any fellow shooter know retail law??

[hookbones]

it begins like this...

i bought a s/h .22 semi from a gunshop in Worcestershire for £300 in so called great condition (never shot by its last owner) ..after the £300 cost ,the £17 postage , n the £25 rfd fees it arrived ... a week or so later i got to shoot it n it wouldnt cycle,not even 2 round off minimag let alone subs so i sent emails, made many calls and was told to send it back for repair. another £21 n a few more emails n chasing calls later i just wanted my money back,i no longer care what was wrong,what was dirty,what was fixed id lost faith in that gun n just wanted to cut my losses n get my £300. i just got off the phone having been told i cant have my money back n all he would do is buy it back at £250 no negotiation just £250 in a shadey tone... so now im £100 down on a s/h gun i couldnt get 5 rounds out of so im asking if any one on here has an idea on where i stand on this

 

if so id be grateful of any advice... cheers steve

[Guest topshot_2k]

Sale of goods act. Item is not fit for purpose, you are entitled to a full refund.

[lineshooter]

I would have thought the, of merchantable quality rule applies here as it was not fit for purpose, try Trading Standards but I`m sure you can get your money back, just not exactly sure on the rules of Distance Selling, I`m sure someone will tell us

Did you pay by Credit Card.

[Heladoxa]

Try your local Trading Standards Office for Advice ....Yellow pages

 

Good Luck

[Guest topshot_2k]

i would write them a letter stating the problems and then copy the sale of goods act and say unless you recieve full refund you will be taking it further. Most will refund at this point

[cowboy1403]

i think you might find that sale of goods act no longer applies.if an item is faulty under the sale of goods act they have to offer refund replacement or repair.as he is so say repairing and you have agreed to this you have to settle for that.if it comes back and still dosent work you can go for the replacement or refund.

[Billy.]

I think you need to tell us the make of the S/A .22LR.

 

Some are good and some are awful...!

 

Nevertheless, I find that S/A's are extremely unreliable and inaccurate, so I'd just send it back, ring your FEO and get a bolt action rifle. (Scrap that if you already have one )

Edited June 8, 2010 by Billy.

[Paddy Galore!]

as it's distance selling you have a cooling off period to return the item if it's not up to scratch/ not as described/ or not of merchantable quality.

if the rfd starts complaining then quote this to him. If he still won't budge then contact him in writing stating the problems by recorded delivery, make copies of the letter. if you don't get a reply within 7 days then report it to trading standards, you should be eligible to a full refund plus postage.

While you're at it why not name the shop who did this dastardly deed.

[hookbones]

believe me i soooo want to name names but i know the thread will get knocked off by the mods... all i can say is its in Worcestershire and sells `shooting supplies`..

 

thanks fair folk of pigeon watch once more your all invaluable

 

i will add i spent many years in n around the trade n always took it that on s/h you had a month to make your mind up if it was the right gun for you & was all in order,,,,,,, also this is why im not biting with the theres nothing wrong with it after they had it back for a week.. the gun in question is/was an amt lightning 25/22 so if you see 1 for sale heed my tale n walk away

 

cheers steve

[vampire]

i think you might find that sale of goods act no longer applies.if an item is faulty under the sale of goods act they have to offer refund replacement or repair.as he is so say repairing and you have agreed to this you have to settle for that.if it comes back and still dosent work you can go for the replacement or refund.

 

 

as it's distance selling you have a cooling off period to return the item if it's not up to scratch/ not as described/ or not of merchantable quality.

if the rfd starts complaining then quote this to him. If he still won't budge then contact him in writing stating the problems by recorded delivery, make copies of the letter. if you don't get a reply within 7 days then report it to trading standards, you should be eligible to a full refund plus postage.

While you're at it why not name the shop who did this dastardly deed.

 

Exactly as has been stated above,just been through same with a car (we got what we wanted),helps when ya daughter is studying law at uni in cambridge

[Mr_Logic]

glad I never bought anything from there then...

 

Anyway, the Sale of Goods Act says that the Goods must be fit for purpose, and free from defects. The term "fit for purpose" includes purposes implied and expressed at the time of sale. For example, implied purpose - if I buy a bucket, I may reasonably expect it to hold water. If I advise, at time of sale, that I also want my bucket to hold its volume in lead, and it doesn't, then the bucket is not fit for purpose and I am entitled to a refund.

