killing Foxes

[sako751sg]

Excess birds are why most people have a freezer

 

we've had 16 foxes so far from 500 acres and they are back every year shoot the same number or more from the same land, If you don't control them you actually have less healthy foxes as get too many and they compete for the available food and tend to get disease ridden and mange. The land we shoot is again on the edge of a town so they tend to spread out from there where they have free run and there is no sign of shooting them to extinction. My local estate has had close to 100 this year so far which is a huge number for it yet in yesterdays fresh snow there were fox tracks almost everywhere I walked. They are top of the food chain so only predated upon by people whether its with guns or cars the end result is the same and we've seen increased numbers rather than declining ones.

Bear in mind the ground nesting birds and hares etc that decline in areas where you have high populations, they do well on our shoot as we help with the predator control and no doubt certainly the ground nesting birds would do better if we could also control the black and white things

 

The badgers are every bit as bad as the fox,and to see a nights work from them is sickening.And all these head in the sand muppets that think otherwise,just because they havent seen it,want to wisen up big style.I think the badgers days in protection is numbered,and i will be delighted when they are legal quarry as again it will be to the benefit of the wee things in life that need a hand.

[Stealth Stalker]

"If a man walks into your front room and takes your dinner because he is hungry what would you do? if he did it the next day and took all your meals what would you do?"

 

Lock my door.

But what if that man was as cunning and sly as a....fox and could pick your locks?

[sako751sg]

But what if that man was as cunning and sly as a....fox and could pick your locks?

 

Then i would set a snare for the tramp,and keep the antis happy by checking it once a day.

[al4x]

What, Badgers? Yes, a couple of farmers have commented on these where Oz and I shoot. Protected species though, can't do anything about them. So lets start a real cafuffle, predatory birds. ALL the farmers who's farms we shoot are beginning to comment on how many there are. I agree, and have posted on here how I have witnessed them zapping Sparrows and the like off my bird table. Maybe it's time for a cull.

 

 

yup protected, one of my local keepers was on a shoot about 15 years ago when there was a study done in connection with the RSPB to monitor an area and one next door, one had badgers controlled and one didn't both were shooting areas so had other vermin controlled and guess what very un surprisingly his turned out far better for ground nesting birds. It never made the light of day as the other party was pro badger and trying to proove they didn't affect things

Predatory birds well I'm sure we've seen a decline in the smaller ones that take song birds, I used to see a lot of sparrowhawks and Kestrels but these days don't seem to see any where near as many as say 5 years ago.

[Hatstand]

I heed your point Stealth Stalker.

 

Veering off slightly there was a program on dogs last night on two I think, and the russians have been breeding tame silver foxes for fifty years to see how wolves may have been domesticated in the first place and the woman in charge made an interesting statement.

 

She said tame foxes are better than dogs because their are as loyal and intelligent as a dog but as independent as a cat.

I am not suggesting we all get pet foxes but I am curious to see how such an animal would behave with me.

 

With dogs you are the master, with cats you know they like you but you are more on a level field when it comes to who's in charge, ( with Bengal cats you are inferior but thats a another story).

I am quite intrigued by the thought of a free thinking dog.

 

Anybody else see it?

[Jim Sarakun]

Jim

 

let me ask a Question

 

If a man walks into your front room and takes your dinner because he is hungry what would you do? if he did it the next day and took all your meals what would you do?

 

A Fox will do just that to the farmer (and others) take his dinner (chickens/Fezants) if you catch my drift...... You may be afforded a romantic view others are not so lucky. Fox numbers must be controlled heck even the RSPCA shoot Foxes (they don’t like you to know)

 

Ferretboy 111 is an expert on Partridge and he will tell you 50% of all losses is to the Fox, left uncontrolled there would be NO Ground rearing birds left in very short time, The end result being the loss of many species to the predation of one.

 

Fox shooters shoot to control not eliminate, we give nature a helping hand when things get out of balance

 

Yes yes and yes pavman. I remember when Foxes had to be reported to the council for extermination, they were an abomination. Not so now me thinks. Times have changed. In this country most shot game goes abroad, the English don't want it. I am talking from my experience of the land I shoot. It all goes to Belgium or France.

 

I agree with garyb and stealthstalker that where livelihoods are involved culling has to take place. Just killing one because it is there doesn't cut the ice. Graphic pictures and documentation I find abhorent. "Control and not eliminate" is where I'm at. A romantic I may be, though wanton killing of any species is to me, not in the order of things. Hell, my buddies and I are laying off the Pigeons because of their desperation in this cold snap.

 

Recently posted were some pictures of a Fox taking the scent and then off on the hoof for a meal. I feel for that animal, because the next corner he may find a bullet, not a meal. Equilibrium, a balance, is in my veiw, the order of the next generation..

