Is anybody bothered

[anser2]

Dan reread the thread it not only BASC who are involved with the commttee looking into any potential lead shot problems. The govenment has set up an advisory committee and BASC are just one of a number of organisations on it to give a shooters perspective and influence on any final outcomes.

[dann boy]

may be so but why wont basc let ngo in on there talks i thought all these people were surpose to help protect our sport not try and knife us in the back i think that basc think thay are a law to there selfs and are getting to big for there boots and its not goverment that stared the lead ban issuie it was basc

[David BASC]

The NGO have clearly said they do not want to be on the main group - take a look on their web site for confirmation., they like the CPSA and others will be on sub groups who will be responsible for gathering data and evidence to present to the main group.

 

No one is talkng about a lead ban! And to suggest it was BASC that started this is not correct, read the press reports, it was WWT and RSPB that asked or the group to be formed.

 

The group is there to assess lead and to see what, if any ,issues thererealy are and what ,if anything, needs to be done. The LAG web site should be up and running tomorrow (monday) so we can all see whats going on.

 

Remember, on the gorup representing shooting interests there is the CA, GTA and GCWT with the CEO of BAC as Chariman, a pretty strong team I suggest!

 

David

[poontang]

why is it only basc that are talking about lead ban and are all basc committee members mps in there spare time cos they all lie to us as well

 

 

may be so but why wont basc let ngo in on there talks i thought all these people were surpose to help protect our sport not try and knife us in the back i think that basc think thay are a law to there selfs and are getting to big for there boots and its not goverment that stared the lead ban issuie it was basc

 

Another superbly constructed reply, totally disregarding any fact.

 

But hey, never let the truth get in the way of a good argument.

[David BASC]

Facts are:

 

BASC is NOT talking about a lead ban.

BASC is totally opposed to any further restrictions on lead shot

No one on the elected BASC council or any of the advisory committess is an MP

No one is telling lies

The lead gorup is not BASC's - its Defra's

The Shooting orgnaisations are represented via the CA

The trade is represented by the GTA

The game shooting industry and shooting science represrented by the GCWT

BASC CEO is the Chariman

Defra are the secretariat

It certianly was NOT BASC that started the lead ban issue - as I keep saying there is NO proposal for a lead ban

The only time a ban has been mentioned has been in the shooting press (thanks for that!)

 

Hope that clarifies, but if not let me know

 

Ta

 

David

[dann boy]

david can you tell me how much of the membreship fee goes on the insurance that you provide

[David BASC]

Good morning,

 

Yes indeed , the cost per member is around £10.50. We hold a single policy that covers all members. There is a copy of the full policy wording on the BASC web site and a copy of the insurance policy summary and Key Facts' document as well.

 

Hope that helps

 

David

[al4x]

read the press reports, it was WWT and RSPB that asked or the group to be formed.

 

 

yup and they are the only ones with any research done on the subject, very poor research but just enough to enhance their case. Would be nice to see some evidence collected from shooters themselves to clarify just how raised our lead levels are. Its one thing taking a supermarket bought gamebird thats been shot with lead and saying this contains lead it must be bad, and quite another saying how much lead we actually absorb from eating game. The lead we're talking about is mostly quite big particles so the results of course if you analyse them at source and to the tiniest fraction of a gram aren't going to look good but its very different to lead contained in say a cabbage that has been absorbed by the plant so is far easier for us to take up.

 

On a side note I know one of the people who wrote into the shooting times last week, in his 80's shot all his life been shot which I didn't know so still carries that with him and would make a cracking person to test as he has lived on shot game for most of his life.

[Zapp]

david can you tell me how much of the membreship fee goes on the insurance that you provide

 

This thread is about the situation regarding the future legality of lead shot. If you want to discuss BASC insurance please start your own thread rather than derailing this one.

 

ZB

[David BASC]

There was also a very interesting report published by the European Food Standards Agency - the result of a 5 year study. Most lead in food comes from cerials and leafy greens!

