Cushat Posted November 3, 2009 Report Share Posted November 3, 2009 I was reading an article recently where he stated he'd recently gone to no. 5 shot for most of his game shooting with great success. Apparently he made the deceision based on some BASC ballistic research into game cartridges and shot sizes - anyone know where I can find a copy of this research? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted November 3, 2009 Report Share Posted November 3, 2009 Hi, Good question, I'd like to know as well. David, where are you? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babka3487 Posted November 3, 2009 Report Share Posted November 3, 2009 I read that article too, I think I read in the basc magazine a while back that you need to ring up for the information, not sure whether they then post it to you I would be interested in reading it though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cushat Posted November 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2009 The article I was reading was in this month's Shooting Gazette. I remember some research into chokes published in BASC magazine a while ago (the main point being that anything over half choke didn't result in tighter patterns). Don't remember seeing anything on shot size though?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted November 3, 2009 Report Share Posted November 3, 2009 Cushat, Hi, Not being funny, mate, have a genuine reason for asking: are you really interested in shotgun ballistics? Not heavy stuff, just enough to know what's what. Babka too perhaps. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted November 3, 2009 Report Share Posted November 3, 2009 I've bumped the question up to our research team, will post their answer ASAP D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babka3487 Posted November 3, 2009 Report Share Posted November 3, 2009 I have a mild interest - I like to sprout random ballistic facts on a shoot day more than anything! I also like to put some thought into what cartridges I buy so I feel confident with them and will probably look to home load in the future. Yeh it was that article I read in the Shooting Gazette - I think he starts off by trying to defend that rediculous article about Peter Schwerty (don't know if you read that a couple of issues back). I also remember the research about chokes in the BASC magazine but they have not mentioned anything further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry c Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 The Hull Cartridge website has some good information on the velocities and power of their cartridges at different ranges plotted on graphs. If you click on a cartridge type the graphs are visible below, you can change the load to see a different graph. Not sure how accurate it is but I found it quite interesting for comparing different shot sizes / loads. http://www.hullcartridge.co.uk/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 Moring all, There is no formal research project / paper in the offing. What we have seen was information coming back from the USA from shooters who have been experimenting with larger than traditional shot sizes, typically trying what we know as No5's for live quarry shooting. The reports that came out - all be they pretty anecdotal, was that No 5's were much more effective on live quarry. We are certainly seeing a significant increase in No5’s being used for home loading. Hope that helps, but let me know if there is anything more I can do. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbart Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 But american number 5's will be "steel" wot they ?As lead shot is banned in most if not all states. So is that equivelent to our 6's in lead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 5's will of course work better but then 3's probably would as well, though I did shoot a few pigeons with old alfamax bb's and they knocked them down about 70 yards up but at some point especially with game you have to be careful about knocking birds about too much, certainly start shooting low partridges with 5's and you won't be popular so guess its still a game of selecting the right artridge for the type of game and height you expect them to be at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casts_by_fly Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 But american number 5's will be "steel" wot they ?As lead shot is banned in most if not all states. So is that equivelent to our 6's in lead Lead is only banned for waterfowl (all over, federal ban) and some places for all game/birds (certain states wetlands and upland areas). So when David is referring to UK 5's, he means US 6's, which would be about the minimum size that anyone uses there. More commonly guys shooting wild birds in the prarie areas, especially later in the season when birds are flushing at 40+ yards, will be shooting US5's and US 4's (UK 4's and 3's). If you are going to steel, there is good evidence that going to 2's will be the best bet. Thanks, Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casts_by_fly Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 but at some point especially with game you have to be careful about knocking birds about too much, certainly start shooting low partridges with 5's and you won't be popular Al4x, Can you expand that a bit more? What do you mean by knocking them about too much? A dead bird is a dead bird. Thanks, Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbart Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 Lead is only banned for waterfowl (all over, federal ban) and some places for all game/birds (certain states wetlands and upland areas). So when David is referring to UK 5's, he means US 6's, which would be about the minimum size that anyone uses there. More commonly guys shooting wild birds in the prarie areas, especially later in the season when birds are flushing at 40+ yards, will be shooting US5's and US 4's (UK 4's and 3's). If you are going to steel, there is good evidence that going to 2's will be the best bet. Thanks, Rick My friend who lives in minnesota just uses steel for everything and even his 2 nearest clay shooting grounds are steel only :blink: So i dont know