[sako751sg]

Yes yes and yes pavman. I remember when Foxes had to be reported to the council for extermination, they were an abomination. Not so now me thinks. Times have changed. In this country most shot game goes abroad, the English don't want it. I am talking from my experience of the land I shoot. It all goes to Belgium or France.

 

I agree with garyb and stealthstalker that where livelihoods are involved culling has to take place. Just killing one because it is there doesn't cut the ice. Graphic pictures and documentation I find abhorent. "Control and not eliminate" is where I'm at. A romantic I may be, though wanton killing of any species is to me, not in the order of things. Hell, my buddies and I are laying off the Pigeons because of their desperation in this cold snap.

 

Recently posted were some pictures of a Fox taking the scent and then off on the hoof for a meal. I feel for that animal, because the next corner he may find a bullet, not a meal. Equilibrium, a balance, is in my veiw, the order of the next generation..

 

Not too sure what you have been smoking and maybe you are of the woodstock generation,but two of your points are very strange and i cant believe a fellow country sportsman cant get a grip of what is being said.You say where livelyhoods at are involved then culling has to take place.Try thinking that culling has to take place for us to enjoy a far more variation of species to thrive.I actually think you are taking the **** with this thread,as if you dont realise what state our ground game and ground nesting birds would be in without control then something is wrong with you.As for saying just killing one because it is there doesnt cut the ice.When else do you shoot it,when its not there??Every fox i see gets shot,because unfortunately i havent got chrystal balls that let me know which ones dine at burger king and which ones dine on our every decreasing wild species like larks,pippets,partridges and yellowhammers but to name but a few.

[Robby22]

Speaking as a keeper on a smallish farm shoot, I think foxes by their very nature are marvellous animals and are nice to see-However the damage the do can be quite catastrophic (i.e getting in to pens etc etc), and for the last 2 or 3 years we have culled 50 foxes-give or take 2 or 3, theyre numbers never seem to lessen, and I think whilst theyre numbers to seem to stay consistent then they should be kept to a reasonable level otherwise what would keep theyre numbers down-since they have no other natural predators?

 

Just my take on it!

 

Robby22

[inthedark]

I shoot them, because an artificialy high number of game birds = an artificialy high number of foxes. If they were left to get on with it it would be impossible to put a days shooting on. Its quite frustrating really cos there's always some about no matter how hard you try (5 nights a week, every week). If Charlie nails 2 game birds every week during the shooting season he's cost you £1,000 and if the number of sitting birds taken of the nest and the rest of the year gets added in it could be 5 times this or more. Beautiful, clever and adaptable they can be unless they're dying from mange, vicious, merciless killers they certainly are.

[Jim Sarakun]

Well sako751sg you are clearly on the pot and not I. Though I bow to your superior wisdom as my only experience is from the grounds I shoot. If Foxes are not devouring the Game on the largest property I shoot,( I use this as a guideline, as the smaller properties are agriculture, no syndicates involved), they are not shot on sight.

 

 

The few that are shot, ones that come too close to the game pens, are opened up, to see what they are feeding on. If by the said contents, they do not appear to be eating the Pheasants, they are left alone. A conservationist view if ever I saw one, and a good one too. Equilibrium springs to mind.

 

The Estate doesn't bother with game on the ground, like Larks, Yellow Hammers and Pippets as there is no money to be made in those, and partridges are left to fend for themselves, but they do release English Partridge anually, because they can afford it I presume, but no one is allowed to shoot them, EVER, another conservation thing, and I am glad to see it. Flocks of 20 to 50 are now common place, and a joy to observe.

 

I do think that our ground game and nesting birds would fare quite well without the interference of man, but then who am I? I just go there to shoot the Pigeons.

 

You can pass me that spliff now.

[pavman]

Yes yes and yes pavman.

 

 

err as you agree with me whats your problem

 

I can see this growing arms and legs

Edited January 7, 2010 by pavman

[Blackbart]

Well sako751sg you are clearly on the pot and not I. Though I bow to your superior wisdom as my only experience is from the grounds I shoot. If Foxes are not devouring the Game on the largest property I shoot,( I use this as a guideline, as the smaller properties are agriculture, no syndicates involved), they are not shot on sight.

 

 

The few that are shot, ones that come too close to the game pens, are opened up, to see what they are feeding on. If by the said contents, they do not appear to be eating the Pheasants, they are left alone. A conservationist view if ever I saw one, and a good one too. Equilibrium springs to mind.

 

The Estate doesn't bother with game on the ground, like Larks, Yellow Hammers and Pippets as there is no money to be made in those, and partridges are left to fend for themselves, but they do release English Partridge anually, because they can afford it I presume, but no one is allowed to shoot them, EVER, another conservation thing, and I am glad to see it. Flocks of 20 to 50 are now common place, and a joy to observe.

