water tight. “Don’t panic Mr Manwearing” Just get out there and enjoy yourself.

Only ‘advice and recommendations’ - not conditions of use. Even so, most of the advisory actions have a ‘get out’ in other parts of the doc. As I say, and others have observed, It is written to avoid challenge. BTW it’s hardly irresponsible or blasé to point out the obvious - in a way which hopefully helps others. No need for the hissy fit. If you’re happy documenting everything, why not? While it’s not strictly a legal necessity, it’s perfectly harmless. Happy hunting.

100%

With respect, I think you may have misinterpreted GL42. It is full of contradictions and ‘get out’ clauses - precisely to avoid challenge. My quote above is all the example you need. I copied it straight from GL42, word for word. Also, context and ‘the spirit of the law’ is on your side - quotes from the House of Commons Committee, documented DEFRA discussions, Ministerial meetings and the whole shabang surrounding the latest GL formation etc. As I said, your ‘defence’ is written in to the licence I think we need to avoid the annual harvest GL panic and scare mongering. Besides, wasn’t the OP asking about the Welsh GLs?

Sorry to confuse things further, but the constabulary you’re receiving it in to is the deciding factor. In other words some do insist on the SGC being signed off by the selling RFD, while some are OK with the receiving RFD signing it off. I recently had a gun transferred to a neighbouring county to avoid sending my SGC off in the post - as my own county constabulary insisted on seller sign off. There is variability and hence a little confusion. Best to check what the police insist upon in your area.

Do you mean in Wales? You are not required to do this in England - so you will definitely not need defence in court. Your defence is already written in to the licence: “You’re not required to use alternative, lawful methods under condition 1(a) and 1(b) where the use of such methods would be impractical, without effect or disproportionate in the circumstances.” Sorry if you did mean Wales. Just want to save folks from panicking re English GLs.

Yes quite ludicrous..!! You need to get rid of that bunch of loonies who are presuming to run your countryside. Think a few people (above) are confusing the Welsh and English GLs - which doesn’t help.

Are you quoting the English GL there? If so, this has been thrashed to death on PW. There are so many contradictions and ‘get out clauses’ it would be impossible to challenge. For example, the quote you give is later contradicted by “this is not necessary if it is impractical to do so”. It is really OK within the spirit and context of the English GL to shoot on stubble. It is also recognised that control is not just farm wide but area wide etc. I am not familiar with the Welsh situation - and must leave others to advise. One caveat though. It is common for panic and misunderstanding to arise from the various paragraphs in the English GLs - as people often (understandably) don’t pick up on the contradictions and get-outs in other parts. It’s such a large document these days. I wonder if this could be possible with the Welsh version too. Incidentally we get these panickers every harvest time……?!

Please tell us which ‘organisation’ is advising this.

Ah well, enjoy the game fair then.

Sorry Westley, I sense your frustration, however I’m afraid there is huge room for improvement in this area of policing. That’s not a criticism or a negative, more an opportunity identified. If you don’t see it that way, we will just have to agree to differ. Have a pleasant weekend - hopefully shooting pigeons somewhere in a peaceful spot.

I respectfully disagree. Someone with more than two brain cells to make a spark would know they were shooting birds in some way, form or other. They wouldn’t have to be an expert pigeon shooter. This leads me to believe there may be an element of opportunistic training involved. On the occasion my friend was swooped on (literally by a police helicopter), they had phoned the farm first to clarify, yet still swooped. They ordered my friend to lay his gun in the dirt and keep his hands above his head etc. He was 4 miles from the nearest village - not a house or road in sight. He was strangely accepting of this situation. As I mentioned earlier, I would have taken it further. As an aside, I would like to emphasise that I am a keen supporter of the police. I am grateful for the extremely tough job they do. However all practices / protocols evolve, and this aspect of policing is in need of urgent transformation I’m afraid.

That’s because no one bothers to make it happen. I’m sure lots of people would just be relieved when the firearms unit eventually disembark - and they can get back to their shooting. Understandable. I can only say that for me, this would be the beginning of the affair and certainly not the end.

Yes. One wears camo and sits by some decoys in a hide. The other doesn’t. There are simply too many examples of armed response units swooping on the former - when the purpose and intent of the shotgunner is plainly obvious.

P.S I’m not concerned with what the scaly wags in Liverpool are up to…..and yes I would get the story out. I’ve seen far less newsworthy items go to press. If the headline includes ‘held at gun point’ believe me it would copy! No - deep rural. Open countryside.

It’s called justice……🙄 Framed in the correct context it WOULD actually do our sport a lot of good. If it happened to me - there would be a press and media pack despatched within the hour and interviews to follow. The only time I’ve been reported (for shooting on a friend’s farm) a local bobby phoned me and checked out the facts etc. After contacting the farm it was case closed. That’s how it should be.

Legitimate shooters being held at gun point in the open countryside - needs to be reported to the press and media. The headlines could read: “2 men threatened by armed police for legally shooting crows on farmland”…. or similar. Further details re the cost of such a blunder should be mentioned. I’m just guessing, perhaps £50,000 for ground mobilisation, twice that if a helicopter is involved (as it was with someone I know). If there’s one thing that spells disastrous PR for the police, it’s any blatant squandering of the public purse, along with the injustice of someone being unfairly ‘got at’. A few such headlines, along with social media storms, would cause a rethink.

I completely agree. You really only know what a business is made of when you feedback a genuine product problem. Top companies stand by their products, some unfortunately launch in to a war of blame and denial. Express……?! They might have improved after being acquired by Fiocchi, hopefully for the OP, who knows.

I think wearing crocs is only an offence in a built up area.

Well done Dad…!! Great experience for your boy.

Enjoyed reading that report. So I’m not the only one that has a ‘missing phase’ now and then….🙂 It happened to me mid afternoon yesterday. I stopped and went for a stroll, pie and drink in hand. Hey presto, the reset button was pressed and I got back on to them.

Nice report. 12 for 16 shots is good going!

When I’m ‘doing my job right’ as you say I will often use Italian 7 1/2 (2.4mm) on the average decoyed birds. They work - no doubt about it. However, even when the birds are decoying well, there will always be the odd long crosser or a second further bird of a pair. I tend to use number 6 cart’ in the second more choked barrel for these. It’s just what I find works for me. It’s probably also become a confidence factor if you know what I mean. It’s all good - whatever one’s ‘magic formula’ might be.

Yes agree - 40 yards is a long way. I get feasible patterns out to 50 yards with well selected/tested chokes and cart’s, but 40 to 45 yards is a reasonable normal limit. If I pattern at 60 yards however, it’s almost as though the pattern board has been missed - virtually nothing on it.

Good idea 👍 Yes it was good fun Scully. Didn’t brave it with the 410 today though. I took it with me, but the birds were tricky with a lot of long crossers. Cheated and used the big canon instead…… 🙂