putting in for a variation calibre advice needed

[hendersons]

I'm thinking about putting in for a variation for a couple of rifles, so I have just been into my local shop to see what he had in stock. I whent in with the idea of putting in for a .17hmr for rabbit and fox and a .243 for deer and fox. Having read lots on here and speaking to my piers i thought these calibres would pretty much cover me perfectly. Only I stayed for a bit of a chat and a coffee and while speaking to the rfd he said why not go for a .204 instead of the .17hmr as it does not get affected by the wind so much and you can get a heavier bullet which makes it more suitable for the fox. I would be able to reload them so they would make it a bit cheaper. I put the argument across wouldn't it make too much damage to a rabbit to which he replied 'do you take head or body shots as the hmr will make just as much damage if you don't head shoot. so you are better off with this and just head shooting.' As probably 95% of the rabbits I shoot are head shot I thought this would be ok. the other suggestion he made was to go for a 6.5x55 instead of the .243 as you can use a heavier grain of bullet for any larger deer and you get less meat damage. As i'm a suspicious sort i was wondering if he just had a couple of rifles that he had knocking about for a while and struggling to sell so i asked if I could have a look turns out he didn't have any in but would gladly get them for me to have a look at and this was despite the fact he had plenty of .243 and .17hmr in stock.

So having never used either of these calibres i thought i would throw it over to you guys to see what you all think. anybody got them or used them oor anybody with an opinion

 

 

many thanks nick

[WGD]

Mmmmm, there's a very good reason that .17hmr and .243 are so popular. Not disputing what your RFD says but I see nothing wrong with your original choice.

[Lez325]

Variation you say- can I ask what calibres you hold on FAC at this moment in time? I may then be in a better position to offer some advice

 

Les

[PAULT]

if i was putting in for another rifle it would be the 204

[hendersons]

Variation you say- can I ask what calibres you hold on FAC at this moment in time? I may then be in a better position to offer some advice

 

Les

 

 

so far just a .22lr but i have had a mentor for deer for the last couple of years and been using his 30-06 and .243

nick

[hendersons]

if i was putting in for another rifle it would be the 204

 

 

any reason?

[Lez325]

In that case I would opt for ( in your case) a 17 HMR cracking for bunnies and the odd fox if your area allow that calibre to be used 243 is also a good fox round although normally associated with Deer a very good calibre

 

If your reloading 243 aint too expensive - my shooting buddy uses one for foxing - I have the 222 and I find it just a devastating on mr Fox

 

Les

Edited March 23, 2010 by Lez325

[hendersons]

In that case I would opt for ( in your case) a 17 HMR cracking for bunnies and the odd fox if your area allow that calibre to be used 243 is also a good fox round although normally associated with Deer a very good calibre

 

Les

 

 

may I ask why over the .204 and 6.5x55

sorry if i'm appearing difficult just struggling to get my head round it

thanks nick

[Lez325]

I have no experience with 204 to be honest but I use my 17 HMR every day and bag rabbits by the dozen - I have shot on ranges with a 6.5 x55 and prefer the 243 noise and recoil seem more comfortable to me- - just personal preference- and anyway you have to live with whatever calibre you opt for- so maybe see if you can try before you buy so to speak

 

Les

Edited March 23, 2010 by Lez325

[Mr_Logic]

204 is a good round but you need a long barrel to get velocities much over 223. If you want a step up from HMR, then 22 Hornet is your friend. Cheap to reload and mine proves they can be accurate.

 

If you can shoot straight 243 will kill any UK deer and can be loaded to be about the ultimate fox rifle. My h

choices therefore are 22 Hornet and 243.

[hendersons]

just had a thought are moderators easy to get hold of for these calibres

[Dunkield]

Yes easy for both.

[al4x]

your RFD is talking out of his backside, a .204 is a great fox gun but IMHO not a bunny gun, its a centrefire its noisy compared to an HMR its got a lot of energy behind it so you need to be a lot more careful where you use it and realistically if you shoot many rabbits its going to be a pain reloading enough, personally I think you had your choices spot on

[pigglet]

You say you have .22lr, are you intending to change this for the hmr? if not then I can see the logic behind a .204 for long range rabbit, pest and fox.

 

 

I should say that I have not used a .204 but I do like the look of it for the above purposes.

 

If you are getting rid of the .22lr then thats a different kettle of tuna. Centrefire only for rabbits sounds a bit strong

[PAULT]

any reason?

so i can reload my own ammo bucks the wind better

[al4x]

so i can reload my own ammo bucks the wind better

 

 

not as well as a .243 that he's also going for.

