Diesel vs Petrol

[smiiithy]

In short:

Does anybody know the rough figure in terms of mileage a person would need to do in order to make diesel more economical than petrol? I know there are many factors including MPG, maintenance costs etc which are affected by which car is chosen but I'm trying to work out a rough guideline in my head.

 

 

The full story:

At the moment I'm driving a 2002 1.5 dCi Clio and am getting just under 60MPG which I am more than happy with. At the moment I do around 20K miles a year, costing around £1,700. I figure the average petrol might cost me an extra £1,000 a year.

 

My girlfriend has just applied for her provisional and will be starting driving lessons in early 2010. I expect that if she was driving her own car (hopefully this will happen in 2010) I might cut my mileage by up to 9K meaning that a petrol would be a completely viable option and would effectively be costing me no more fuel than I'm paying at the moment. Servicing cost isn't a huge concern since my mechanic is a good friend and labour normally comes free or in return for a few cans of John Smiths.

 

I'm looking for a change in car. I can't afford to insure anything over insurance group 15 due to my age. My Clio has been quite unreliable and I want something that's going to be fun, not cost me a fortune to run and insure and won’t break down all the time. I have no need for a massive car as I have no kids/dogs and would only need enough space to fit my decoying gear in and I'm willing to spend up to £4K.

 

Diesel or petrol?

[njc110381]

Can you get a Nissan X-trail for that kind of money? They look pretty decent for a gentle 4x4. If you want slightly more rugged maybe a Fourtrack?

 

My way of looking at it is that I do quite a low milage so I buy petrol. I have a V6 Golf and if I was to drive a long way I couldn't afford to run it but as I don't it's great fun! Diesels seem to cost a bit more to buy and service.

 

In a 4x4 I hate to contradict myself but the temperment (for want of a better word) of the diesel engine seems better. I'd much rather off road a Diesel because they offer greater engine braking and better low down torque. For plodding across a muddy field though that's not really too important. I'd say drive them both and decide for yourself. If you don't do many miles the running costs wont be that different.

[smiiithy]

Thanks for that njc110381. I think I would prefer a petrol driving experience unless it was a turbo diesel. *0-60 is one of the most important factors for me but it's trying to find the right balance of something that's nippy, but doesn't cost the earth to run and insure. I don't want it all one way if you see what I mean. This car will be for road purposes only though.

 

*EDIT: Acceleration is an important factor. The pleasure of having a turbo would be nice but due to economy and insurance would rule most petrols out.

Edited December 9, 2009 by smiiithy

[robmiller]

golf diesel all the way

[smiiithy]

Always been a major contender. It's got a good balance right in the middle of economy, performance, insurance cost and reliability.

 

2001 VOLKSWAGEN GOLF 1.9 GT TDi 115

MPG 53.3

0-60 10.3

Top speed 121

Insurance group 10

Insurance quote £746.75

Extra insurance cost £191.10

 

1999 VOLKSWAGEN Golf 1.9 GT TDi 110

MPG 54.5

0-60 10.6

Top speed 120

Insurance group 10E

Insurance quote £729.95

Extra insurance cost £174.30

 

2003 VOLKSWAGEN Golf 1.9 GT TDi 150

MPG 52

0-60 8.3

Top speed 134

Insurance group 13

Insurance quote £974.60

Extra insurance cost £418.95

 

golf diesel all the way

Edited December 9, 2009 by smiiithy

[rayo]

I have a old diesel Citroen zx R reg excellent on the juice, once the back seats folded down I get all my decoying gear in no bother , mind you I still have to carry the gear across fields etc

 

Maybe I just hit lucky because the last two old diesels I have had they have been no bother

[robmiller]

Hers does 58/59 on the motorway sitting at 90 all day long.

Excellent car.

I know you will laugh but dont cast aside a skoda octavia. Excellent car, cheap to buy, same engine. But all the toys

Whys your insurance so high?

[Imperfection]

I was always told you've got to keep a diesel car for atleast 3 years to recoup your money back because they cost more than their petrol equavelent.

 

I prefer diesel on the whole though and have driven one for last 10 years.Mines just an old Citroen ZX,but does on average 50mpg which is good considering its age and the engine is still perfect.I do have a brand new Citroen Despatch 2.0 petrol van for work though which is coverted to LPG and is quite rapid for a comercial vehicle,but it lacks the engine braking and torque you get with a diesel.Plus it only returns 22mpg on gas!

[dunganick]

Always been a major contender. It's got a good balance right in the middle of economy, performance, insurance cost and reliability.

