Vipa Posted June 17, 2010 Report Share Posted June 17, 2010 Discuss....... Well.... it might as well have it's own thread!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted June 17, 2010 Report Share Posted June 17, 2010 The question is how do you define 'civilisation'? :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted June 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2010 The question is how do you define 'civilisation'? :( I would define it (for simplicities sake and to give a benchmark) the western idea of civilisation, in otherwords, how most of the G8 countries and thier citizens function and live their lives at this time with the resources available to them... at this time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudpatten Posted June 17, 2010 Report Share Posted June 17, 2010 Four hundred years is a rough average for any given "civilisation" to prosper. If you agree, and many will not, that our civilisation began in the 1600`s then, oh dear, we`re getting well up towards the 400 year and implode mark! Mind you, if you`re a German I would think about suing A. Hitler under the Trades Description Act. In terms of historical time, his much publicised "Thousand Year Reich"only lasted about five minutes. Politicians eh? Could`nt trust them then,can`t trust `em now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamestodd Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 Drop the "Civil" bit and just rename is "Liesation", it will be tremendously more accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
100milesaway Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 Lost cause, springs to mind. from Auntie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Galore! Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 Not going down the pan, just birthing pains before it evolves into something new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted June 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 Not going down the pan, just birthing pains before it evolves into something new. What do you think the new baby will look like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexr Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 I don't know, but I think I might keep a good stock of shells around just incase it needs killed at birth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Galore! Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 What do you think the new baby will look like? So long as it's not GINGER i don't mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexr Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 I wonder if the Britons in 390 AD speculated on life after Rome, or the anglo saxons in 1065 were predicting the end of civilization as they knew it...Change happens, The art is to float to the surface when the excrement starts to settle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malkiserow Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 As a great man once said as he arrived in Europe in the 1950's when asked "well Mr Ghandi, how does it feel being in the civilised world?" Mahatma said "I look forward to it" what a line Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Galore! Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 Revolution is born from suppression. I think the government (which will always exist in one form or another) needs to take a few steps back and let us govern ourselves more. How this affects society in the future would be interesting to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexr Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 So called small government is a good idea, particularly as costs less. Not a bad notion under the circumstances. Reducing authoritarian intervention in our lives will undoubtedly make us feel free, but a price. I think we have to temper this with the realization that I may have the right to do what I want within reason, but I can not inflict that on an other. Or if you prefer, you cant just do it in the street you'll frighten the horses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyr8 Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 don,t now if we ever were civilised or ever will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
humperdingle Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 Matthew 7:12 ....."Do to others what you would have them do to you." Now, i'm not a religious person... In fact, i'm verging on atheist, but the line above pretty much sums up what a civilized society should think like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeh Posted June 19, 2010 Report Share Posted June 19, 2010 So, you are living longer, healthier, richer, plus more knowledge and freedoms than at any other point in our worlds history, and you are boohooing?. Look, the media wants you to believe that everything is going to hell, because it means you'll spend more time buying papers/watching telly. We've never had it so good, and nothing has changed, there are as many Thungs, Yobs, Murders and paedophiles as there has within in the last 10 to 2000 years. The only thing that have changed,the way that news is reported to you (Is many different formats) , so you hear about these things alot more often as you ever would of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted June 19, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2010 (edited) So, you are living longer, healthier, richer, plus more knowledge and freedoms than at any other point in our worlds history, and you are boohooing?. Look, the media wants you to believe that everything is going to hell, because it means you'll spend more time buying papers/watching telly. We've never had it so good, and nothing has changed, there are as many Thungs, Yobs, Murders and paedophiles as there has within in the last 10 to 2000 years. The only thing that have changed,the way that news is reported to you (Is many different formats) , so you hear about these things alot more often as you ever would of. I think you are missing the point..... Yes, you've never had it so good but how are you going to have it when the oil starts to get too expensive, how will you have it when mass famine in the southern hemisphere forces mass population movements north onto our doorstep, how will you have it when water starts to become a rare resource.. Your attitude sadly echos that of far too many of our poulation... complacent, snug, delusional almost that we somehow live in this utopia, a country and world where no bad can happen to us and someone (don't know quite who) will always provide for us. you say that (and I am using a little poetic licence here) not much has changed over the last 2000 years apart from the media.... you have missed out 2 other VERY significant changes over the last 2000 years, indeed over the last 100-150 years.... 1. The climate (getting just a little bit hotter recently, this will cause drought and famine issues) 2. Population (risen from a sustainable 900 million 150 years ago, a level it had hovered around over the previous milennia to an unsustainable 7bn now) You have also missed out the fact that our world is addicted to a resource that has only been around for 150 years, a resourse without which, the modern western world is unable to function... that resource is running out! An excellent resource that, if you can be bothered to read, will help to 'enlighten' you http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/ Edited June 19, 2010 by Vipa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexr Posted June 19, 2010 Report Share Posted June 19, 2010 Time to build that fortified hill farm with its independant water supply then..... :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted June 19, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2010 Time to build that fortified hill farm with its independant water supply then..... :( Maybe not quite yet Alex, unless of course, that's the lifestyle you crave anyway but I do think there is far too much 'head in the sand' going on from most of the population of the developed world! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexr Posted June 19, 2010 Report Share Posted June 19, 2010 (edited) I would have to agree with that . I spend about an hour and a half every working day on the M56 commuting back and forth to work. It strikes me that the traffic on that road is worsening. The idea that fuel will become to expensive before alternative energy comes into play fills me with dread. I am, and I am sure most of us are compleatly reliant on oil for my life style. weither that is getting to and from work, or powering the machines when you get there. or just delivering the pint you have after. It's all oil dependant. Edited June 19, 2010 by alexr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teal Posted June 19, 2010 Report Share Posted June 19, 2010 Had the Jehovahs at my door for half an hour this morning saying the same. I told them to signup to pigeon watch, plenty of converts to be had, sky is falling on my head etc... used the Netherlands-Japan pre-match analysis as my excuse to close the door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexr Posted June 19, 2010 Report Share Posted June 19, 2010 It may be your web site, but I think it's an early bath for that one. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted June 19, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2010 (edited) Teal... I an certainly not a doom sayer and don't subscribe to the 'end of the world is nigh' brigade but I am a realist and have come to realise that the oil will start to run out.... The growing demand from China alone is enough to wipe out new finds in a matter of months. Alex, I'm not as concerned about the motive fuel issue as the plastics and manufacturing issue. Our world revolves around the use of plastics and polymers, 95% of which are derived from oil with no replacement available. Manufacturing of day to day goods, drugs and medical supplies rely on oil with no real substitue available, arable, dairy & meat farming are all absolutely dependant on oil based fertilisers and pesticides. Without oil we have little or no energy for any of this let alone the raw material to produce it in the first place! Edited June 19, 2010 by Vipa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Fudd Posted June 19, 2010 Report Share Posted June 19, 2010 meh. its the nature of things that change happens. it might be an ugly change, it might be a good change, but the world wont stay the same :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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