abiteachuck Posted March 29, 2010 Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 is there any force that will put fox shooting with a .17 on your fac i thought it was the same rule throughout the uk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweedledee Posted March 29, 2010 Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 mine is on for fox only.psni approved it.i have a 22lr for all other vermin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albob Posted March 29, 2010 Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 when i first got my fac,they gave fox on hmr without me asking but,they took it off when i put in for a varation for .222,which i got. they now apparently will not put it on but,never heard if anyone who has actually asked for fox on the hmr and got it.worth asking about it,if you have a reason for it. mine is GMP. al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blister Posted March 29, 2010 Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 yes i am under warwickshire and foxes have been put on my .17hmr but it only been put on in the last 8 months before you had to have 22lr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abiteachuck Posted March 29, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 (edited) i was under the impression it used to be ok but they moved the goal posts a few years ago ,1995 i think but could be wrong. lancs no chance what if you come into lancs and shoot them is that ok? Edited March 29, 2010 by abiteachuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magman Posted March 29, 2010 Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 i was under the impression it used to be ok but they moved the goal posts a few years ago ,1995 i think but could bw wrong. lancs no chance I was told you can thank BASC for this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesmarchington Posted March 29, 2010 Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 Since when did it become the police's job to determine what gun is suitable for what quarry? Is this role set out for them in the Firearms Acts? Surely their only concern is public safety. Or did I miss something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweedledee Posted March 29, 2010 Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 i thought they worked from a guideline? maybe not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamster123 Posted March 29, 2010 Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 i got my 1st fac with a 243 then i found i did nt use it much so got 22lr on use it all the time i am going for 222 and am expecting them to take the 243 off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blister Posted March 29, 2010 Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 when i aplied for my fac the fao came and seen me and said that they have just put foxes on the .17hmr as vermin so happy days but i have wonderd if i come out of my county am i coverd my fao said yes as its coverd all over the country Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colster Posted March 29, 2010 Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 i thought they worked from a guideline? maybe not. Yeh, the Home Office issued a set of guidelines for FLO's but they don't have to follow them (and often don't). It does say there that .22CF should be considered the minimum for fox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blister Posted March 29, 2010 Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 well happy days for me as coverd for foxes on my 17hmr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted March 29, 2010 Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 is there any force that will put fox shooting with a .17 on your fac i thought it was the same rule throughout the uk. HMR or CF, I have a .17AH for fox (along with the .223) Since when did it become the police's job to determine what gun is suitable for what quarry? Is this role set out for them in the Firearms Acts? Surely their only concern is public safety. Or did I miss something? I think they use a guide for minimum muzzle energy rather than cal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesmarchington Posted March 29, 2010 Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 Yes, in practice they do seem to enforce a set of 'guidelines'. I wonder if they've ever been challenged on the legality of that. I've encountered some FEOs who know enough to have a valid opinion, and others who need it pointed out which is a shotgun and which a rifle! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colster Posted March 29, 2010 Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 Instead of trying to quote this stuff from memory, I actually went and looked it up... Fox 13.23 Common rifle cartridges considered suitable for the shooting of foxes range from .17 Remington, and .22 Hornet to .22 -250 and .220 Swift, though there is a wide range of suitable similar calibres commercially available. In windy areas, where heavier bullets aid accurate shooting, or if applicants wish to use one rifle for shooting both deer and foxes they may choose a rifle in 6mm (.243/.244) or 6.5mm (.264) calibre. .22 Rimfire is generally too low-powered to be used against fox except at short range, but may reasonably be permitted for use against such quarry in certain circumstances. However, sole use against fox would not normally be sufficient “good reason” to acquire such a rifle Interesting to note that these guidance notes do say LR is ok for occasional fox. For the full fascinating read, click here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted March 29, 2010 Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 In some places it seems to depend on whether you are likely to push for it on your ticket rather than verbal - and whether you might impart that information to others, for example via a forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KPV4 Posted March 29, 2010 Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 I was told in my force area that .17HMR's are looked on for more general vermin and .223 was the perfurred for foxes to get a clean kill as the HMR may not knock em dead. Obveously this will also be dependant on distance and skill of the person with the gun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smurf Posted March 29, 2010 Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 in norfolk you cant get a 17 hmr for foxes ,but if you are out like i was feeding pheasants last year with only the 17 to hand are you going to let it go ,its all about being sensible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted March 29, 2010 Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 Please let's be clear on the actual law here. First point, there is no law against shooting foxes with any calibre. Ignoring your FAC for a moment, you may use what you like, period. Second point, the legality of it comes in when discussing your FAC because of the conditions on your FAC. Therefore, if you have an FAC which lists 17HMR for fox, then you may shoot them wherever you like, and there's not a jot any other police force can do about it - it is perfectly legal, end of. If you don't have it listed, and instead have vermin, then you have the age-old 'does fox count as vermin'? question, and that I'm not doing here! My FAC has (for my 22 since I don't have the horrible HMR) 'any other legal quarry' which definitely does include fox. The thing to bear in mind, is that there are two elements to a condition on an FAC - (a) What I can shoot with the rifle and ( the Good Reason for the issuing of the rifle slot. If you consider the need to satisfy both of these then the wording does become a little clearer. The important point is that, in law, the only thing that matters is the actual wording on your FAC, as the only offence you could commit is breaking the conditions of the certificate. So if it says 'any other legal quarry' then you can shoot fox, end of. Vermin is trickier, but let's not go there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abiteachuck Posted March 29, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 kpv4, thats what i was toldm and those are the calibre of guns i have along with a10/22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blister Posted March 29, 2010 Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 so the question has been answerd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abiteachuck Posted March 29, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 Please let's be clear on the actual law here. First point, there is no law against shooting foxes with any calibre. Ignoring your FAC for a moment, you may use what you like, period. Second point, the legality of it comes in when discussing your FAC because of the conditions on your FAC. Therefore, if you have an FAC which lists 17HMR for fox, then you may shoot them wherever you like, and there's not a jot any other police force can do about it - it is perfectly legal, end of. If you don't have it listed, and instead have vermin, then you have the age-old 'does fox count as vermin'? question, and that I'm not doing here! My FAC has (for my 22 since I don't have the horrible HMR) 'any other legal quarry' which definitely does include fox. The thing to bear in mind, is that there are two elements to a condition on an FAC - (a) What I can shoot with the rifle and ( the Good Reason for the issuing of the rifle slot. If you consider the need to satisfy both of these then the wording does become a little clearer. The important point is that, in law, the only thing that matters is the actual wording on your FAC, as the only offence you could commit is breaking the conditions of the certificate. So if it says 'any other legal quarry' then you can shoot fox, end of. Vermin is trickier, but let's not go there! what part of the country are you from, do you shot charlie with a .22 you dont say weather its a rim fire or centre fire also you are talking ******** calling a .17. just my and most others opinion i guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JA3llis Posted March 29, 2010 Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 I have fox under .22lr RF automaticly I didnt even mention it in my interview but fox is under .22lr on mine with derbyshire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Fudd Posted March 29, 2010 Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 when i got my 22lr i asked for fox, it came back with "sporting purpose and vermin control" which i was told by my feo included fox. when i had my interview a few weeks ago for the 17hmr i asked for fox on it, i was told by two feo's that the psni have no official line of fox calibres and that it would be ok. when i got my licence back it had the same wording on it for both rifles - "sporting purpose and vermin control" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardo Posted March 30, 2010 Report Share Posted March 30, 2010 Herts will condition fox on .22lr and .17hmr. Plus the Vermin condition also covers it seperatly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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