 

2001 VOLKSWAGEN GOLF 1.9 GT TDi 115

MPG 53.3

0-60 10.3

Top speed 121

Insurance group 10

Insurance quote £746.75

Extra insurance cost £191.10

 

1999 VOLKSWAGEN Golf 1.9 GT TDi 110

MPG 54.5

0-60 10.6

Top speed 120

Insurance group 10E

Insurance quote £729.95

Extra insurance cost £174.30

 

 

 

 

These Golfs wont be much faster than the clio (depending on which variant you own)

 

I have a Clio DCI 80, its pretty nippy (considerably faster than the 65hp variant i owned previously), ive owned clio's nearly 3.5 yrs now and only had 1 issue. The road tax is only £35 and they are group 4-6/. Tyres are £50 a corner tops and it only needs servicing once a year. Motoring doesnt come any cheaper than this.

 

If i had 4k to spend on a slightly larger car with a bit more go i would probably be looking for a Fabia VRS. Yes this is VAG so very similar to the Polo/Ibiza however they are cheap, 130 hp diesel engine, which has potential with a cheap remap to take it to 160 (as the seat cupras run), i believe they are £160ish a year tax and group 11?.

 

Alternatively accept you will pay masses of fuel bills, tax, insurance, maintenance (tires and bits that break) and buy a disco or defender.

 

At the moment with diesel being the same price as petrol, its pretty pointless buying petrol. Diesels may have a higher initial purchase price, but they hold value just as well. So you will get the money back in the resale. In the mean time normally you will pay lower Tax and save on MPG.

[smiiithy]

Edited to add:

 

2003 VOLKSWAGEN Golf 1.9 GT TDi 150

MPG 52

0-60 8.3

Top speed 134

Insurance group 13

Insurance quote £974.60

Extra insurance cost £418.95

 

The Clio and the Volkswagen can both be very easily chipped or do a remap to change it from one BHP to another, provided there are no physical differences between the two models. My Clio is the 65 and is half as quick as the Golf TDi 150.

 

These Golfs wont be much faster than the clio (depending on which variant you own)

 

I have a Clio DCI 80, its pretty nippy (considerably faster than the 65hp variant i owned previously), ive owned clio's nearly 3.5 yrs now and only had 1 issue. The road tax is only £35 and they are group 4-6/. Tyres are £50 a corner tops and it only needs servicing once a year. Motoring doesnt come any cheaper than this.

 

If i had 4k to spend on a slightly larger car with a bit more go i would probably be looking for a Fabia VRS. Yes this is VAG so very similar to the Polo/Ibiza however they are cheap, 130 hp diesel engine, which has potential with a cheap remap to take it to 160 (as the seat cupras run), i believe they are £160ish a year tax and group 11?.

 

Alternatively accept you will pay masses of fuel bills, tax, insurance, maintenance (tires and bits that break) and buy a disco or defender.

 

At the moment with diesel being the same price as petrol, its pretty pointless buying petrol. Diesels may have a higher initial purchase price, but they hold value just as well. So you will get the money back in the resale. In the mean time normally you will pay lower Tax and save on MPG.

Edited December 9, 2009 by smiiithy

[Axe]

You will need to factor in serving costs as Diesel is more expensive to service and on older cars, require more frequent servicing. I have always considered that Diesel makes more sense the larger the car size you choose and or high mileage.

[smiiithy]

I appreciate what your saying about the Octavia and wouldn't scratch it off the list it just because of the Skoda badge but I just don't think the Octavia is for me.

 

Insurance is high because I'm 21, male, have 3 points and an insurance claim Blow out on my 206 - write off.

 

 

Hers does 58/59 on the motorway sitting at 90 all day long.

Excellent car.

I know you will laugh but dont cast aside a skoda octavia. Excellent car, cheap to buy, same engine. But all the toys

Whys your insurance so high?

[al4x]

what about a clio sport can you insure it? fun and economy isn't bad

[smiiithy]

I would have had one if I hadn't of had a Clio already. I fancy a change that's all. My parents just bought a new Clio too.

 

RENAULT CLIO SPORT V6 2946cc 3 Door 2001----- £2029.85

RENAULT CLIO SPORT CUP 182 1998cc 3 DOOR 2004----- £1067.00

RENAULT CLIO SPORT 182 1998cc 3 Door 2003-----£1067.00

 

what about a clio sport can you insure it? fun and economy isn't bad

Edited December 9, 2009 by smiiithy

[al4x]

it would be a change they actually go forward quite rapidly compared to their diesel equivalents

 

Golfs go ok but they're still pretty boing to drive, the steering feedback etc is dull as it comes but I guess they are German so its to be expected

[ryantidgwell]

i used to have a vw bora 1.9 tdi and that went like **** of a stick ! really fast car for a diesel , i then got a 2 litre petrol turbo passat that was even quicker and cheaper to insure than the bora for some reason ,

[jackinbox99]

You will need to factor in serving costs as Diesel is more expensive to service and on older cars, require more frequent servicing.

