THEINVISIBLESCARECROW Posted February 3, 2010 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 (edited) Some old paper case cart's. Holland & Holland, Eley Grand Prix. I do know they still make cartridges under the H&H name. Any idea how old they are ? name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src=" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>"> name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src=" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> Edited February 4, 2010 by THEINVISIBLESCARECROW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KennyB Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 the eleys look very similar to what my grandad use to use back in the 50s, brings back good memories Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 The Holland and Holland one is actually an Eley Impax that has been rebranded H&H. You can still buy Eley Grand Prix paper cartridges exactly like that today. They still make them, beautiful cartridges. Imagine setting out on a frosty morning with a bag full of those. Much nicer than a load of plastic rubbish. They are not that old that they are valuable but still very nice. Real cartridges if you know what I mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floating Chamber Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 (edited) The Holland and Holland one is actually an Eley Impax that has been rebranded H&H. You can still buy Eley Grand Prix paper cartridges exactly like that today. They still make them, beautiful cartridges. Imagine setting out on a frosty morning with a bag full of those. Much nicer than a load of plastic rubbish. They are not that old that they are valuable but still very nice. Real cartridges if you know what I mean. I agree with Vince, 'tho I will add: The Grand Prix has a head stamp, missing the ICI emblem (with '12' either side.) The earlier Grand Prix up to the early 1960s had the shot-size printed near the base. The removeable battery cup primer on both shells puts them post-1950s, more like mid 1960s or later. Up till then, the cases, made in England, had a captive* BRASS battery cup with an inner '1B' percussion cap and anvil. The battery cups on the shells in the video are of coppered steel and '209' type. The H&H could be an imported Fiocchi case. * The battery cup was used as a 'rivet' to hold the brass-shim head, steel-shim reinforcing liner and paper tube together. The shield is the EBL ('Eley Bros') trade mark. Edited February 4, 2010 by Floating Chamber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 There still seem to be gunshops selling paper cartridges, I think Thomas Turners still do their Red Rapids - if you can afford them of course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 They will be Hull Cartridge Company Three Crowns. As far as I know they are the only company now making "own brand" cartridges for dealers. Lovely cartridges though. We ought to start a campaign to bring back "real" paper cartridges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George1990 Posted February 5, 2010 Report Share Posted February 5, 2010 Being a whipper-snapper I've only used a a couple of paper cartridges. Was in fact the Turner's Red Rapid (Eley brass), and ones that said Clover Club (think they had Eley brass too.) Can't beat the smell of them, and the way they slide into the barrels. One day I'll treat myself and get a load of em. Not the same as using old ones though I'm sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floating Chamber Posted February 6, 2010 Report Share Posted February 6, 2010 Being a whipper-snapper I've only used a a couple of paper cartridges. Was in fact the Turner's Red Rapid (Eley brass), and ones that said Clover Club (think they had Eley brass too.) Can't beat the smell of them, and the way they slide into the barrels. One day I'll treat myself and get a load of em. Not the same as using old ones though I'm sure. Yes! Lovely. Shell-sniffing was part of the enjoyment 50 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferret Master Posted February 6, 2010 Report Share Posted February 6, 2010 Had a good old sniff of a Gamebore black powder paper cased cartridge recently. FM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackpowder Posted February 7, 2010 Report Share Posted February 7, 2010 About everyone used Grand Prix in the 50's , 12 gauge orange, 16 gauge blue, 20 gauge yellow. If I remember correctly the Grand Prix had a patent, ( pneumatic) wad comprising a dark blue or purple corrugated cylinder. Oh and when you opened a box of Grand Prix there was a glorious smell of fresh varnish or shellac, almost as good as a fired BP case. Here is a question:- load for load do members think that paper cases and fibre wads gave a reduced recoil compared to their modern plastic equivalent. Blackpowder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floating Chamber Posted February 7, 2010 Report Share Posted February 7, 2010 About everyone used Grand Prix in the 50's , 12 gauge orange, 16 gauge blue, 20 gauge yellow. If I remember correctly the Grand Prix had a patent, ( pneumatic) wad comprising a dark blue or purple corrugated cylinder. Oh and when you opened a box of Grand Prix there was a glorious smell of fresh varnish or shellac, almost as good as a fired BP case. Here is a question:- load for load do members think that paper cases and fibre wads gave a reduced recoil compared to their modern plastic equivalent. Blackpowder I just fished a few out of the workshop and photographed them. These are the shorter one used in heavier loads than Grand Prix. The Grand Prix wads would have been nigh on 3/4" long. Happy memories! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groach1234 Posted February 7, 2010 Report Share Posted February 7, 2010 I shot paper cases for the first time on my last two days of the season and boy oh boy were they a real pleasure to shoot, like you say the smell of the case and the feel as they slide into the chamber thats what game shooting is all about George Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floating Chamber Posted February 7, 2010 Report Share Posted February 7, 2010 In the advertising hype of over 50 years ago, Eley claimed to have used banana oil to lubricate the mouth of the paper shell! But I think it was the varnish and the nitrocellulose/nitroglycerine burn that did the job. Mind you, I do have a liking for the pure nitrocellulose smell too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vampire Posted February 8, 2010 Report Share Posted February 8, 2010 Have got some old Sellior & Bellot 12g,and some eley 410 if anyone interested,plus some empty cases just couldnt resist having a go and its right hell of a bang/kick/smell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBL Posted February 10, 2010 Report Share Posted February 10, 2010 Had a good old sniff of a Gamebore black powder paper cased cartridge recently. FM These cartridges are cracking fun and I bought a box for use last season. Not cheap at £17 for 25, but enormously fun and still very effective. First cartridge used got my first woodcock in over a decade using a 140 yr old hammergun :blink: The smell, smoke and sound are magnificent - cleaning is more challenging though and you need to be careful that you really clean the barrels and action fully. Peter Dyson sells black powder cartridges as well - around £11 a box. Outside of these, I use paper cartridges all the time. I don't do anywhere near the amount of shooting I used to do, so I can just about justify the extra expense. Hull Cartridge 3 crowns and Eley Classic Game both excellent cartridges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEINVISIBLESCARECROW Posted February 10, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2010 Thanks for the replies. I enjoyed reading them. Just found some more. Started a new post with those though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackpowder Posted February 14, 2010 Report Share Posted February 14, 2010 I just fished a few out of the workshop and photographed them. These are the shorter one used in heavier loads than Grand Prix. The Grand Prix wads would have been nigh on 3/4" long. Happy memories! These are exactly how I remember them Floating Chamber, gosh not seen them for a long time. Once the local ironmonger got in a load of , "Yellow Wizard" for the pigeon season, now these left a deposit in the barrel but despite being cheap and nasty they did the job over decoys. Another memorable cartridge was the paper case Biakel, it kicked like a mule, spurted flame in the gloom af a roosting wood, created intensive barrel fouling, along with the gout of flame there seemed to be a sprinkling of confetti, once you fired 50 of these you sure knew about it but again they seemed to kill well. Blackpowder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomasbeaton Posted February 15, 2010 Report Share Posted February 15, 2010 These are exactly how I remember them Floating Chamber, gosh not seen them for a long time. Once the local ironmonger got in a load of , "Yellow Wizard" for the pigeon season, now these left a deposit in the barrel but despite being cheap and nasty they did the job over decoys. Another memorable cartridge was the paper case Biakel, it kicked like a mule, spurted flame in the gloom af a roosting wood, created intensive barrel fouling, along with the gout of flame there seemed to be a sprinkling of confetti, once you fired 50 of these you sure knew about it but again they seemed to kill well. Blackpowder i got given 10 baikil bb,s in papper cartridge and used them in my gp at the goose first shot landed me on the floor haha, happy shooting thomas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harpoonlouis Posted June 6, 2011 Report Share Posted June 6, 2011 I just found one of theose purple wads on my clay shoot this weekend, somebody was shooting some old stuff! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveb Posted June 6, 2011 Report Share Posted June 6, 2011 (edited) Still got about a hundred of them paper cased grand prix, and looking forward to using them this season, they are a wee bit sooty bit of a louder bang but has been said already the smell is magic Edited June 6, 2011 by steveb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oops Missed Again Posted June 6, 2011 Report Share Posted June 6, 2011 About everyone used Grand Prix in the 50's , 12 gauge orange, 16 gauge blue, 20 gauge yellow. If I remember correctly the Grand Prix had a patent, ( pneumatic) wad comprising a dark blue or purple corrugated cylinder. Oh and when you opened a box of Grand Prix there was a glorious smell of fresh varnish or shellac, almost as good as a fired BP case. Here is a question:- load for load do members think that paper cases and fibre wads gave a reduced recoil compared to their modern plastic equivalent. Blackpowder I've got a couple of boxes of "Chaplin Cushion Loads" 28grm, they are called this, I think, because you need a cushion on your should to fire them, do they kick or what!! Not looking forward to a big day out on the pigeon as a few hundred shots would turn me into a hospital case. Powder for powder, shot for shot they must kick more I believe. Fibre wads are tighter and if they absorb any moisture at all they swell up inside and out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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