 

Although those who ate game shot with lead had more exposure to lead, there were littel evidence from the report that this casued any problems!

 

David

[al4x]

Well Webber you got a full page in the shooting Times this week, the director of publicity at BASC had better watch out or you'll be after his job

[hyflier]

There was also a very interesting report published by the European Food Standards Agency - the result of a 5 year study. Most lead in food comes from cerials and leafy greens!

 

Although those who ate game shot with lead had more exposure to lead, there were littel evidence from the report that this casued any problems!

 

David

 

So why is this investigation on-going still?

[al4x]

because that is in Europe and DEFRA are being lobbied by the RSPB and WWT with their research. They have a vested interest as apparently lead kills birds, personally I could back this up but my findings are it helps if the lead is doing 1250 or so FPS at the time

[webber]

Well Webber you got a full page in the shooting Times this week, the director of publicity at BASC had better watch out or you'll be after his job

 

 

Thanks

 

I only knew that it had been published when I opened my magazine last night.

 

If you're going to Hodnet, I'll sign your copy if you wish?

 

webber

[David BASC]

Although the EFSA research was very interesting - I think it is very important that we look at lead in a UK context.

 

For example- the way game is prepared on the continent, (using vinegar in cooking for example leaches our more lead) and the parts of game that are eaten (such as offal) in some parts of the continent is very different to how we eat / prepare game in the UK.

 

On that basis alone I would suggest that the threat of exposure to lead from game in the UK is lower than in continental Europe - based on my uneducated reading in interpretation of the EFSA research.

 

David

[Christopher Graffius]

The website for the Lead Ammunition Group can be found here http://www.leadammunitiongroup.co.uk/. It's worth reading the exchange of letters in "Background to the Group" which gives you the paper trail on its foundation.

 

It's also worth reading the Editor of "Sporting Shooter" James Marchington's blog on the subject for 19th May "the truth about the Lead Ammunition Group" here: http://jamesmarchington.blogspot.com/ .

 

Christopher

[al4x]

he's certainly changed his tune

 

Though it does seem a lot of the issues are ironed out now so fingers crossed

[David BASC]

I think that when all the facts are known people often see things in a different light, I only hope others will see this too.

 

David

[Salopian]

I think when all the facts are known they will still ban lead.

We are a minority and the masses who don't give a **** in any case unless it puts 5p on lager, fags or petrol will be brainwashed into believing it is for their good.

So it will just happen, exactly like the wildfowling toxic shot issue.

Is not tungsten, bismuth, zinc, tin and soft iron not toxic?

BASC, God bless them will ring their hands and say 'sorry we tried our best' and the sport will lose a few more thousand enthusiasts.

Let's all take up football, it is the World Cup soon so the supermarkets will be selling cheaper sixpacks of Lager, we can all stab a rival supporter, have a brawl and generally be good old boys. Plus if we stab enough we may get a few contributors to the RSPB, the real villains in all this.

 

Sorry to be so alarmist but that is really how I feel.

Statistically what harm by poisoning does a sportsman cause, whilst we, the general public kill and maim each other every second of the day.

The lunatics have taken over the asylum.

[chrispti]

If we all know a ban is coming, then get ready for it :unsure:

 

I wonder if cartridge manufacturers are getting ready

[anser2]

Salopian , there is nothing to be alarmist about. Shooting will carry on if lead is banned with very little change. Just look at how wildfowling had adapted and the new steel loads are as good as lead ever was. I shoot 100s of duck and geese every season with non toxic loads . lead ... do not miss it these days.

 

After watching this video http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=171603 can you excuse the use of lead ? Look further on utube and you will see hunters supporting the lead ban in deer shooting .

Edited May 29, 2010 by anser2

[Salopian]

Salopian , there is nothing to be alarmist about. Shooting will carry on if lead is banned with very little change. Just look at how wildfowling had adapted and the new steel loads are as good as lead ever was. I shoot 100s of duck and geese every season with non toxic loads . lead ... do not miss it these days.