 

Have to disagree with that. I have a 2001 Golf GT TDI 115, same one as on the list smithhy posted. Ive done 80,000 miles in it over the last 2 1/2 years. I have the car serviced every 10,000 miles (which is more than it really needs) and a full service (i do it myself) costs me less than £50. £30 of that is the oil as the high performance VW PD engines need a special oil. Appart from that the only bits ive replaced are the brake disks & pads every 80,000 miles (costs me £120 in total for front & back discs / pads) and last year I replaced the front wishbones as they had done 140,000 miles from new. (cost me about £100). I use dunlop OEM tyres and they last 40,000miles. So my running costs per year are very cheap.

 

Compared to servicing my GF`s petrol GTI, my diesel is much cheaper.

 

My car has done nearly 160,000 miles now. Depreciation wise, ive lost about £500 a year, insurance is cheap for me and I normaly get 56mpg average over 600miles. Best mpg ive had on a single trip was 71.2mpg over a 35mile journey door-to-door including roundabouts, stopping at junctions etc. And I regularly get 60->65mpg on long journeys.

 

Performance wise, its a fraction slower than a petrol GTI to 60, but above 60 the torque really kicks in. When overtaking from 70-> upwards, in 6th gear, it just pulls like mad.

 

A local tuning place can cheap my 115 to 160bhp for around 350quid if i required more performance and it doesnt affect economy much.

 

I got my ex GF a brand new Clio 1.5 DCi a couple of years back. It was the 106bhp one. It certainly was slower than my golf and nowhere near as smooth or comfortable to drive.

 

You can pick my golf up now for 2500->3000quid, they have big boot spaces, hold their value well and are a good all round cheap car which will go on forever.

 

If you need something bigger, how about a passat tdi?

[Lord Geordie]

I have a 2000 Peugeot 406 HDI does about 50MPG on a run.

 

Had an Astra before that 1.4 PETROL did 50+mpg on a run

 

Had an astra 1.7 Diesel did about 60mpg

 

and a 1.7 Volvo 340gl doing 53mpg to the gallon on petrol

 

Depends on what you want the car for.

 

Just as a runaround then Petrol. Reason being Cheaper servicing cheaper fuel.

 

Reason I have the Diesel is I need it for towing heavy loads. Costing me an arm and a leg in keeping it on the road though. NEVER had a car like it for things needing repaired.

 

Spent over £1000 in as little over a year just on new parts.

[ph5172]

I have a TVR - Does about 16MPG brilliant car... and brilliant for BP Nectar points

I also have a Volvo Diesel for a day to day run around, its knocking out 168bhp and i get about 45mpg

 

the Mrs has an X type and thats doing about 25MPG,

On a recent trip to the coast i was working so had to drive down and meet Mrs PH i did there, back and the driving to and fro while we were there on a tank, she took 2 to get there and back.

 

If i have to grab a set of keys, i strangely enough always grab the Volvo

 

Would i have another Diesel - Yes

Would i sell a car to buy a Diesel .... no id keep it until it was knackered - i had the same dilema with the Jag to LPG and i worked out it would take me 2 years to break even (well Mrs PH)

[smiiithy]

I spoke to my mechanic today and he's said that with your model of car my servicing cost would increase a maximum of £10. I think I can just about manage that. If yours was remaped it would mop the floor with every car I've been looking at.

 

What age and milage should I be looking at for 2.5 - 3K?

 

Have to disagree with that. I have a 2001 Golf GT TDI 115, same one as on the list smithhy posted. Ive done 80,000 miles in it over the last 2 1/2 years. I have the car serviced every 10,000 miles (which is more than it really needs) and a full service (i do it myself) costs me less than £50. £30 of that is the oil as the high performance VW PD engines need a special oil. Appart from that the only bits ive replaced are the brake disks & pads every 80,000 miles (costs me £120 in total for front & back discs / pads) and last year I replaced the front wishbones as they had done 140,000 miles from new. (cost me about £100). I use dunlop OEM tyres and they last 40,000miles. So my running costs per year are very cheap.

 

Compared to servicing my GF`s petrol GTI, my diesel is much cheaper.

 

My car has done nearly 160,000 miles now. Depreciation wise, ive lost about £500 a year, insurance is cheap for me and I normaly get 56mpg average over 600miles. Best mpg ive had on a single trip was 71.2mpg over a 35mile journey door-to-door including roundabouts, stopping at junctions etc. And I regularly get 60->65mpg on long journeys.

 

Performance wise, its a fraction slower than a petrol GTI to 60, but above 60 the torque really kicks in. When overtaking from 70-> upwards, in 6th gear, it just pulls like mad.

 

A local tuning place can cheap my 115 to 160bhp for around 350quid if i required more performance and it doesnt affect economy much.