 

Freedom from defects includes Minor Defects as well. For example, if I buy a coat and some stitching isn't right, then this is considered faulty based on the minor defects clause.

 

Let us consider this case then. The rifle is a semi auto rifle, and advertised as being in good condition. Its price is certainly correct for a secondhand rifle of functioning condition. Therefore, in order that the Seller can refuse a refund, the rifle should be:

 

* In advertised condition - so a secondhand rifle is going to have certain dinks etc, but be otherwise sound.

* Functionally correct - i.e. it cycles ammunition and shoots to a reasonable standard of accuracy

 

Clearly, this rifle does not meet these criteria:

 

* It is not fit for purpose because it does not cycle ammunition. Being semi-automatic, it is clear that it should be a repeating rifle without consistent malfunction

* It is not of merchantable quality as it doesn't work!

 

Therefore, initially, you are entitled to a refund. When you said "another £21" later - what was that for? The Sale of Goods Act makes it clear that any transport costs are the responsibility of the Seller, so all should be free.

 

You have three options of a remedy - refund, repair or replacement. If you go with repair, you will need to give the Seller a reasonable chance to make that happen. Where is the gun now? How much chance did the seller have to do this?

[mossy835]

get rid, and get a bolt action, hope you get on ok,

[hookbones]

the £21 was for me to send back for examination <he suggested i just put it in the regular post> i said in the 1st place i just wanted my money back and notified my feo of the return and why so i could get my slot reopened .. he had a week or so to check it and didnt bother to let me know what he found then after 2 days of calling n being promised id be called back i finally caught him and was told its now working and i could either get it back or take £250 for it n the price was non negotiable.

 

now i know it wasnt "just needing a clean or something" as told nor was it not shooting because "it has a match chamber".. who on here doesn't clean a new gun as soon as you get your mitts on it? and it doesn't take a shop a week to clean 1 either.. i honestly think had i not chased i could have left it 6months n not been contacted

 

steve

[ST3V3]

he's not still got it advertised on gun trader for £295 has he if not he has another

[AlistairB]

As another poster mentioned, Sale of goods only relates to purchases made in a shop, this comes under the distance selling regs which only give you 7 days from receipt to contact the seller with your complaint., but if you do, they are legally obliged to take the item back and give a full refund as long as its returned in the state you received it.

 

Distance selling regs are legally enforcable - your RFD may not know the difference between sale of goods act (1979) and distance selling (amended 2005) but that's his fault. I'd start with distance selling and see what happens.

 

If you really want to confuse him, refer to it as "The Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2005"

 

AB

 

PS Similar applies for doorstep selling if anyone ever gets caught out by it.

[RogerTheCat]

glad I never bought anything from there then...

 

Anyway, the Sale of Goods Act says that the Goods must be fit for purpose, and free from defects. The term "fit for purpose" includes purposes implied and expressed at the time of sale. For example, implied purpose - if I buy a bucket, I may reasonably expect it to hold water. If I advise, at time of sale, that I also want my bucket to hold its volume in lead, and it doesn't, then the bucket is not fit for purpose and I am entitled to a refund.

 

Freedom from defects includes Minor Defects as well. For example, if I buy a coat and some stitching isn't right, then this is considered faulty based on the minor defects clause.

 

Let us consider this case then. The rifle is a semi auto rifle, and advertised as being in good condition. Its price is certainly correct for a secondhand rifle of functioning condition. Therefore, in order that the Seller can refuse a refund, the rifle should be:

 

* In advertised condition - so a secondhand rifle is going to have certain dinks etc, but be otherwise sound.

* Functionally correct - i.e. it cycles ammunition and shoots to a reasonable standard of accuracy

 

Clearly, this rifle does not meet these criteria:

 

* It is not fit for purpose because it does not cycle ammunition. Being semi-automatic, it is clear that it should be a repeating rifle without consistent malfunction

* It is not of merchantable quality as it doesn't work!

 

Therefore, initially, you are entitled to a refund. When you said "another £21" later - what was that for? The Sale of Goods Act makes it clear that any transport costs are the responsibility of the Seller, so all should be free.