 

I do think that our ground game and nesting birds would fare quite well without the interference of man, but then who am I? I just go there to shoot the Pigeons.

 

You can pass me that spliff now.

 

After writing that tripe i think you already have the spliff !

 

 

 

Autopsy's on foxes....and then if no gamebirds are found you leave them alone sorry to break the news but after an autopsy they probably wont cause you any more trouble .

 

I think you are winding people up now aswell.And you are starting to sound like you have not got a clue what you are talking about.

[sako751sg]

Well sako751sg you are clearly on the pot and not I. Though I bow to your superior wisdom as my only experience is from the grounds I shoot. If Foxes are not devouring the Game on the largest property I shoot,( I use this as a guideline, as the smaller properties are agriculture, no syndicates involved), they are not shot on sight.

 

 

The few that are shot, ones that come too close to the game pens, are opened up, to see what they are feeding on. If by the said contents, they do not appear to be eating the Pheasants, they are left alone. A conservationist view if ever I saw one, and a good one too. Equilibrium springs to mind.

 

The Estate doesn't bother with game on the ground, like Larks, Yellow Hammers and Pippets as there is no money to be made in those, and partridges are left to fend for themselves, but they do release English Partridge anually, because they can afford it I presume, but no one is allowed to shoot them, EVER, another conservation thing, and I am glad to see it. Flocks of 20 to 50 are now common place, and a joy to observe.

 

I do think that our ground game and nesting birds would fare quite well without the interference of man, but then who am I? I just go there to shoot the Pigeons.

 

You can pass me that spliff now.

 

Jim,you are the best advert for a new Walt Disney animation if ever i saw one.To shoot a fox,and then leave it alone is very good of whoever does it,although i dont think a fox will have much of a life after being shot,then disembowelled to reveal the contents.Im hoping all this is done under anesthetic,or else the antis might get a tad cross.I dont give a flying **** if your estate cares about larks ect ect.That estate isnt a conservation minded place obviously,and the reason for controlling foxes in your mind is all for financial gain,where us people who really do care about the wildlife like to keep things balanced.And why,Einstein,do the estate have to release english partridges when they used to be common as crows.Would it because the foxes happen to prey on them Sherlock.Just a thought.Flocks of 20 to 50 because they have to release them????Oh man,your thread gets better and better.Keep up the good work for the comedy value.

[markbivvy]

Well sako751sg you are clearly on the pot and not I. Though I bow to your superior wisdom as my only experience is from the grounds I shoot. If Foxes are not devouring the Game on the largest property I shoot,( I use this as a guideline, as the smaller properties are agriculture, no syndicates involved), they are not shot on sight.

 

according to your profile you list drugs as one of your interests.??

addicts with guns whatever next.

 

 

The few that are shot, ones that come too close to the game pens, are opened up, to see what they are feeding on. If by the said contents, they do not appear to be eating the Pheasants, they are left alone. A conservationist view if ever I saw one, and a good one too. Equilibrium springs to mind.

 

so you do shot em, but leave them alone if they have NOT eaten your pheasants.??

 

The Estate doesn't bother with game on the ground, like Larks, Yellow Hammers and Pippets as there is no money to be made in those, and partridges are left to fend for themselves, but they do release English Partridge anually, because they can afford it I presume, but no one is allowed to shoot them, EVER, another conservation thing, and I am glad to see it. Flocks of 20 to 50 are now common place, and a joy to observe.

 

I do think that our ground game and nesting birds would fare quite well without the interference of man, but then who am I? I just go there to shoot the Pigeons.

 

You can pass me that spliff now.

some work in the country side some play in it.

Edited January 7, 2010 by markbivvy

[Blackpowder]

Our syndicate landlord is a hunting man so we do not shoot or trap foxes.yet we see surprisingly few on shoot days. Rather we have to depend on making our pens as fox proof as possible, not an easy job as anyone familiar with the job will tell you.

 

I think the reason why so many shooters target foxes is the challenge of outwitting a very intelligent and capable predator regardless of whether game or poultry are being protected. I have heard gamekeepers say that they would never like to see the extinction of the fox, it is part of the job. When centre fire rifles were becoming the vogue among game preservers in the 1970's the price for a good winter head shot fox skin was £15. I dont know the reason but the market collapsed to nil price, the end of lamping? No fear sportsmen had caught the bug for the job and more than ever the winter night is split with search light like beams, and before the popularity of surpressors the sharp crack of a centre fire rifle.

 

Blackpowder

[Jim Sarakun]

Speaking as a keeper on a smallish farm shoot, I think foxes by their very nature are marvellous animals and are nice to see-However the damage the do can be quite catastrophic (i.e getting in to pens etc etc), and for the last 2 or 3 years we have culled 50 foxes-give or take 2 or 3, theyre numbers never seem to lessen, and I think whilst theyre numbers to seem to stay consistent then they should be kept to a reasonable level otherwise what would keep theyre numbers down-since they have no other natural predators?

