Jim Sarakun Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 As I get older and softer, I feel I need reassurance and more information as to why you guys so persecute our only large predator, the Fox. I can understand how years ago, in the age of allotments and when everybody had a few chickens and geese in their back yard to feed the family, that the Fox was a pest. Not so now I dont think, now every body gets their meat in a polystyrene tray from Tesco or whatever local shed/wharehouse they use. As this is a public worlwide forum/web site, here is your oportunity to tell the world why it is so. Why is the Fox so vehemently persecuted in our country? A beautiful creature it is, and so often this has been shown with pictures on this site. A skilled natural predator, and adaptor to circimstance, I have seen them feeding from the bins at our local Mc Donalds and roaming in the cities of this fabulous country of ours, it must be for food. I do understand the need for Fox culling where livelihoods are involved, such as Pheasant rearing for shoots around the country, which employs thousands of people and Fox hunting with the hounds thingy, which this government has now made illegal. Shame on them. I just can not get my head round the way some members are so gunghoe in their posts, all stored in my PC should you wish to judge, about killing this beautiful predator. Many times over the years my buddy and I have had this beautiful creature in our sights, but just could not pull the trigger. I suppose it is the odds against it that predetermines the outcome, beauty overcomes the beast in us. So all you guys who are killing Foxes around a shoot near you, fair play to you, but those of you who kill one just because it is there....Why? Do please help to put us back on track. Be aware a shamble reason will be vigourously defended, for the Foxes sake you understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chandelierman Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 (edited) Not me it looks too much like mans best friend. I don't know how many foxes there are but i live in essex and twice a month i travel to London,on my journey i must see at least 20 - 30 foxes as road kill,so i see no need for them to be shot. Edited January 7, 2010 by chandelierman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyb Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 Man up a bit! They cause me, and the landowners in this area a serious amount of trouble! Take last year... for example 85 dead pheasants out of a 100 in a release pen - that was one nights work 32 dead chickens, ducks and geese from a friends small holding - again just one nights work And just last week.... 10 dead chickens from ANOTHER friends small holding - in a night. They are shot on sight here, and I will continue to do so... What you have to remember, is yes, they are great creatures - but other than man, they have NO other natural predators Besides - I'm willing to bet that more are killed on the roads, than are shot in this country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philm Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 I havent shot one yet! Does'nt the amount killed on the roads tell you that there must be to many? They where never seen in towns, now people see them all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Sarakun Posted January 7, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 (edited) Not me it looks too much like mans best friend.I don't know how many foxes there are but i live in essex and twice a month i travel to London,on my journey i must see at least 20 - 30 foxes as road kill,so i see no need for them to be shot. Good for you chandelierman. I too see a lot of these beasts dead on the side of the road. I have also seen them walking nonchalantly, with pedestrians, down Regent Street in London, in the early hours, about club kick out time. Probably looking for discarded burgers. Hows that for adaptation? Edited January 7, 2010 by Jim Sarakun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Sarakun Posted January 7, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 Man up a bit! They cause me, and the landowners in this area a serious amount of trouble! Take last year... for example 85 dead pheasants out of a 100 in a release pen - that was one nights work 32 dead chickens, ducks and geese from a friends small holding - again just one nights work And just last week.... 10 dead chickens from ANOTHER friends small holding - in a night. They are shot on sight here, and I will continue to do so... What you have to remember, is yes, they are great creatures - but other than man, they have NO other natural predators Besides - I'm willing to bet that more are killed on the roads, than are shot in this country. I understand your predicament garyb, but feel that as you are breeding Pheasants for a shoot, and for profit maybe, and your friend who keeps poultry in probably a known hunting area for Foxes, surely making the pens where you keep these animals more secure, would make sense. The Fox has as much right to tread this earth as you and I and they do. We have the technology to keep them out, they have none, only the desire to fill an empty stomach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyb Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 (edited) I should mention that all 3 of those examples, the birds were protected by 7-8 foot fencing, and electric wires... Our Pheasants, are bred for both sport, and too put food on the table of the syndicate members - we do not & can not, shoot for a profit. If they want to get in - they will either climb, or dig under! What you have to remember, is that we have to live side by side these predators - and we are top of the food chain. Foxes are not exterminated. They are controlled. Edited January 7, 2010 by garyb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth Stalker Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 Agree with all of the above You say that everyone gets there meat cellophane wrapped from the supermarket these days, not so here! And what you may or may not be aware of, when Charlie gets into a release pen or chicken run he wont cease the killing frenzy until the last bird is dead Bagging up those 85 birds (most of which I reared from collected incubated eggs) made up my decision. If just one or two were taken for food then I'm sure the persecution of them wouldn't be so intense, but as Gary said they're shot on site round here. All that said I do admire them for what they are, this countries top natural predator. SS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyb Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 Jim, Can I suggest you watch this... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7458007.stm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth Stalker Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 Cheers Gaz Never seen that clip before, just about sums it up. SS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth Stalker Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 You up for a shine round tonight Gary? Feeding yesterday afternoon, Charlies been around the pen again, found 2 patches of feathers SS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyb Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 You up for a shine round tonight Gary? Feeding yesterday afternoon, Charlies been around the pen again, found 2 patches of feathers SS PM sent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth Stalker Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 I would also like to add that most of the 100 plus foxes myself & Garyb shot last year were around land that has game or fowl on, that land backs on to a large town which is the breeding ground for the foxes. The old saying couldn't be truer where we are "shoot one fox, two come to the funeral" SS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardo Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 i'm up for tonight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Sarakun Posted January 7, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 Watched the vid garyb and agree with the comentary that Foxes can be managed. Around livestock I rekon the Fox is fair game, though I do question that farmers security for his hens. I am concerned with stealthstalkers comment about not buying celophane wrapped meat around here though. So if by that statement , you kill for the pot, can you honestly say that after you have shot the one you are going to eat, you will walk away and not shoot any more, even if there are plenty more available to shoot? A bit like the Fox, and us, I think that killing frenzy will overtake you, and you will shoot as many as you can, because they are there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digit Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 Jim, Can I suggest you watch this... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7458007.stm Great bit of film, what people got to realise it's farmers like that supply the likes of tesco's, and foxes are causing alot of damage to they're business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyb Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 I've just got off the phone to one of my land owners! 3 ducks gone over night, 2 off them left headless in the coop.... Some more 223 action tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sako751sg Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 I also like to see foxes,and preferably through a scope as a v-max rips through him.Maybe you have not seen the damage foxes do to the species down the food chain a bit.I dont want foxes wiped out,but i do my bit to keep the balance a bit more in favour for the wee things in the world.Maybe if you had woke up one summer and went to feed the stuff in the chicken run,and find 43 birds dead from week old chicks to a peahen that was sitting on eggs,the only survivor being an old greylag gander,then you might have an idea why the need to control them is there.As the top of the food chain,dont kid yourself that the small amount of roadkill foxes is anything but a minute amount in the big picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlander Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 Anyone rearing outdoor livestock in the countryside be that pigs, sheep, chickens or game birds not to mention wild stocks has cause to keep the number of foxes under control. Despite all the culling they're great survivors and I don't think we're going to cull them to anywhere near extinction. Just because we are hunters doesn't mean we don't respect our quarry in fact I'd suggest as hunters we do more than most! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth Stalker Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 Jim We've a small syndicate, put down 500 birds & are lucky if we get back 50% We shoot 8 days a season with an average bag of about 30 birds, shared out between 10 guns and a few of the beaters, I can assure you there are no exess birds on our shoot. SS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 Excess birds are why most people have a freezer we've had 16 foxes so far from 500 acres and they are back every year shoot the same number or more from the same land, If you don't control them you actually have less healthy foxes as get too many and they compete for the available food and tend to get disease ridden and mange. The land we shoot is again on the edge of a town so they tend to spread out from there where they have free run and there is no sign of shooting them to extinction. My local estate has had close to 100 this year so far which is a huge number for it yet in yesterdays fresh snow there were fox tracks almost everywhere I walked. They are top of the food chain so only predated upon by people whether its with guns or cars the end result is the same and we've seen increased