Leopard attacks hunter.

[docholiday]

Please re-read my posts re this! you will not find a photo of me anywhere standing 'proudly' over what I have killed!

 

Doc... I have already agreed that Elephants need controlling and Giraffe provide food although I am unsure of the extent of damage they do, IFAIK not a great deal (giraffe that is). Nothing to do with cute and cuddly, Leopards, whilst not currently an endangered species are classified as 'near endangered,' Lion is endangered and is classified as 'vulnerable,' White Rhino is 'near threatened,' Hippopotamus is threatened and 'vulnerable,' What harm do hippos cause to crops and livestock?

 

They are killed to put a tick in a box and put a trophy on a wall!!

 

My point is here that the poulations of these creatures are not finite. If there are localised problems with them then yes, deal with them. A lot of farmers would disagree with the wholesale slaughter of fox, just because of what it 'might' do, they take action if it becomes necessary, I am not advocating the rights or wrongs of this but then foxes aren't exectly an endangered species.

 

We all have differing views especially on a subject as emotive as this but please..... do not try to justify the unnecessary slaughter of endangered species for pleasure without the damage statistics to back up that justification... show me those and I'll shut the **** up!

 

 

Hi Vipa.

 

I dont think the problem is that these animals are being shot to extinction, only a small number of licences are released each year, hence the high prices, for the "rarer" species it is not in the intrest of the goverment to allow these animals to be hunted to extinction. there very presence ensure income, and therefore they will be safegaurded. I can assure you if this was not the case they would be killed by the locals.

Hunting is highly controlled in Africa and you had better not break the law as a PH or that is the end of your job and a pretty high fine as well as prison, not to be recomended in Africa.

 

PS more people are killed by hippos in Africa than any other animal so that might be justification alone, there meat is highly regarded. I thought it tasted like sh~~

doc

[Vipa]

so Vipa you don't agree that by them having a financial worth its actually good for their survival? I'll say it again Shooting and conservation go hand in hand and this is no different. As for the financial impact of big cats it matters not, all they do is eat locals goats and cows and their children, no biggie as they are all pretty worthless. However if the cats aren't worth anything and the hunting areas aren't policed the locals will do a good job of killing them themselves by whatever means. When you live in a hut and depend on your animals for food protecting them so nice foreigners can come and look at them doesn't come into it.

As for the rhinos I don't think you'll find they are hunted

 

 

I think you'll find they are http://www.africanskyhunting.co.za/pricelist.html

As are Cheetahs here http://www.africanhuntingsafaris.com/plains_game_hunting.htm another 'endangered' species

 

As I have said earlier, show me the hard evidence of the threat & damage these animals do on a scale to warrant the open slaughter of them rather than the isolated management of them and I won't argue any longer. I know what foxes, deer, pigeon can do over here, I also know what Elephant and (possibly) Giraffe can do.... pretty much all of the other game species on offer in Africa put meat on someones table and provide valuable 'by-products' and as long as they aren't on the endengered list, I can accept that... my argument.... well... there is only so many ways I can say the same thing...#

 

I think Pavman said it far better than me.... 'Leave the big cats alone unless they are causing a problem!'

 

Doc... Understood and accepted (I think!) but it still comes back to killing for pure pleasure rather than to achieve something more valuable...

Edited June 29, 2010 by Vipa

[docholiday]

It is management not open slaughter, only a small number of permits are available, every animal shot is accounted for.

doc

[docholiday]

Likewise only so many ways that I can say above. Go to Africa, do your research and if you still believe awhat you are saying fair enough. I have and for many years (working not hunting) and can assure you that these animals are not being hunted to extinction.

 

I am finished good luck to anybody else who wants to continue this thread.

 

Vipa catch you later atb

doc

[Vipa]

Likewise only so many ways that I can say above. Go to Africa, do your research and if you still believe awhat you are saying fair enough. I have and for many years (working not hunting) and can assure you that these animals are not being hunted to extinction.

 

I am finished good luck to anybody else who wants to continue this thread.

 

Vipa catch you later atb

doc

 

Same here.. atb Doc

[gsm1968]

so Vipa you don't agree that by them having a financial worth its actually good for their survival? I'll say it again Shooting and conservation go hand in hand and this is no different. As for the financial impact of big cats it matters not, all they do is eat locals goats and cows and their children, no biggie as they are all pretty worthless. However if the cats aren't worth anything and the hunting areas aren't policed the locals will do a good job of killing them themselves by whatever means. When you live in a hut and depend on your animals for food protecting them so nice foreigners can come and look at them doesn't come into it.

As for the rhinos I don't think you'll find they are hunted

 

 

Spot on!!

 

It's OK to shoot a fox that has a few chickens, @ 2 for £5 from Tesco.

