miroku38 Posted October 29, 2005 Report Share Posted October 29, 2005 Just been out for a days pigeon shooting over rape( paid day ticket) and found it really frustrating. Was over 5 big fields and when i arrivd this morning i thought all my christmas came at once as there was hundreds feeding on it. While deciding on the best place to set up i got a few shots at passing birds and dropped 2 but that was it for 5 hours. All the pigeons just took off and anything that did pas over was way too high. I had both decoys and a rotary machine but not a thing. Is this what normally hapens with other people this time of year you just cant get the birds in as theres too many other fields for them to choose from. The farmer told me that if it gets really cold and even better if it snows then it will be easier to get them on the rape. Any feedback greatly appreciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berthaboo Posted October 29, 2005 Report Share Posted October 29, 2005 what you need is a strong wind to break the flock up or like you a few shots and the flock is gone what you really want at this time of year is lots of small flocks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catamong Posted October 29, 2005 Report Share Posted October 29, 2005 Thats the frustrating thing about shooting over Rape, there is usually so much of it in one particular area, that the Woodies simply fly off to feed unmolested half a mile down the road. The trick is to recce the area well beforehand over previous days to establish flightlines and favoured feeding areas, and make sure that as many of the other fields in the area are covered by other guns, or Gas Guns, or anything that will stop the ******* settling..!! Also, don't believe everything that Farmers tell you about Pigeons; they are on the Rape early this year simply because their favourite food at this time of year (in my area Acorns and Beechmast), is non-existent. They also become very difficult to decoy if snow is on the ground as they seem to be blinded by the snow cover and cannot see the decoys. Still, no doubt you got a refund from the guy that sold you the day's "Sport", so it wasn't a total right off, and you're one day older and a little wiser.?? :*) :*) :*) :*) Double H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted October 29, 2005 Report Share Posted October 29, 2005 i went out on rape today lots there when i got there put out decoys 2 came in shot them the rest came over hight started to rain so i went home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flash Posted October 29, 2005 Report Share Posted October 29, 2005 Miroku i was wandering where you did the gays pigeon shooting and how much it was, and if possible the contact details for the person you did it through. yours Flash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurcherboy Posted October 29, 2005 Report Share Posted October 29, 2005 You wanna get mates in the west mids, dont they Blackthorne LB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flash Posted October 29, 2005 Report Share Posted October 29, 2005 yeah the problem is that i dont have a car as im to young so icant get up there on my own unless the dad is willing to drive me :< :< i wish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackthorn Posted October 30, 2005 Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 You wanna get mates in the west mids, dont they Blackthorne LB i have got to get mates in the west mids mine run run run of to london Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted October 30, 2005 Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 Like everything to do with pigeon shooting, every question creates other questions and there are a million possible answers. There have been a number of threads about weather, especially wind, affecting the decoyability (invented new word ?) of pigeons, this could have been the problem. Also, with so many fields close by, they are spoilt for choice. Its a pity you couldn't find out where the passing birds were flying to. If you are shooting a busy day ticket area, it might be that the land has been overshot. Many years ago, a Farmer in East Surrey was selling a days pigeon shooting for £10 per gun. A friend bought a day ticket and swore that there was no living creature on the land. In a similar place at Billericy in Essex, we were told by the Farm workers that when it rained, the "pigeon shooters" shot the sparrows around the barns. As I said, many questions and many possible answers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invector Posted October 30, 2005 Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 The pigeons have been on the rape for over three weeks in my corner of Northants and the gas guns are already out! I`ve had a few bags of thirty plus during this time and don`t find them particularly difficult to attract down. I`ve even started to pick and choose, shooting adult birds instead of juveniles! I usually start aroung 10am and have given up on early morning starts and plazzy deeks!! Don`t forget, if you also start at 10am, in pigeon time it`s 9am now that the clocks have gone back an hour. There are some flocks of over 200 birds about and I`m glad when they get split up and come in twos and threes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miroku38 Posted October 30, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 the farm i shot over had not been shot over for weeks so i dont think that was the issue..maybe it was just the wrong conditions for them. As a beginner i can only make a note of what i did and try and learn from it. I was using plastic decoys and had a dozen out. What i did notice two or three time thoug as i would watch a bird come from far out and kind of slow down and come in towards my decoys and then suddenly bolt away. now its not a case of him seeing me as i deliberately did not go to shoot him as i wanted to see how they reacted to my decoys. Do you think that rotary machine makes them suspicious? