Ballymac Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Here's the proposal, keepered ground of between 1500 to 3000 acres with partridge and pheasant either together or seperate. There will be woodcock snipe and wild duck available also. Depending on the amount of ground that is set out, this will determine the size of the syndicate, ranging from 5 to 10 guns. The number of birds released would be 200 - 250 for 5 man upto any amount of birds (within reason) probably 500 for a 10 man syndicate. This would be intended to be walked up shooting and would suit people who are interested in working their own dogs etc. There would be no restrictions on you in that you determine how often you shoot it. the keeper will feed the birds and look after vermin control etc. The land that is available varies from heather to mature forest clear fell, marshes, old unkept farmland (double high hedges)this is all to be confirmed and is negotiable. Now the question is HOW MUCH? What would be a reasonable amount to pay to have this, assuming that walked up shooting, working your own dog and smaller bags (than driven days) are the type of things that you are interested in. Appreciate your thoughts on this. I appreciate this is limited information, but based on this put a price on it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 hate to say it but to my mind that is unworkable. You mention a keeper and people having a free for all to shoot as often as they like it won't work. With game birds restrict it to say 10 days a year keep it walked up if that floats your boat and work out what your costs will be to work out the cost per gun. I'd suggest on a walked up day approx 8 guns and keep the costs under £100 a day each, a lot depends on how many birds you put down, whether you pay the keeper and also what the farmer will charge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballymac Posted November 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Agree that the shoot when you want policy is not a good idea, but the syndicate would agree that themselves.The keeper pays the farmer, if there is one involved, as a lot of it is forestry ground. The keeper is charging the syndicate, so if you want more birds it is at a greater cost. As regards shooting 10 days that would be plenty over the season, although there is potential to have days at ducks, days at snipe and woodcock only , partridge only and pheasant only to mix it up a bit. As regards costs there are none other than the price charged by the keeper. So al4x what price would you put on it assuming all other things were sorted and agreeed on. If there were 200 birds put down between 5 guns plus opportunity to shoot snipe woodcock and wild duck, what would be a fair price. £600 per gun £800, £1,000.? My initial thoughts would be that you would get 6 - 8 good days on the birds that would be put down and have the opportunity for another 1 -3 days atthe "wild" birds. So while you would have to do it yourself this would leave (or should) it less expensive than pure driven days. Put a price on it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 200 birds on that acreage is nothing so it would be very hard to say without any shooting experience of the land and how well you can hold birds / natural population. In your case sounds like the keeper will want to make money and whoever he pays for the land so really you need to know costs and have an idea what sort of return you are looking to achieve. Round us if you buy a day you are looking in the region of £21-23 per bird plus vat if your syndicate works out worse than that for the guns they will feel hard done by but if better then they will be far happier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docholiday Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 £600 if no beaters required and the small no of birds put down doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyboots Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 BALLYMAC you would be better to approach a farmer for a bit of moss/bog land and get a few more guns and throw a few hundred quid in each and buy your birds feed etc this would be a cheaper option than the 1 you are on about any of the gun clubs near me thats what they do 6 guns mayabe putting in 300quid each season to buy birds and feed and they get enough shootting this way to last each season plus theve a duck pond dug in the moss for wild duck then you get the bonus of woodcock, snipe pigeons etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballymac Posted November 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Hi Monkeyboots I did do that up to last season when the farmer at the centre of our club sold the land to an adjoining farmer who does not want us on his land. This was where our pens and duck pond was, so the club was broke up. We paid £100 and put more in if the feed run out. We put down a 200 birds, small club put was local. I was getting a lot out of it, not just shooting. That has all gone sadly. Around here there are plenty of lads who just go out for a walk, but are not interested in starting a club. Hi docholiday I reckoned on £600 This option of basically having your own club in a way has come up. Was thinking that if 200 birds were put down between 5 guns then 200/5= 40 birds. If you were out for 8 days and get (40/8 = 5) 5 birds each at £15 would equate to(£75x8)£600 I know this makes certain assumptions. On top of this there would the opportunity for woodcock snipe and wild duck, but with no guarantees. There is no need to assist keeper with pens, feeding etc, although he would accept help I'm sure.And yo are working your dog beating and picking up. I hope to get into a club next year if they agree to take on new members. This would be a better solution for me but am keeping my options open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docholiday Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Good luck hope it works out, you are trying to get some shooting organized and I wish you well doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 if you're banking on a 100% return you'll need a very good wild bird population, 60% round here tends to be about as good as it gets on pheasants, ducks though can be a lot better and we seem to get up to about 200% return Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sako751sg Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 200 birds on that acreage is extremely low.If you have a good number of wild birds to bolster that numbers,then it might not be too bad.You worked out that each gun,if there are 8,would get 40 birds.Considering the average is around shooting 50% of birds released then you can roughly halve your number to 20,and that would still be optimistic on that acreage.As someone has already said,the better option could be to take ground with a better mix of wild species on it,and therefore walked up days can be made up of all kinds of quarry,and that can make the shoots way more interesting.Cant help with the price,but i think the amount involved would be quite high for the return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballymac Posted November 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 this keeper currently runs an estate on the other side of the mountain and helps at another estate a few miles in the other direction. he currently reckons that he keeps call birds in pens all along the ground and with his feeding regime he would expect 80% returns, which he reckons he is currently getting. Now I have no way of knowing if he is getting this or not. Just looking for different views on this. i would expect 80% return on birds to be on the high side, but his claim is that he can keep the birds in the area although hass problems with pheasants wandering, but then who doesn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollie Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Have to agree with Monkeyboots. We put out 70 odd birds this season and we pay £100 at the start of the season and more for feeding if required. As for returns the best we ever achieved was 80% and that was last season; bear in mind that we have a few wild birds and we are very good at keeping vermin levels down, I think 100% return is a bit optimistic. My best advice would be a DIY shoot, lets face it the keeper is in it to make money so the chances are you will be paying premium. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweedledee Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 a local shoot which i intend to join next year puts down about 250 birds.i think it is around the 200 £ mark a year.that gets you duck and woodcock/partridge shooting also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballymac Posted November 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 I was a member of local club but it had to stop due to sale of land etc, was paying £100 + buy extra feed if needed had 150 birds released had woodcock shooting snipe and duck. If Icould get into other local clubs (waiting lists) I would prefer this, but this opportunity for next season has come up and I am considering it. To be honest if I could get into a local club I would make do with that and take a walked up day or two with this keeper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millrace Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 very optimistic with so few birds down to get such returns on such large area they walk for ulster.............lol well mine do!!! put 50 out very local for fun this year all gone last ceen bout 4/5 mile over road.....on reg shoot we do 750 birds with 7 guns over 11days max return of roughly 60 % and this in bout 60 acres of good holding ground......just cant cee how it would work for what sound like a lot of money...it would be hard shooting to get few birds,,,,any 2/300 bird down local shoots are bout 300 per gun more if more feed needed.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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