 

But let some rural african, whose entire wealth is his stock, complain about a Leopard eating them!

 

 

I fear there will be no understanding by people who have never been there, and take the ramblings of a bias journalist as gospel. Game management is alive and well, and does not revolve around emotional arguements from people living in relative comfort 10000 miles away.

I have utmost respect for the people doing it and, if it is partly funded by the sale of excess animals to wealthy hunters, then so be it.

Thankfully at the heart of Africa conservation, there are dedicated people who are having huge success. The White rhino, has been saved from extinction and the black rhino population is increasing. Conservation of all animals is on the increase as their value has increased.

 

Who are we to question and slander these people, from the comfort of our "western lifestyles". We sit in a hedge and shoot pigeons in the breeding season, saving a field of crops! We shoot milky/pregnant rabbits. We shoot feeding vixens.

And we have the time to question the ethics of conservation bodies on the other side of the world(?)

 

 

 

I would gladly take you there and show you, let you talk to the local people, let you see the results of their efforts. We could cover SA, Botswana and Namibia to get an overall picture.I will pay all your expenses if I am wrong, if you pay all mine if I'm right!

 

The OP was about a guy being mauled, and screeming...........................Any one here think they wouldn't have?

[Richie10]

Who are we to question and slander these people, from the comfort of our "western lifestyles". We sit in a hedge and shoot pigeons in the breeding season, saving a field of crops! We shoot milky/pregnant rabbits. We shoot feeding vixens.

And we have the time to question the ethics of conservation bodies on the other side of the world(?)

 

As a person who ferrets, shoots and hunts with dogs, I have never seen the justification to hunt in the summer which I seen regularly on here. Ok Been pigeon shooting but didn't get any....

 

Vipa, not singling you out, but you have no pics at home at all and any antlers you get are thrown away?

I am just saying a trophy isn't a bad thing, it's human nature to keep them.

 

From what I have seen you write before you seem a decent chap and I respect your view.

[Vipa]

As a person who ferrets, shoots and hunts with dogs, I have never seen the justification to hunt in the summer which I seen regularly on here. Ok Been pigeon shooting but didn't get any....

 

Vipa, not singling you out, but you have no pics at home at all and any antlers you get are thrown away?

I am just saying a trophy isn't a bad thing, it's human nature to keep them.

 

From what I have seen you write before you seem a decent chap and I respect your view.

 

I find the whole 'beaming' with pride standing next to an animal you've just shot and then polishing it's skull to hang on the wall a little odd and rather sinister.... just not my thing at all, have nothing against it mind, just find it slightly skewed and very Victorian!

[carlosdesilva]

So these big game hunters are actualy charity workers Lion=medical centre, elephant=school,zebra=water well.They must be nearly finished with Africa what country are they planning to redevelop next?Beats shaking a tin outside Tesco's I suppose.

[Richie10]

I find the whole 'beaming' with pride standing next to an animal you've just shot and then polishing it's skull to hang on the wall a little odd and rather sinister.... just not my thing at all, have nothing against it mind, just find it slightly skewed and very Victorian!

 

 

Same as any trophy then, whether it be made of metal or bone.

[Highlander]

1)these animals are not ‘endangered’

 

2)they provide a source of ‘sustainable’ income for the economy

 

3)‘Hunters’ be they good or bad spend way more to shoot an animal than any camera toting tourist ever does and that money goes (in the main) into conserving (note I did not say 'preserving') the animals.

 

4)Take Kenya as an example, no shooting just animal reserves and look at them, eaten out, no tree cover on the way to becoming a wildlife desert

 

5)We all have our reasons for hunting, a lot of it is in our genes, but in today’s world the 1st world we don’t need to do that. In the 2nd/3rd world they do!

 

6) true 'hunters' are closer to nature than ever any wildlife activist wannabe.

[foxnet22]

Shame it didn't bite his balls off!! Serves him right

agreed .bunch of ********

[Fisherman Mike]

Right or wrong what made me laugh was the so called professionals blasting away into the bush without first having clearly identified their target.

 

Call themselves big game hunters....just a bunch of spoiled rich assasins.

 

At least that Leopard went out in a blaze of Glory I hope that guys wounds fester and he catches septicemia.

[kamikazepigeon]

happy that the big cat got his claws into him quite right to shame about it being shot tho reckon the other shooters shot the wrong thing should of put the bloke out his missery with him screaming like that

[SSS]

This thread is EPIC. I can see a lot of you don't agree with 'shooting', would that be correct?

As far as I can see, we are all hunters, and all do things differently, but for the majority on here against this, shooting dangerous game becomes something else, something more sinister for want of a better word.

For me, if I had the money, I would jump at the chance of 'trophy hunting' in africa/south africa.

