Badger Cull

[wymberley]

Hi,

What is often underestimated about this awful disease is the distress it causes. I used to work for a well known scientific organisation carrying out a badger tb trial. As they were already dead this didn't cause the furore that the other trials that we're all familiar with did. Also, it was regional, there being only 2 of us operating 'in the field' so it was not widely known about. Go to a farm to collect a badger carcass and the farmer will ask, "when will I get the autopsy result?" I had to give the answer that I had been briefed on. "I'm afraid you won't be told," said I explaining why while looking him straight in the eye. What I saw was pain and absolute despair. Gentlemen, I have to tell you it sure as hell ruined your day and it didn't get any easier however many times you gave the explanation.

 

The good news is that a five year vaccination (badgers) trial funded by Defra is due to start this summer in six areas from the worst affected parts of 5 counties.

 

Cheers

 

Edit: Badger added before carcass to avoid confusion.

Edited April 20, 2010 by wymberley

[CharlieT]

955i

 

I'm afraid to say that until YOU have had positive test after positive with no hope of moving your stock off farm and therefore no income because of ruddy bTB when everyone from the vet to the milkman agree that it's badgers that are the primary reservoir you will not understand how important it is to cattle farmers that this problem is sorted.

 

You say that you shoot pigeons, may I ask why as they cause you no problem of financial loss. Pigeons have as much right to live on our planer as badgers. Unless you are a farmer you must shoot them because you enjoy it, it's your sport and your fun. Well if it was legal I would shoot badgers, not for sport or fun but because my livelihood depends on it.

 

In cereal country pigeons are vermin because of the economic loss they cause but in cattle country our economic loss is caused by badgers.................fact. The Welsh Assembly accept the fact, it's about time our government did.

[Paul223]

955i

 

I'm afraid to say that until YOU have had positive test after positive with no hope of moving your stock off farm and therefore no income because of ruddy bTB when everyone from the vet to the milkman agree that it's badgers that are the primary reservoir you will not understand how important it is to cattle farmers that this problem is sorted.

 

You say that you shoot pigeons, may I ask why as they cause you no problem of financial loss. Pigeons have as much right to live on our planer as badgers. Unless you are a farmer you must shoot them because you enjoy it, it's your sport and your fun. Well if it was legal I would shoot badgers, not for sport or fun but because my livelihood depends on it.

 

In cereal country pigeons are vermin because of the economic loss they cause but in cattle country our economic loss is caused by badgers.................fact. The Welsh Assembly accept the fact, it's about time our government did.

Well said sir!

 

 

 

:(

[955i]

955i

 

I'm afraid to say that until YOU have had positive test after positive with no hope of moving your stock off farm and therefore no income because of ruddy bTB when everyone from the vet to the milkman agree that it's badgers that are the primary reservoir you will not understand how important it is to cattle farmers that this problem is sorted.

 

You say that you shoot pigeons, may I ask why as they cause you no problem of financial loss. Pigeons have as much right to live on our planer as badgers. Unless you are a farmer you must shoot them because you enjoy it, it's your sport and your fun. Well if it was legal I would shoot badgers, not for sport or fun but because my livelihood depends on it.

 

In cereal country pigeons are vermin because of the economic loss they cause but in cattle country our economic loss is caused by badgers.................fact. The Welsh Assembly accept the fact, it's about time our government did.

 

I really don't understand why people are trying to say that I think badgers are 'cute and fluffy' or that they are not involved in the spread of TB.

 

I have stated that if the cull is shown to be effective in the face of other means of TB spread then there is no reason it shouldn't happen and also that it is unfortunate that this is happening to UK farmers.

 

The only point I have consistently made throughout is that the cull would be worthless unless all other possible methods of spread are controlled at the same time (ie no dog walking across farmland with livestock as you don't know where the dogs have been previously).

 

Maybe it is that people are only reading what they want to read when someone is debating their views :(

 

Edited for bad grammar

Edited April 20, 2010 by 955i

[al4x]

its respiratory so isn't passed by dogs walking accross land

[955i]

its respiratory so isn't passed by dogs walking accross land

 

But there is the potential that it could be if they come into contact with livestock.

