Guest Callum. Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 Well firstly it's Border not Boarder.And no,I wouldn't use one as a gundog. People on here are talking about how they don't like them etc; but I think they are just bad with dogs,if you still like Collie's go for it,they are excellent pets,workers and agility dogs. Totally different to a spaniel but I think Collie's are the best dog you can get. My brother got his for 80 quid and it's good with the sheep and she is lovely natured and well behaved,but won't retrieve a thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 I used to have three Border Collies and trained them up to the gun when I started shooting with a shotgun. They were around three to four years old at that time and I only had partial access to them as I had split with my wife. They all made excellent dogs for rough shooting and beating. The main difference between a collie and a springer is that the collies soon learned to avoid the areas that were obviously not going to hold game and therefore concentrated their efforts on the areas that did. I got some strange looks when I turned up at shoots with two or three collies, but I was always asked back as my dogs genuinely worked under control and independently of each other. They didn't follow one another round as you see many dogs that are kept together do. Twenty years on and people still complement me on those dogs. After the collies I had a long haired GSD bitch that also was trained to flush and retrieve. One snowy beater's day when she was the only dog in a walking line of 8 guns she flushed and retreived 54 pheasants. She had the added advantage of ensuring I got plenty of room in the beater's van too If there so much better then why don't people "stop wasting" there time with spaniel n labs n all get collies ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utectok Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 (edited) I think collies are great dogs but thier weakness as gun dogs is the aren't much cop with retriving. Edited January 17, 2010 by utectok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren m Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 collies are not in anyway gun dogs , but they can be taught a few basics if you really had too . my collie bitch will retrieve pheasant no probs , in fact she delivers them to hand better than my springer at the mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edward Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 (edited) I personally hate collies, but thats me. I know a chap who has a boarder terrier that picks up, so it can be done, but not with a collie Edited January 17, 2010 by Edward Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 If there so much better then why don't people "stop wasting" there time with spaniel n labs n all get collies ? Virtually any dog that is physically capable of hunting and retrieving can be trained to do so by someone with ability. Springers naturally hunt and retrieve therefore are easier to handle for most folk who don't necessarily have the ability to train a dog. As can be seen on any shoot with the number of springers that run in or race off after a shot bird without being sent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 I didn't disagree with the fact a collie COULD do it. But for the majority of peop;e you would be much better off with a dog that has hunting bred into it like a lab or a spaniel!! I was agreeing with Wesman post BT..... BJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesman Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 I'm not for or against a collie being a gundog bigthug. I know dogs and I know I could get a collie to work well in the field. I had a boxer/mastiff retrieving to hand after a few sessions and it was as thick as mince. I am dogless at the moment, but I'm a keen amateur dog trainer and I will be after a lab for my next dog and it will hunt. Labs were bred to bring in fishing nets so shooters have adapted that behaviour to develop an insinct to retrieve. I want to train it to hunt as I believe it's easier to teach a lab to hunt than it is to teach a spaniel to retrieve and be steady. I may get a standard poodle though as a challenge. I think if the lad has the time and understands the nature of a collie, it could be a good dog for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 I'm not for or against a collie being a gundog bigthug. I know dogs and I know I could get a collie to work well in the field. I had a boxer/mastiff retrieving to hand after a few sessions and it was as thick as mince. I am dogless at the moment, but I'm a keen amateur dog trainer and I will be after a lab for my next dog and it will hunt. Labs were bred to bring in fishing nets so shooters have adapted that behaviour to develop an insinct to retrieve. I want to train it to hunt as I believe it's easier to teach a lab to hunt than it is to teach a spaniel to retrieve and be steady. I may get a standard poodle though as a challenge. I think if the lad has the time and understands the nature of a collie, it could be a good dog for him. Poodles are one of the most intelligent breeds and more than capable of being trained to hunt and retrieve. The question is whether you could stand the urine extraction I agree with all you say. The hardest part of training a spaniel and the part that many don't master is not training it to hunt, but stopping it from hunting when it wants to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GW80 Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 The thing i can't understand about border collies is why if they're so smart do a lot of them love chasing cars!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesman Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 ****, it'd have to have a skinhead UKP. I've had the priviledge to watch a "caniche" do it's stuff and I swear he retrieved 3 dropped ducks in seconds. Very impressive, but as you'd say, I'd never hear the end of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 I'm not for or against a collie being a gundog bigthug. I know dogs and I know I could get a collie to work well in the field. I had a boxer/mastiff retrieving to hand after a few sessions and it was as thick as mince. I am dogless at the moment, but I'm a keen amateur dog trainer and I will be after a lab for my next dog and it will hunt. Labs were bred to bring in fishing nets so shooters have adapted that behaviour to develop an insinct to retrieve. I want to train it to hunt as I believe it's easier to teach a lab to hunt than it is to teach a spaniel to retrieve and be steady. I may get a standard poodle though as a challenge. I think if the lad has the time and understands the nature of a collie, it could be a good dog for him. Ooh good luck with the poodle First challenge ... find a line