 

You have three options of a remedy - refund, repair or replacement. If you go with repair, you will need to give the Seller a reasonable chance to make that happen. Where is the gun now? How much chance did the seller have to do this?

 

What you say is correct except that the Act does not allow you to reject goods (you use the term refund) if you have accepted them. Once acceptance occurs your only redress is compensation which normally takes the form of a repair or replacement. Allowing the seller to try and repair the gun may be deemed acceptance

 

Somebody else has mentioned the Distance Selling Regs which would seem to apply in this case. They give you a cooling off period when you buy goods by mail order, over the phone etc. The idea behind the Regs is to allow you to inspect the goods as you would in a shop and if you do not like them send them back. The seller has duty to inform you of this in a durable form normally either in writting or by email. Your cooling off period does not start until you recieve this information which i am willing to bet you have not recieved.

 

Did you pay for the gun on your Credit Card. If you did then under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act your Credit Card Company are equally liable, that is to say you could sue them for compensation and or instaed of the seller. Write to your Credit Card company explaining that they share liability. (tThey are well aware of Section 75) The reason for suggesting you do this is that the Credit Company do not want to get involved and they then put pressure on the seller to sort the matter out.

 

Finally if you bought the gun over the phone you must of spoken to the seller. Did he falsley describe the gun to you, lovley condition, works fine etc etc. If he described it to you and that description is false then he may have committed a Criminal Offence under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations

 

My advice to you is phone Consumer Direct 08454 040506. They take all the calls for Trading Standards. Tell them your story and make sure you tell them that the seller did not give you your rights on returning the goods under the Distance Selling Regulations. If the seller misdscribed the goods to you how he misdescribed them and that you feel this may be an offence under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations.

Edited June 8, 2010 by RogerTheCat

[tbox]

Had a similar problem with goods bought online. went to http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/ called the number and they emailed me a template letter to fill in which referenced all the relevant legislation etc. sent it to the seller (by email). hey presto all sorted.

 

Hopefully once they realise that you aint a push over, you aint going away and you aint afraid to get the OFT involved, it will come right... Good luck

[JackReady]

What you say is correct except that the Act does not allow you to reject goods (you use the term refund) if you have accepted them. Once acceptance occurs your only redress is compensation which normally takes the form of a repair or replacement. Allowing the seller to try and repair the gun may be deemed acceptance

 

Somebody else has mentioned the Distance Selling Regs which would seem to apply in this case. They give you a cooling off period when you buy goods by mail order, over the phone etc. The idea behind the Regs is to allow you to inspect the goods as you would in a shop and if you do not like them send them back. The seller has duty to inform you of this in a durable form normally either in writting or by email. Your cooling off period does not start until you recieve this information which i am willing to bet you have not recieved.

 

Did you pay for the gun on your Credit Card. If you did then under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act your Credit Card Company are equally liable, that is to say you could sue them for compensation and or instaed of the seller. Write to your Credit Card company explaining that they share liability. (tThey are well aware of Section 75) The reason for suggesting you do this is that the Credit Company do not want to get involved and they then put pressure on the seller to sort the matter out.

 

Finally if you bought the gun over the phone you must of spoken to the seller. Did he falsley describe the gun to you, lovley condition, works fine etc etc. If he described it to you and that description is false then he may have committed a Criminal Offence under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations

 

My advice to you is phone Consumer Direct 08454 040506. They take all the calls for Trading Standards. Tell them your story and make sure you tell them that the seller did not give you your rights on returning the goods under the Distance Selling Regulations. If the seller misdscribed the goods to you how he misdescribed them and that you feel this may be an offence under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations.

 

All of the above with an added kick.

 

You are perfectly entitled to take your case to the small claims court. CAB will advise you on that process or you can read the following HMCS web site HMCS. The retailer will then have a judgement made against them for the all of your costs including making the claim. This goes on record and affects the businesses credit rating. Not something they will want in these cash strapped times. If they fail to repay those cost it then becomes a matter for the court bailiffs. Who canl cease goods to the value of ,plus their considerable fees.

Edited June 10, 2010 by JackReady

[hookbones]

i freakin love pigeon watch

 

oh n yes that is my gun he has advertised and it was advertised there before,during, and after my transaction ,,,so was it expected back i ask myself?

 

thanks again folks as ever your all invaluable <bows>