[MC]

Out of what you have said I would choose the .17HMR and the 6.5 x 55.

 

I prefer the smoothness of the 6.5 as opposed to the bark of the .243. I know the moderators will calm them down a little but that is my preference. I hope your firearms department is more forgiving than Essex as they won't condition the .17HMR for fox.

[hendersons]

the plan is to keep the .22lr for lamping and close range work, and use something else for longer range and fox.The problem that i'm having at the moment is that one of the areas i shoot over is quite baron so the rabbits can see me coming from miles away even in full stealth mode, so they clear off before i get within range of the .22lr. As such i was looking for something to tip the scales in my favour a little by giving me some extra range. I also need the capability to shoot fox at the same time as one of the farms i shoot on keeps hundreds of free range chickens which he sells for the table, so it is not uncommon for me to bump into 1 or 2 while out rabbit shooting.

 

which got me onto thinking a .17hmr for long range rabbit and fox and .243 for deer and fox the fox bit on this is for if i happen to bump into one rather than going out to find them i was kind of hoping the smaller calibre would cover this, but then my rfd threw the new calibres into the mix and just wondered what everybody thought

nick

[Dekers]

The .204 has it's moments, it is a pretty specialist calibre and tends to be very ammo fussy, I understand many have to load their own to achieve it's potential, but as another contributor also said you also need a long barrel, seems 26 is required. This can cause issues hunting, especially if you have a mod, ok of course if you ambush, but also a nightmare from a motor.

 

I spent a lot of time looking at these 2 or 3 years back, did a lot of research and decided it had no place for me in my Cabinet!

 

If you want a bit more than HMR then probably Hornet is a good option. But remember the 17g V-max HMR are very frangeable, and if you cant knock down a bunny with these at 150 yards after a bit of practice then you need some help, an easy 100 yard bunny head shot tool!!

 

I have little experience of the 6.5x55 so not in the best position to comment, but I do have a .223, .243 and a .308, and with the ammo choices available for those I have no need to change anything at the moment!!

 

Edited March 23, 2010 by Dekers

[Beardo]

the .17hmr is a fantastic long range bunny tool, ammo is fairly cheap and it's fine for foxes that you see when out on the bunnies.

i'm exploring a larger CF calibre at the moment as i have .223 for fox and muntjac (which is does fantastically). If i didn't have the .223, i'd most likely go for a .243, but as i do, i'm probably going 6.5x55

[njc110381]

The HMR is a wonderful little round for bunnies at reasonable ranges. On a still day you can push them out quite a long way! .204 is a pretty specialist round and I don't care what your RFD says, it will turn a bunny inside out unless you head shoot it! It's too much gun unless you 1. like mashing things up or 2. will shoot a lot of Foxes on your vermin permissions regularly.

 

I've messed about with a few bunny/Fox guns, .223, .22 Hornet, .17 Ackley Hornet and .17HMR. I'm not a fan of the HMR for Fox but if you're close it will work. .17 Ackley is a stunning little round but it's hard work to load for so depends if you're willing to put the sweat and time in? The rifles are also custom, so not cheap. .22 Hornet is like a beefed up HMR, so if you're willing to reload consider one because they're cheap to run and 100x better than a HMR. It will work well on Foxes out to 150 yards! .223, well it's like the .204 - too much for bunnies really unless you're happy to vapourise them!

 

On the Deer front the .243 is a brilliant Fox calibre. It could take over where the smaller rifle runs out of steam. What species do you plan to shoot? If you may shoot Red/Sika then I follow your RFDs thoughts on the 6.5x55. I went for one in the end because I wanted a do it all rifle for all Deer and I don't think the .243 is ideal for bigger species. That said it's not as good as the .243 as a Fox rifle. The bullets are heavier and they often don't get on with really light bullets on offer to the home loader because they are throated for long, heavy bullets (that stick out of the case a mile).

 

Have you looked up the .260 Remington? It's a .243 necked up to 6.5, or .308 necked down. Whatever! It shoots the same size bullets as the 6.5x55 but has a shorter neck/throat so handles the lighter bullets better. I think if I was to pick an all purpose rifle again I would seriously consider this calibre.

 

If you ever find yourself in my area you're welcome to try my 6.5x55 and .17 Ackley. I certainly think the 6.5 is more mild to shoot than a .243, but whether that bothers you I don't know? Neither are what I would call harsh.

[hendersons]

The HMR is a wonderful little round for bunnies at reasonable ranges. On a still day you can push them out quite a long way! .204 is a pretty specialist round and I don't care what your RFD says, it will turn a bunny inside out unless you head shoot it! It's too much gun unless you 1. like mashing things up or 2. will shoot a lot of Foxes on your vermin permissions regularly.