I don't care if the profit goes into the local economy or not, I don't think about that when I spend a few quid on fags, and for some, when you go to the pub and have a few.

It is only the same as spending hundreds of pounds on a deer stalk, the carcasses don't go to waste (as far as we know) and you have a good time.

Can you honestly say you don't enjoy shooting and killing rabbits or foxes, maybe even deer, because if you don't, I am afraid you have the wrong hobby.

Personally, It makes me feel very proud when you pull of that perfect shot on a super fast or high pigeon, or get the perfect shot.

 

Each to their own I say, live and let live

[JonnyR]

These animals are not hunted for food, nor for crop or livestock protection, they are hunted by (usually) americans or other wealthy westerners who pay $50,000 plus for the privilage!! These are the same ****.holes who shoot Giraffe and other such animals, not because Giraffe do any damage or cause any problems but so they can say "I shot one" and stick it's stuffed head on their trophy room wall.... we are 100 years past that...

 

Before anyone calls me a hypocrite, I eat most of what I shoot and will only shoot an animal if there is a need. Whether I enjoy the sport or not I would never just shoot an animal for the fun of it!

Bunch of ********* if you ask me.

[groach1234]

So when some American (or whoever) with more money than sense, spends a quarter of a million dollars on a week long big game hunt.... where does that quarter of a million dollars go?

 

Do you know nothing about how it works out there? whether it be a safari lodge or hunting lodge nearly every thing tourist based in Africa has a community project of some sort and from what i have personally seen in South Africa, Kenya, Tanzania and Zambia some are to appease the westerners who go out there on safari to think well at least my money is doing some good and others are there to genuinely doing good for the sake of doing good. And as for where the money goes i think you will find a huge amount of the money for big game hinting goes to paying for permits that are needed before any animal can be hunted (i know in Tanzania at least nothing not even a francolin (partridge like bird) can be shot without a permit. Now where the money goes once with the government is a different story but you can only hope it goes towards the greater good

 

 

So these big game hunters are actualy charity workers Lion=medical centre, elephant=school,zebra=water well.They must be nearly finished with Africa what country are they planning to redevelop next?Beats shaking a tin outside Tesco's I suppose.

 

I think you mean what continent

 

This thread is EPIC. I can see a lot of you don't agree with 'shooting', would that be correct?

As far as I can see, we are all hunters, and all do things differently, but for the majority on here against this, shooting dangerous game becomes something else, something more sinister for want of a better word.

For me, if I had the money, I would jump at the chance of 'trophy hunting' in africa/south africa.

I don't care if the profit goes into the local economy or not, I don't think about that when I spend a few quid on fags, and for some, when you go to the pub and have a few.

It is only the same as spending hundreds of pounds on a deer stalk, the carcasses don't go to waste (as far as we know) and you have a good time.

Can you honestly say you don't enjoy shooting and killing rabbits or foxes, maybe even deer, because if you don't, I am afraid you have the wrong hobby.

Personally, It makes me feel very proud when you pull of that perfect shot on a super fast or high pigeon, or get the perfect shot.

 

Each to their own I say, live and let live

 

Dittoed. I would never shot a Leopard, Rhino or cheetah but would love a buffalo hunt, would contemplate a lion hunt and would be more than happy to go elephant hunting, were i sure it was part of a real cull. I think its easy to get high and mighty over it all but who doesn't have an amazing feeling when they actually take a buck or doe or stag or whatever and this whole mounting it on a wall isn't so people know i've done it, its so i have something to remember the stalk by.

 

George

[Ferret Master]

One of my AS Geography modules which I have just completed was sustainable tourism and we were taught a case study during this which focuses on the Campfire Project. It pretty much summed up that big game hunting had stopped these species being poached into oblivion by the locals and the locals were also better off for it.

 

Love it or hate it, that's the facts and I wasn't taught this by a bias person.

 

FM

[Fisherman Mike]

For whatever reason, whatever cost, whoever sanction it, and where ever the money goes, there are not stable populations of Leopard in large parts of Africa to warrant shooting that Animal. I know this because I am a member, and work for the WWF. If there were a surplus of leopard in that area it should have been darted and reintroduced to another reserve. There is absolutely no excuse for killing an animal like that which is certainly not sport and is done only for the financial gain of some bent local government official, which is where the majority of the money will end up.

 

Shame the Cat didnt latch on to the guys face and leave him with a proper "trophy"

[carlosdesilva]

What a great world this is,if all thats keeping those species from extinction is the fact that some idiot with an entourage to do the donkey work and point him in the right direction can then shoot it.When being told that the cost of certain animals is greater due to the rarity of that species should make you think do i really need to shoot one?

[Cranfield]

I think all those that wanted to comment on this thread have had ample opportunity, so lets close it before we get back to the beginning of the circle.