numbers rather than declining ones. Bear in mind the ground nesting birds and hares etc that decline in areas where you have high populations, they do well on our shoot as we help with the predator control and no doubt certainly the ground nesting birds would do better if we could also control the black and white things Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Sarakun Posted January 7, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 Anyone rearing outdoor livestock in the countryside be that pigs, sheep, chickens or game birds not to mention wild stocks has cause to keep the number of foxes under control. Despite all the culling they're great survivors and I don't think we're going to cull them to anywhere near extinction. Just because we are hunters doesn't mean we don't respect our quarry in fact I'd suggest as hunters we do more than most! A levelling post Highlander and I respect what you garyb and stealthstalker have contributed. Wanton killing of this adaptable predator is not on the top of my list. Should it predate any of my shoots and I get the instruction to kill it I probably would. Until then I will watch and admire it for the survivor it has become. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pavman Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 As I get older and softer, I feel I need reassurance and more information as to why you guys so persecute our only large predator, the Fox. I can understand how years ago, in the age of allotments and when everybody had a few chickens and geese in their back yard to feed the family, that the Fox was a pest. Not so now I dont think, now every body gets their meat in a polystyrene tray from Tesco or whatever local shed/wharehouse they use. As this is a public worlwide forum/web site, here is your oportunity to tell the world why it is so. Why is the Fox so vehemently persecuted in our country? A beautiful creature it is, and so often this has been shown with pictures on this site. A skilled natural predator, and adaptor to circimstance, I have seen them feeding from the bins at our local Mc Donalds and roaming in the cities of this fabulous country of ours, it must be for food. I do understand the need for Fox culling where livelihoods are involved, such as Pheasant rearing for shoots around the country, which employs thousands of people and Fox hunting with the hounds thingy, which this government has now made illegal. Shame on them. I just can not get my head round the way some members are so gunghoe in their posts, all stored in my PC should you wish to judge, about killing this beautiful predator. Many times over the years my buddy and I have had this beautiful creature in our sights, but just could not pull the trigger. I suppose it is the odds against it that predetermines the outcome, beauty overcomes the beast in us. So all you guys who are killing Foxes around a shoot near you, fair play to you, but those of you who kill one just because it is there....Why? Do please help to put us back on track. Be aware a shamble reason will be vigourously defended, for the Foxes sake you understand. Jim let me ask a Question If a man walks into your front room and takes your dinner because he is hungry what would you do? if he did it the next day and took all your meals what would you do? A Fox will do just that to the farmer (and others) take his dinner (chickens/Fezants) if you catch my drift...... You may be afforded a romantic view others are not so lucky. Fox numbers must be controlled heck even the RSPCA shoot Foxes (they don’t like you to know) Ferretboy 111 is an expert on Partridge and he will tell you 50% of all losses is to the Fox, left uncontrolled there would be NO Ground rearing birds left in very short time, The end result being the loss of many species to the predation of one. Fox shooters shoot to control not eliminate, we give nature a helping hand when things get out of balance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Sarakun Posted January 7, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 Excess birds are why most people have a freezer we've had 16 foxes so far from 500 acres and they are back every year shoot the same number or more from the same land, If you don't control them you actually have less healthy foxes as get too many and they compete for the available food and tend to get disease ridden and mange. The land we shoot is again on the edge of a town so they tend to spread out from there where they have free run and there is no sign of shooting them to extinction. My local estate has had close to 100 this year so far which is a huge number for it yet in yesterdays fresh snow there were fox tracks almost everywhere I walked. They are top of the food chain so only predated upon by people whether its with guns or cars the end result is the same and we've seen increased numbers rather than declining ones. Bear in mind the ground nesting birds and hares etc that decline in areas where you have high populations, they do well on our shoot as we help with the predator control and no doubt certainly the ground nesting birds would do better if we could also control the black and white things What, Badgers? Yes, a couple of farmers have commented on these where Oz and I shoot. Protected species though, can't do anything about them. So lets start a real cafuffle, predatory birds. ALL the farmers who's farms we shoot are beginning to comment on how many there are. I agree, and have posted on here how I have witnessed them zapping Sparrows and the like off my bird table. Maybe it's time for a cull. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatstand Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 "If a man walks into your front room and takes your dinner because he is hungry what would you do? if he did it the next day and took all your meals what would you do?" Lock my door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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