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted October 30, 2005 Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 as i said in the past you have got to no when to bring in the rotor i think its spooks the birds some times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catamong Posted October 30, 2005 Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 A rotary is essential when shooting over Rape, particularly at this time of year when it is still ankle, (or knee..!!) high in some places. The birds simply will not see a static pattern. However, it has to be placed in the right place, with as many deeks as you can carry, (12 is not enough), and each bird shot needs to be put straight out to supplement the pattern, and add "Compound Interest", as the legendary Archie Coats would say. How do you know that the field had "not been shot for weeks"..?? - if it is a day ticket shoot, this is highly unlikely, we've all visited fields that "have not been shot", only to find flattened bits of hedgerow with discarded bright shiny shell cases, and plenty of white feathers all around. Also, don't expect birds to land in your decoy pattern. They only generally do this when on drillings, with no rotary, and these tend to be younger, (more gormless..!!) birds. They will always spook when they get close to the rotary, as they realise they've been had, but by that time, if you've positioned yourself downwind of the rotary, they should present a relatively easy crossing shot on the approach. Good luck, please PM me if you'd like a day on the rape north of London, cos i've got more than I can cover right now, and it looks like we could be in for a good Winter..?? Double H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invector Posted October 30, 2005 Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 Double H I DO expect pigeons to land in my pattern and I would want to know why if they didn`t!!! They are mostly adults with a few juveniles at this time of year but at other times, with no juveniles, I want the adults to land. Rotaries are not essential on rape, and I`m getting good results without one, although I`m sorely tempted to get one just to see how good they are. You have to know when to leave the rotary in your vehicle and my advice to miroku38 is to bring in the rotary if pigeons flare away and see if it helps. As long as you remain well hidden, have nothing wrong with your pattern and no birds on their backs, or lying in unnatural positions, there must be something that is spooking them and the rotary is one variable you must eliminate. One other thing that is sometimes overlooked is a change in the wind direction during the day. If the birds are not coming in to your pattern from the same direction they were when you set out your deeks this could be the problem. I`ve had this happen several times and adjusting the pattern to take in the alternative wind direction does the trick. You must WATCH THE BIRDS or you`ll keep making the same mistakes every time. I`m very sensitive to the way birds approach my deeks and anything out of the ordinary and I will do everything I can to remedy it. If most of the birds are not actually landing in or around my pattern I know there is something wrong and I put it right. The other trick is to stay behind the netting and leave the hide as little as possible, whatever the temptation. Naturally I kill any birds that are wounded but as long as the birds are coming in OK I stay in the hide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catamong Posted October 30, 2005 Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 Invector, We've got the message first time, no need to post it twice..!! If you expect your birds to land in the pattern every time, that's fine for you, but ask Will Beasley or Jim Allbone if they do it that way, and i'm pretty sure that they will tell you that they don't - if one lands in the pattern then thats a bonus but they're a heck of a lot harder to kill when they're sat on the ground than when they're still in the air..!! I stand by my earlier comments - when shooting over early season rape, you need a rotary, (Jim often uses 2 rotaries), with as many deeks as you can carry. Any other experienced shots got any views on this one.. Double H. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catamong Posted October 30, 2005 Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 (edited) Come on guys, somebody must have some views on this one.. Edited October 30, 2005 by Double H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Beasley Posted October 30, 2005 Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 Invector, We've got the message first time, no need to post it twice..!! If you expect your birds to land in the pattern every time, that's fine for you, but ask Will Beasley or Jim Allbone if they do it that way, and i'm pretty sure that they will tell you that they don't - if one lands in the pattern then thats a bonus but they're a heck of a lot harder to kill when they're sat on the ground than when they're still in the air..!! I stand by my earlier comments - when shooting over early season rape, you need a rotary, (Jim often uses 2 rotaries), with as many deeks as you can carry. Any other experienced