 

I've messed about with a few bunny/Fox guns, .223, .22 Hornet, .17 Ackley Hornet and .17HMR. I'm not a fan of the HMR for Fox but if you're close it will work. .17 Ackley is a stunning little round but it's hard work to load for so depends if you're willing to put the sweat and time in? The rifles are also custom, so not cheap. .22 Hornet is like a beefed up HMR, so if you're willing to reload consider one because they're cheap to run and 100x better than a HMR. It will work well on Foxes out to 150 yards! .223, well it's like the .204 - too much for bunnies really unless you're happy to vapourise them!

 

On the Deer front the .243 is a brilliant Fox calibre. It could take over where the smaller rifle runs out of steam. What species do you plan to shoot? If you may shoot Red/Sika then I follow your RFDs thoughts on the 6.5x55. I went for one in the end because I wanted a do it all rifle for all Deer and I don't think the .243 is ideal for bigger species. That said it's not as good as the .243 as a Fox rifle. The bullets are heavier and they often don't get on with really light bullets on offer to the home loader because they are throated for long, heavy bullets (that stick out of the case a mile).

 

Have you looked up the .260 Remington? It's a .243 necked up to 6.5, or .308 necked down. Whatever! It shoots the same size bullets as the 6.5x55 but has a shorter neck/throat so handles the lighter bullets better. I think if I was to pick an all purpose rifle again I would seriously consider this calibre.

 

If you ever find yourself in my area you're welcome to try my 6.5x55 and .17 Ackley. I certainly think the 6.5 is more mild to shoot than a .243, but whether that bothers you I don't know? Neither are what I would call harsh.

 

 

thanks for your reply greatly appreciate such an indepth response i will try to reply as best I can

 

I mostly (95%) take head shots as I use any rabbits i shoot in the restaurant i work in and I don't get the money for them unless they are head shot, so i think .204 would be ok although i have to admit i have never heard of a .17 ackley hornet is it a centrefire? must be a bit like a .17 remington fireball? which I have used.I didn't even think about a .22 hornet does this round not do much damage?. I feel a little more research and head scratching maybe in order for this vermin/fox rifle.

 

As for the deer rifle I have to admit it will rarely get used for fox only if I bump into one on my travels so I expect I will be only really loading for deer. The species of deer that i will be shooting will be mainly fallow,roe and muntjac, with a couple of trips a year to ireland hopefully to shoot red and sika as such from what you describe the 6.5x55 should be the ideal rifle for me.

 

The offer that you gave me of coming to try them is one that i realy appreciate and i'm not that far away from you only ten minutes the other side of cirencester so if it is ok with you i would love to come and try them out I have sunday evenings, thursday evenings and all day mondays and tuesdays off from work the rest of the time it is pretty much 18 hrs a day so if you can make any of these times please p.m. me

 

many thanks again to you and all the other people who have offered advice it would appear i'm nearly halfway there now i nreckon i'm 75% sure on the deer calibre but definitely not sure on the other one so keep it coming chaps

 

nick

[hendersons]

why does the barrel have to be 26 inches i don't understand what you mean. Most of the .204 calibre rifles i can find seem to have 24 and 25 inch barrels.

[casts_by_fly]

hendersons,

 

It might be helpful to know what you're calling long range. When you're talking about centerfires, anything under 300 isn't long range (except for the 22 hornet).

 

From what you've said in all of your posts, it sounds like a 17 or small 20 is exactly what you need balistically. It sounds like you want for rabbits out to 200 or so and foxes when they pop up. As NJ said, the 17 AH would do exactly what you want, but it is a true wildcat. If you're using a moderator, you can get all of the benefits of the AH from the 17 FB in a factory friendly package. Dies are standard, factory rifles are available. Low intensity power wise, but plenty of speed for good velocity and killing power. If I were to do it again, I'd probably go 17 FB over the 17 AH for those reasons. That said, I love my AH even if I haven't shot it that much. Another choice if you're reloading would be the 20 vartarg. It is the 221 FB case necked down to 20 cal. About 3/4 the capacity of the 204 ruger but 90% of the speed with light bullets. Not a major wildcat, but not factory either.

 

For the deer gun, you're on the right track. Anything in the 243-270 bracket would be just fine. My personal choice would probably be the 25-06, but they will all do the job. If you're reloading for it all the better.

 

Thanks

Rick

[hendersons]

does the .17 fb not get affected by wind a lot, that is why i thought the 204ruger would posiibly be better

thanks nick