 

After watching this video http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=171603 can you excuse the use of lead ? Look further on utube and you will see hunters supporting the lead ban in deer shooting .

 

 

anser2,

I do not know who you are, but ever since this thread as run you have promoted the use of soft iron shot.

Could you tell me please, do you own any old, British made side by sides that may have well struck off barrels with a modicum of choke in either barrel?

What do you propose to do with these guns if we are forced you use nothing except soft iron as an economic alternative to lead.

You also regaled us with the dreadful effects that you have witnessed first hand when waterfowl digest lead, do you have any photographs , medical reports, vetinary papers etc., to authenticate your findings?

Perhaps you could forward your evidance to the LAG to assist them with their FACTUAL report on the findings.

I have shot 100s of waterfowl with non-toxic shot each year, not because I want to, it is because I have to, because people like you hoodwinked the powers that be, years ago that lead was more harmful than it really is.

Of course you are, as I am, entitled to your opinion.

But please do not impose unreasonable limitations upon my sport through false accusations.

Thank you.

Edited May 31, 2010 by Salopian

[Rob G]

I was talking to a friend who said that if lead is banned we will not be able to shoot deer without any rifle smaller than a 270,i think that instead of basc fighting this themselves they should be joining forces with other groups.Why don't they send each member a petition form.I personaly hope they don't ban it we havn't been using it for centurys for no reason.

[BlaserF3]

According to anser2's sketchy profile he is a wildfowler who shoots some pigeon and game.

 

I just cannot why he keeps on plugging steel shot when this started out as would you be bothered about a lead shot ban

[anser2]

To answer your question I am primarily a wildfowler , who shoots a lot of pigeon and does a little game shooting. I have been shooting for the past 45 years and shoot 4-5 days a week between September and April. If you asked me a few years ago I would have said steel was not worth a light. But with the new loads available from the States and Gamebore the steel shell of today is light years ahead of the shells we used a few years ago.

 

The development of steel is on going and better loads are coming out all the time. The main reason a lot of people have trouble with steel is they do not know how to use it. You have to think about matching the chokes to the pellet size and range you are expecting to shoot. Go up 2 or 3 sizes in pellet and you will find it makes a world of difference and without much difference in pattern as steel shoots much tighter than lead. At all but extreme ranges the new steel loads will cope with most game.

 

As for proof of the effects of lead if you doubt what it can do just look at the poisoned eagle in the video link a couple of threads ago and then follow the other videos put on utube by hunters . It might open your eyes . I posted a number of links way back in this thread. I used to do a lot of duck ringing back in the 1980s and 90s and I did find a lot of duck especially pochard and tufted with lead poisoning , but as lead poisoning is so well documented ( there are dozens of papers on it if you look ) I never bothered to keep my own records. It was 20 years ago so why should I feel the need to add to the existing mountain of evidence.

 

I have not hoodwinked the “powers that be “ , in fact I have never had any contact with the “ powers that be “ over lead poisoning , so I do not know where you get that idea.

 

Its true many of us will have to think about getting new guns to use steel. I have had to for my wildfowling. I have 2 game and 2 magnum guns that are not steel proof and I rarely use these days for wildfowling. I have had to move with the times and buy myself a steel proof semi auto. I do not like shooting with it , but if that’s the price I have to pay to carry on the sport I love then so be it.

 

Its time a lot of people on here who have never used the new steel loads gave them a try instead of just sticking their heads in the sand. I do use lead for most of my pigeon shooting mainly because that’s what my farmers give me and when I do buy shells lead is cheaper . But what is so pathetic is the number of people on here who cant see which way public opinion is blowing and refuse to even think about change. I have set up a couple of days for later on in the year for a couple of forum members to join me for a days pigeon shooting with steel ( its no good doing it now as none of my farms have early summer pigeon crops.) The results will be interesting!

 

BlaserF3 as for my sketchy profile , it has more information than your profile

Edited May 31, 2010 by anser2