shots got any views on this one.. Double H. You're dead right Double H. Sometimes we do use TWO rotaries to great success on winter rape. And you're spot on with the rest of what you said, they aint easy.......to make a decent bag you have to be prepared to take on everything and that includes birds that dont commit suicide in your pattern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catamong Posted October 30, 2005 Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 (edited) Obviously everybody has their own opinion and experiences, but Will makes a living out of organizing quality Pigeon shooting for those starting out in the sport, i'm only a humble Quantity Surveyor, (but with 30 odd years experience at decoying woodies)..!! Double H. Edited October 30, 2005 by Double H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted October 30, 2005 Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 I agree with Double H and I ALWAYS use my rotary on early rape(up to march actually!).It usually works fine and I cant remember an occasion on winter rape that I got better results by taking the rotary back to the hide.Personally i use the fact of birds willing to land to be a bit more patient and try for a few more left and rights...This is definitely a sign of the pattern been effective,on the other hand I wont complain if they come in range and THEN try to fly away(too late).I just adjust my shooting(and timing) to be more efficient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 When shooting over rape, I firstly ensure my decoys can be seen and I then have movement in my decoys. Spring sticks on decoys are a must in my opinion and I have some sticks that are 2ft long, to lift them over the higher crops. As I have mentioned many times, I am a great believer in floaters/bouncers, these will give movement in the faintest breeze. Finally, I will always try the rotary first, but if the birds appear spooked, I will bring it in, or just turn it off. I also vary my layout during a normal days shooting, if there is any slow down in bird traffic. Firstly, it gives me something to do and often it seems to work, but like most things connected with decoying, I have no way of proving that its effective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth Stalker Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 I find the use of a rotary definatly helps also as many deaks as you can carry. I freeze about 20 pigeon as theres nothing better than the real thing. Cut one leg off so you can identify from freshly shot birds. Shooting on rape can be frustrating though due to the amount of the stuff about. I know from last winter shot 2 birds then sat freezing my nuts off for the rest off the day. We've all done it! Double H If you need a hand keeping them off your permission I would be only too pleased to help out. As all of my land has got winter barley on it. Absolutly nothing about. Cheers S.S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurcherboy Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 Well I am glad someone is having success. Pigeons here are IMPOSSIBLE to pull in. I have tried every conceivable pattern, method and trick I know. All I am able to do is roosting and bushwacking on flightlines I work where I shoot and have not yet seen a pigeon on the rape as there is still acorns etc. Roll on the winter. LB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ochre Posted November 2, 2005 Report Share Posted November 2, 2005 Good point Invector, I quite agree. A perfect decoy pattern should attract and hold birds like a flock of naturals - if they spook, it's usually for a reason and our problem is to identify what it is and solve it. Having said that, I do find it hard to get it right, especially when the wind is variable in terms of direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invector Posted November 2, 2005 Report Share Posted November 2, 2005 ochreI didn`t want it to appear that ALL the birds land in my decoys, although many do, but the majority of pigeons are killed as they drop in to land or hover in my pattern. If you want to take easy doubles getting one, at least ,to land makes things easier! Sometimes birds are drawn away from the pattern because they want to drop into a sitty tree or another bird, which may not have seen the decoys or is more cautious, will pull them away. What I don`t want to see is a bird flaring or jinking either as it approaches my pattern or is about to land. That`s the time I try to find out what has spooked it. I take them on at all angles during the course of the day but question those that panic. As far as the wind direction is concerned, if you watch the birds and notice that they have changed their approach and are now crossing your pattern at a different angle, because the wind has changed a bit, swing the deeks around to catch the wind again. Otherwise they will approach deeks that are positioned unnaturally and usually hover and look for a place to land which is outside your killing area, so making the shot more difficult. I pride myself on the fact that I can MAKE pigeons commit suicide in my pattern!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferretmanabu Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 I agree that it would be quite hard to use decoys only once the rape is tall enough but is it really true that you have to use a rotary? Theoretically, a couple of floaters should add a fair bit of movement as well as being clearly visible off the ground. Any thoughts on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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