 

I got my ex GF a brand new Clio 1.5 DCi a couple of years back. It was the 106bhp one. It certainly was slower than my golf and nowhere near as smooth or comfortable to drive.

 

You can pick my golf up now for 2500->3000quid, they have big boot spaces, hold their value well and are a good all round cheap car which will go on forever.

 

If you need something bigger, how about a passat tdi?

[rjimmer]

I've got a Polo 1.4 petrol and last year I was doing about 500 miles a week on motorways. Always over 60 mpg (usually 66 ish), and on one run an amazing 81mpg.

I've got a Peugeot Partner van with a 2.0 Diesel HDi engine and that goes really well but I have to be really light on the pedal to get anything like I do from the Polo.

 

VWs are popular down here near all the salt sea air because they don't rust like some. Up north, all the salted roads might be a similar consideration.

 

P.S. The van is terrible on wet ground, I presume it's because of the weight of the engine.

Edited December 9, 2009 by rjimmer

[smiiithy]

The Clio's given me 80-odd on motorway journey's but I don't think it's fair to count that as a combined MPG. When I say I get just under 60 that's me reset the clock and left it for a couple of months

Edited December 10, 2009 by smiiithy

[jackinbox99]

I spoke to my mechanic today and he's said that with your model of car my servicing cost would increase a maximum of £10. I think I can just about manage that. If yours was remaped it would mop the floor with every car I've been looking at.

 

What age and milage should I be looking at for 2.5 - 3K?

 

Why would it cost £10 more for a service? I always do a full service whether my car needs it or not, so air filter, fuel filter, oil, oil filter, pollen filter are the main bits. A petrol car would need the same bits replacing at a service, PLUS spark plugs. So, with the plugs and the extra time to fit them it would cost more than a diesel. Unless of course, the oil he`s using for the petrol is cheaper, which maybe the case, but if he used the same quality oil, then the oil would cost the same.

 

Have a look on autotrader and see whats out there. My mate saw a mint 2002 GT TDI 130bhp 3door on there for about 3k if i remember rightly, with around 80k on the clock. Mileage wise, its upto you if you get one with 100k on, or a low mileage one. Like all cars, you find that when they reach 70k you need to do the cambelt and usually the brakes are in need of replacing then. So, you could get a "Low mileage" 60k one, but have to forkout 700quid on those bits at a garage, or get one with higher mileage, cheaper and maybe they have already had those bits done.

 

EDIT: - if you are thinking of buying one, see if you can find someone who has the VAG software. I have it and you can plug VW into your laptop and it does the full diagnostic of the ecu and tells you of any problems it finds.

Edited December 9, 2009 by jackinbox99

[smiiithy]

I asked him if it would cost more for a service of a PD Golf than my diesel Clio and he said he can't see it costing more than a tenner more. Oil and parts more expensive than for the Clio I'm guessing.

 

I've been looking for a while but it takes time to find a bargain. A 110ps or 115p would probably work out cheaper on the insurance but the 150ps is pretty rapid. Do you know if that remap you were talking about was a full ECU remap or just a plug in chip? Where is this guy who does them?

 

I have a friend with a diagnostic computer and would be taking my mechanic with me to any car purchase if he was available.

 

Why would it cost £10 more for a service? I always do a full service whether my car needs it or not, so air filter, fuel filter, oil, oil filter, pollen filter are the main bits. A petrol car would need the same bits replacing at a service, PLUS spark plugs. So, with the plugs and the extra time to fit them it would cost more than a diesel. Unless of course, the oil he`s using for the petrol is cheaper, which maybe the case, but if he used the same quality oil, then the oil would cost the same.

 

Have a look on autotrader and see whats out there. My mate saw a mint 2002 GT TDI 130bhp 3door on there for about 3k if i remember rightly, with around 80k on the clock. Mileage wise, its upto you if you get one with 100k on, or a low mileage one. Like all cars, you find that when they reach 70k you need to do the cambelt and usually the brakes are in need of replacing then. So, you could get a "Low mileage" 60k one, but have to forkout 700quid on those bits at a garage, or get one with higher mileage, cheaper and maybe they have already had those bits done.

 

EDIT: - if you are thinking of buying one, see if you can find someone who has the VAG software. I have it and you can plug VW into your laptop and it does the full diagnostic of the ecu and tells you of any problems it finds.

Edited December 10, 2009 by smiiithy

[smiiithy]

This one is a bit high mileage but

 

http://search.autotrader.co.uk/es-uk/www/c...cleRegLetter=02

 

I'm entitled to £50 discount from http://www.dieseltuner.co.uk aswell who do a £295 plug in chip for the Volkswagen 1.9 TDI 150Bhp to take it to to take it to 190Bhp. That would be ******* ridiculous :unsure:

Edited December 9, 2009 by smiiithy