if minnesota is a lead free state,but anyway he uses 4's for most things if i remember correctly. When he was over here it was all new to him as he hadnt used lead in years,but he had one thing in common with most uk shooters in that he didnt think steel,tin etc gave the same stopping power or downrange energy of lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 (edited) Babka, hi, With a bit of luck you WILL have a PM. I'm not very good with computors. When I tried to retrieve the piece from "my documents" the options I got from "insert special item" were meaningless to me and I hadn't a clue what else to do. Hopefully, son will sort it after work. Cheers Edit: OK sent. However, could not get the graph to transmit even though it was contained in the text but all it does really is graphically show what is verbally described. If you are interested, I could probably do it on a direct e-mail. Edited November 4, 2009 by wymberley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 Al4x, Can you expand that a bit more? What do you mean by knocking them about too much? A dead bird is a dead bird. Thanks, Rick it is but shoot a 20 yard partridge with a full load of 5's and you'll have feathers everywhere and you really won't want to eat it. High birds are another matter but driven shoots vary hugely in quality of birds shown. We're not really talking about overkill more what will do the job properly without imparting too much energy to bruise and damage the meat to the point you wouldn't want to eat it. Were it vermin control its another matter but generally 6's or 5's on most pheasants its where you point the gun makes more difference than the size of lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babka3487 Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 (edited) Thanks for sending that wymberley, I'll get back to you when I've had a chance to read through it all - although a quick scan through suggested it's right up my street :blink: I agree with henry c about the hull cartridge website - it's one of the reasons I buy Hull Cartridge over the others! Edited November 4, 2009 by babka3487 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 Thanks for sending that wymberley, I'll get back to you when I've had a chance to read through it all - although a quick scan through suggested it's right up my street :blink: I agree with henry c about the hull cartridge website - it's one of the reasons I buy Hull Cartridge over the others! You're welcome. Sorry if it didn't print out too well. We've had trouble before on this site's system with tabulation - trying to layout ballistic tables is a nightmare. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casts_by_fly Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 My friend who lives in minnesota just uses steel for everything and even his 2 nearest clay shooting grounds are steel only So i dont know if minnesota is a lead free state,but anyway he uses 4's for most things if i remember correctly. When he was over here it was all new to him as he hadnt used lead in years,but he had one thing in common with most uk shooters in that he didnt think steel,tin etc gave the same stopping power or downrange energy of lead. Yes, MN is one of the quirky ones. They have banned lead on (I think) all public land. At the least it is any public land with a wetland on it, which in MN is everything. I think WI, right next door, has done the same. CA is another one. Most of the east coast, southern US, and plains states have no problems with lead aside from the waterfowl regs. It is absolutely true that for the same size shot you don't get the knockdown or momentum of lead with steel. But, if you upsize by 2 sizes and make sure you're upping the speed (to 1350+) you can recoup what you've lost. In my experience and from the data I've seen, properly sized steel works just fine for most everyone's common shooting. Thanks Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Babka, You're welcome. Computor sorted now, so if you wish, I can sent you the graph by e-mail. It covers other quarry species that require hits other than the three in the example. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babka3487 Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Yes please wymberley , I'l send you a pm with my email address. The graphs might make some of the points made in the text a bit easier to understand! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Yes please wymberley , I'l send you a pm with my email address. The graphs might make some of the points made in the text a bit easier to understand! babka, Confirm sent, hopefully will be clearer, please note, that was an example and not necessarily my choice. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 Babka, Lister, Hi, Chaps, Are you able to make any comments on my diatribe yet? Cheers, Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potshot Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 Moring all, There is no formal research project / paper in the offing. What we have seen was information coming back from the USA from shooters who have been experimenting with larger than traditional shot sizes, typically trying what we know as No5's for live quarry shooting. The reports that came out - all be they pretty anecdotal, was that No 5's were much more effective on live quarry. We are certainly seeing a significant increase in No5’s being used for home loading. Hope that helps, but let me know if there is anything more I can do. David David that is not correct. John Harradine commissioned some research that was carried out in Devon and was in collaboration with the Royal Military College in Shrivenham. You will need to look deeper into the BASC annals or ask John. The research dealt with shot size, choke, fibre versus plastic wad. One of the conclusions was that modern fibre wad outperformed plastic wad on nearly all but extreme instances of choke and/or shot size. That 5 shot was a better choice on pheasant than 6 shot. I would estimate this research was done about 10 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 So that would make it 5 years ago from post date then, as this post "is" after all from 2009. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.