that is still working, most of them are show dogs now, shame really Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sqwelchy Posted January 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 Alot of sound advice And iv already said that i dont like springers,so im going to go with either a labrador or a cocker. But i need one that is easier to train (i know it's not going a walk in the park) and one that is going to be happy to spend some time on its own as i work split shifts,but i will be able to see it for a couple of hours between work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 Alot of sound advice And iv already said that i dont like springers,so im going to go with either a labrador or a cocker. But i need one that is easier to train (i know it's not going a walk in the park) and one that is going to be happy to spend some time on its own as i work split shifts,but i will be able to see it for a couple of hours between work. An easy to train , first dog then get a Labrador Mate :o Im on my first ever gundog with a Black Lab Bitch, Shes 8 months old now and will come n sit on whistle. She is hunting up the odd snipe and bird on our walks and will retrieve placed pheasant. Im not doing too much with her yet as I have just spoken to her breader and we will start training her properly in about 3 weeks. (He field trials his labs.) Should make a fantastic hunting and working dog with his guidance I cant wait Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSS Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 The thing i can't understand about border collies is why if they're so smart do a lot of them love chasing cars!!! Boredom, that is why they need so much attention. They seem to amuse themselves very well, chasing cars and sticks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 Boredom, that is why they need so much attention. They seem to amuse themselves very well, chasing cars and sticks. and people lol! When on a farm we saw one in the distance, really really far away lol! As we looked it kept getting closer, the bloody thing was running towards us. It ran for a good 15-20 mins. It arrived to with 10 feet of us, barked for about 2 mintues ... and then decided to run back Made us laugh haha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesman Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 Ooh good luck with the poodle First challenge ... find a line that is still working, most of them are show dogs now, shame really as usual the good dogs are ruined by idiots. I saw a clueless lad with a viszla today, god I hope the general public don't start buying HPR's. I'd go to France for a breeder. Buy a real caniche. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 as usual the good dogs are ruined by idiots. I saw a clueless lad with a viszla today, god I hope the general public don't start buying HPR's. I'd go to France for a breeder. Buy a real caniche. Ive seen quite alot of people with Weimanaurs and similar dogs. I hate seeing hunting dogs as pets There bred to work and the joy both handler and dogs have makes it so much fun. I really feel the dogs are missing out haha! What a shame Same with Springers, quite a few people I know have some n someone I know recently picked one up from very good lines apparantly. Just to leave them at home all the time and never hunt them :o what a tragedy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rimfire4969 Posted January 18, 2010 Report Share Posted January 18, 2010 I have a collie and a springer, and think with time and the right training a collie could work a gun or beaters line. Mine is too old to start again, her job is the livestock and my springers job is flushing and retrieving. I don't think a collie for a first gundog would be good, it would be a lot more work. For the first i would go for a lab, but training little and often. In other words everyday. I expect for the money you are talking it will be a challenge to get one though. Goodluck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted January 18, 2010 Report Share Posted January 18, 2010 as usual the good dogs are ruined by idiots. I saw a clueless lad with a viszla today, god I hope the general public don't start buying HPR's. they have been for years, the average HPR is a loyal family pet even if it doesn't work, My GWP is as soppy as anything has various relatives children that she loves to bits half the time you'll find them on top of her in her bed as close to trustworthy as you can get. However is a different animal out shooting and here is where you get the challenge if you stray away from the normal shooting dogs. You're to an extent working against their instinctive breeding but it can be done to an extent, I've had mine out beating for a while now and she's getting better and better. Theres a lot to be said for a dog that hunts steadily and stops when they see a bird. Mine will go into cover and almost stalk birds and stop as they flush so you don't get the crashing about you would with a lab or springer causing big flushes of birds. In woods she does the same and ok you have to work with her to stop her going too far up front but she is turning into a great dog. Picking up runners you'll struggle to find a dog that scents so well she'll just do along the downwind side of a hedge and stop and point till you tell her to get in as its not their usual job. With collies I've seen one that can beat but that lived with a springer so learned all the bad habits from that would flush but they aren't a retriever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted January 18, 2010 Report Share Posted January 18, 2010 I believe that a lot of the crashing about that causes birds to flush in greater numbers than is desired is down to the lack of control over the dogs. When you think about it, labs and springers work best into the wind, but many drives are across the wind or downwind and the dogs don't have the oppertunity to hunt up the scent trails and approach the birds from afar. Unless the handler can keep them under control and direct them, they tend to run amock in those situations. Birds get scared, huddle up together and the next thing some high speed spaniel is right in amongst them working on sight, not scent, causing a mass flush some of which don't go the right way. Breeds that don't have the high drive are more controllable and can make better beating dogs. My collies worked three zones, one to the left of me, one to the right of me and one in front. I could stop them all or one to the whistle and direct them individually by word and hand signals. They would go from hiding place to hiding place close enough in front for my or the beater at the side of me's presence to ensure that the birds flushed towards the guns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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