 

Its no use saying 'we want to cure TB, but only regarding the animals we want to shoot', it would either have to be all or nothing.

 

You cannot just say that a badger cull would sort it without looking at all other possible infection routes and addressing them as well or it just comes across as species persecution.

 

As I say, if it will sort it then it should be done, but I suspect that there would be egg on a number of faces when it doesn't stop the spread in the way it seems to be presented as doing.

[CharlieT]

Not knocking you chap, just putting my perspective across.

 

It's a fact of life that many, in my view uninformed, people accept the argument that the cause for the spread and contraction of bTB is caused by poor husbandry and farming methods.

 

Our farm by it's very nature and many others I know are closed herds. The only time stock leave the farm are when they go off to slaughter. We are fairly isolated and certainly to the best of my knowledge no one walks or has access to the land. Our dogs never leave the farm and bio security for staff and vehicles as on many farms is high. Winter housing and yards are as far as humanly possible badger proof.

 

There is no way bTB could be brought onto the farm by stock or casual visitors, the only possible vectors can be wildlife. Most notably badgers. It becomes obvious when badger sets become empty bTB in stock disappears but when the sets become active again reactors start appearing in the herd. Coincidence I think not.

 

Please don't believe all you read about how it's the farmers fault, we have to live with it and I assure you that because the impact is so devastating we take it seriously and do all and more in our battle against bTB and to protect our stock from the badger who spreads this filthy disease.

[Evil Elvis]

:(

its respiratory so isn't passed by dogs walking accross land

 

Thats not strictly true, tb spores can live in the earth for a period of time after being coughed out.

[andrewluke]

in my opinion it's the way that cows are bred to produce more and more milk and this weakens their immune system which then makes them more susceptible to TB,at the end of the day it's greed that the biggest problem,

 

andrew

[al4x]

why is it so prevalent in rare breeds and beef animals then?:(??

[CharlieT]

in my opinion it's the way that cows are bred to produce more and more milk and this weakens their immune system which then makes them more susceptible to TB,at the end of the day it's greed that the biggest problem,

 

andrew

 

 

What about my beef herd of hardy native breeds then.

[955i]

Not knocking you chap, just putting my perspective across.

 

No worries, its an interesting debate :(

 

I am not saying it is down to bad farming or husbandry, just that the current farming methods (which are in effect forced on UK farmers due to competition) are also a factor in the problem.

 

I am not disputing in the least that badgers can be a factor in the spread of the disease, I just disagree with the way it is being portrayed that badgers are the only vector and getting rid of them is the holy grail to stopping it.

Edited April 20, 2010 by 955i

[vulpicide]

A badger is just a big weasel with good PR In EIRE they culled a lot of badgers to protect their farming industry it appears to be working but you cannot continue destroying herds of pedigree cattle at great public expense without looking at all forms of control.Territorial ? in parts of Scotland they are turning up in places they have never been known because ther is no check on their breeding and no natural predators.

[dazza]

How do you think the cull will be done? There was rumours that terriermen would be brought in to dig them.

[al4x]

live trapping and pistol, they won't have dogs anywhere near them it would be far too bad PR

[Cumbrian]

In my opinion and some experience of badgers in a remote hill farming area, the animals have become an utter pest with the advent of total protection. They have no natural enemies apart from man. They are extremely tough - their nearest relative is the North American wolverine, an extremely nasty creature that has been known to take on grizzly bears. Badgers will kill and eat anything, including hedgehogs, rabbits (probably hares, too), and lambs. As for chickens, they will slaughter a whole hen house full of them just as wantonly and cruelly as a fox. (Control of chicken-killing badgers is actually allowed by the Home Office, but just try to get a licence.) They will also badly injure almost any dog that chances on them. A new badger sett will litter a field with more spoil and rocks than you could easily believe. I think their numbers should now be humanely controlled in certain areas. Nature does not always self-adjust.