lending a shotgun

[chewyjack.22]

Hope someone can help me, A friend of mine wants to try shooting before he applies for his own s.g.c, whats the law's view if he came with me and he borrowed one of my shotguns? just for the day and on land i have permission to shoot. any help would be appreciated

 

Thanks in advance

 

colin....

[mossy835]

unless you own the land he cant shoot your gun,he will need a shotgun cert

Edited December 7, 2005 by mossy835

[chewyjack.22]

Thought so, but i was'nt sure, thanks moss

[mossy835]

but if you are out in the middle of noware who will know.

[whippet.22]

Actually 'occupier' of the land doesn't necessarily mean owner, it also means anyone with sporting rights over that land.

[Bazooka Joe]

Chewyjack,

We went through the same crack a while ago, this came from BASC.

 

Lending A Shotgun

Home > Departments > Firearms Department > Lending A Shotgun

 

Not a lot of people know that…… (but they should !)

 

Section 11 (5) of the Firearms Act of 1968 states:

 

" A person may, without holding a shotgun certificate, borrow a shotgun from the occupier of private premises and use it on those premises in the occupier’s presence."

 

Section 11(6) states:

 

" A person may, without holding a shotgun certificate , use a shot gun at a time and place approved for shooting at artificial targets by the chief Officer of police for the area in which that place is situated."

 

So…… What does all this mean to me as a game or rough shooter?

 

It means NO, you CAN’T just lend your shotgun to someone who hasn’t got a certificate - UNLESS you are the OCCUPIER of private land, ON that land, WITH that person, or you’re at a clay pigeon layout which has been granted that permission by the Chief Constable.

 

If you let someone without a certificate use your shotgun in other circumstances, it is likely that you are committing a criminal offence, and you run the risk of losing your certificate and being fined, or worse.

 

Many people believe that if they’ve got permission to shoot over land, they can take someone without a certificate onto that land and let them shoot their shotgun. This is NOT the case.

 

Please, when you are considering lending a shotgun to anyone who doesn’t have a certificate, think of this, and if you have ANY doubt contact the BASC Firearms Department on 01244 573 010. We can help and advise.

 

Hope it's of help.

 

Bazooka Joe.

[mossy835]

sporting rights yes but not if you just got perm.

[chewyjack.22]

Thanks guy's for the info, he wont be borrowing my gun then dont want to lose my cert because i bet if they took that one my f.a.c would go too. Again thanks

 

colin

[henry d]

Ask basc as I did ..... occupier is anyone who has permission to shoot and therefore you can lend a shotgun to someone as long as you are there with them.

[mossy835]

that might apply in you part of the world but not here.i asked my police hq and they said only if you own the land.

Edited December 7, 2005 by mossy835

[Cranfield]

I spoke to the BASC Firearms Section yesterday (coincidentally), on this question and was told quite clearly that you have to be the Owner of the land, not the Tenant, Shooting Rights Owner, Gamekeeper, or Uncle Tom Cobbley, but the Owner.

 

Why don't you take your friend to a Clay Ground ?

There he can use their guns on sporting clays and see if he likes the sport.

[henry d]

I disagree as both the feo and basc said this was OK

[mossy835]

henry d , as i said in your part it might work but not down here as i said the hq told you must own the land,your up there we are down here.the laws are different.its not ok because the basc does say you cant take anyone out on land with out a licence.

Edited December 7, 2005 by mossy835

[mossy835]

thats what i said to start with

Edited December 7, 2005 by mossy835

[mossy835]

henry d, you can not do that go to bed.

[markbivvy]

a good few of the legal staff at basc are ex plod,and have been known to give out the wrong info.and unless you speak to the right man( who posts on another shooting forum)the info you get could be sus.

[mossy835]

c22, you have starded something now but it should be comen sence if have not got a licence you can not shoot a gun.unless you go to a clay ground.

Edited December 7, 2005 by mossy835

[Cranfield]

henryd, my question to the BASC was, "could a Pigeon Guide, or a person who has written permission to shoot on land, lend a shotgun to someone over 18 years of old to use to shoot pigeons on that land, in their presence ?".

 

The answer the lady from the BASC gave me was "No, you would have to be the Owner of the land, to be able to do this."

I then asked if this was a "grey area" and perhaps the Police would turn a blind eye.

She replied that it was not a "grey area" and the law was quite specific.

 

I then asked if this ruling applied in Scotland and was told it did.

 

The forgoing is a fair and true representation of our telephone conversation yesterday morning.

I suggest you ring the BASC Firearms Dept and check the last advice you were given, because I would hate to see you, or anyone else, breaking the law through getting misinformation.

[tenbears10]

Just for interest and not to start the old arguement again.

 

It is legal to lend your shot gun to someone you supervise on land which you do not own but both of you have permission to shoot over, according to Bedfordshire firearms department.

 

The only way to be sure is check with your police force because as Mossy says some forces do not agree with this and it will be your own force you have to explain it to.

[Sargeant Bang]

Stop all this! Just take him clay shooting and let him share your gun while you're with him. That should be enough of a taster for him to know whether he wants to go ahead and get one or not, surely?

[chewyjack.22]

Open'd up a can of worms there i think. Thanks guys its been a great help, clay ground it is i think, better to be on the safe side

[Piebob]

I'm with henry d. Read the Firearms Act, I posted the relevant parts in another thread on this same topic. The important bit is the wording of "occupier" which is generally taken to mean anyone with permission to shoot and not necessarily the owner.

 

Perhaps there are some police forces that don't recognise this as the meaning and that's why we're getting different answers?

 

Piebob

[ROB REYNOLDS UK]

occupier means to live there ...so its the farmer and no one else ..

[BountyHunter]

What about if you are a permanent tenant?

 

BH

[Piebob]

Rob,

 

Do you really think any right-minded person will take anything you post without at least a little pinch of salt? :thumbs:

 

This is taken from the "Home Office - Guidance to Police 2002".......

 

<start>

Shot guns

6.14 Section 11(5) of the 1968 Act allows an individual, without holding a shot gun certificate, to borrow a shot gun from the occupier of private premises and use it on those premises in the occupier’s presence.

The presence of the occupier is normally taken to mean within sight and earshot of the individual borrowing the firearm. The term “occupier” is not defined in the Firearms Acts, nor has a Court clarified its meaning.

 

However, the Firearms Consultative Committee in their 5th Annual report recommended that the provisions of section 27 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 be adopted. This states that ‘“occupier” in relation to any land, other than the foreshore, includes any person having any right of hunting, shooting, fishing or taking game or fish’. In the absence of any firm definition for firearms purposes, it is suggested that each chief officer of police may wish to make use of this definition.

<finish>

 

Does anyone still think that occupier means you actually have to live on the land?

 

Piebob

Edited December 9, 2005 by Piebob