 

Just my take on it!

 

Robby22

 

That's the truth Robby22 and thank you for your input. The large Estate I shoot now bury the wire net a few feet into the ground to stop them digging in. It's a precaution even though they have not had a problem for a long time now.

[dusk2dawn]

"If a man walks into your front room and takes your dinner because he is hungry what would you do? if he did it the next day and took all your meals what would you do?"

 

Lock my door.

 

 

Made me chuckle, almost spat my dunked biscuit out lol.

 

Rob.

 

 

Reading further down this thread, I would question whether anyone would see more than a dozen English partridge in a covey.

 

I am rusty on Partridge but the Grey is extremely territorial and a cock bird will defend up to 3/4 acres dependant upon size of fields and in turn hedgerow placement which restricts the cockbirds line of sight.

 

Correct me if I am wrong, not confusing the Frenchman which is a completely different matter.

 

Cheers Rob.

Edited January 7, 2010 by dusk2dawn

[Blackbart]

That's the truth Robby22 and thank you for your input. The large Estate I shoot now bury the wire net a few feet into the ground to stop them digging in. It's a precaution even though they have not had a problem for a long time now.

 

Wow !!

 

Fancy revealing a trade secret like "bury the mesh" a few feet into the ground.It's only been going on a hundred years or so.

 

Try and have a look at some of the research the GCT has been doing.Very similar estates side by side,one with no control and the other fully keepered.One is almost barren of wildlife the other is thriving.The theory of leaving things alone and they will sort themselves out doesnt work unless you live in the land of the anti everything brigade and then in fifty years time when there isnt any wildlife about bar predators they can admit they got it wrong.

[pavman]

Made me chuckle, almost spat my dunked biscuit out lol.

 

Rob.

 

 

dunked biscuit you say

[dusk2dawn]

dunked biscuit you say

 

 

Indeed, a chocolate hobnob no less.....

 

Lol Rob.

[markbivvy]

dunked biscuit you say

 

 

Indeed, a chocolate hobnob no less.....

 

Lol Rob.

 

 

Have to ask , just to get the thread back on topic.

What harm was the hob nod doing please.

could you have had something else instead of killing a biscuit.

[dick darstardly]

Wow !!

 

Fancy revealing a trade secret like "bury the mesh" a few feet into the ground.It's only been going on a hundred years or so.

 

Try and have a look at some of the research the GCT has been doing.Very similar estates side by side,one with no control and the other fully keepered.One is almost barren of wildlife the other is thriving.The theory of leaving things alone and they will sort themselves out doesnt work unless you live in the land of the anti everything brigade and then in fifty years time when there isnt any wildlife about bar predators they can admit they got it wrong.

 

 

Too true, it is not simply a case of leaving things alone and they will sort themselves out. Nature of course will allow a resolution to prevail but that will usually be the robust and specie able to adapt (in our case the fox) remaining and the more vunerable and niche specific animals declining or vanishing. I worked for 4 years in southern Africa in the Kruger national park assisting in culling activities and have witnessed the effectivness of a properly respected and conducted cull plan. Not perfectly and without fault a more suistanable balance is reached which is needed to maintain bio-diversity.

 

I myself do not shoot Foxes, but i do respect the need and responsibility we carry on all spieces when we impact on there environment ie; hunt to extinction there competition for food as happened in the UK with wolves, Lynx and bear (fox numbers go up) and also lay hundred of thousand of ground rearing birds (easy food fox numbers go up) just two simple examples of human actions that have a knock on effect to fox numbers.

 

I think a more uniformed approach to fox culling would be responsible eg: cull targets not just shoot all encountered, although i have no doubt the fox would remain as it is unchallenged for food.

[monkeymagic1969]

Just killing one because it is there doesn't cut the ice. Graphic pictures and documentation I find abhorent.

 

 

easy answer to this - dont read the bloody thread or look at the picture

Fox control is a Necessity if you rear game, farm sheep, keep chickens, ducks or even cats for matter -

Edited January 7, 2010 by monkeymagic1969

[al4x]

easy answer to this - dont read the bloody thread or look at the picture

Fox control is a Necessity if you rear game, farm sheep, keep chickens, ducks or even cats for matter -

 

 

maybe in more polite terms armchair shooter may be a better term

[monkeymagic1969]

Politeness may have better a better option Alex- but some days people on this and other forums make your blood boil with their misconstrued ideas about fox control and other subjects.

There was even a question earlier today about 'Thumb or finger' for turning a scope mounted torch on ~ if he can't work that out for himself and need others to guide him, then i suggest perhaps he needs more help than just an internet forum