flash Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 this morning i saw a woodpigeon sitting in the tree in the wood behind my garden i got my superstar out and aimed at it in the back as it was looking away and i squeezed the trigger the pellet hit it and there was a puff of feathers but the bird just flew off without a change in its flight. as though it hadnt been shot ps i was using .22 hollow points and it was at about 10 yrds away. i dont think its the power as i hit a squirrel at 50 yrds with it and it was stone dead any help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon-Boy Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 their feathers are like armour, you most probably hit in the ***. if it was ten yards away did you remember to aim high? depending how your scope is zeroed, you normally need to aim high with close shots as the pellet hasnt had time to reach your aimpoint. hope that makes sense? remember the barrel is below the scope, so if you aim high at close range, it compensates for that distance. sounds like an *** shot to me, usually results in a puff of feathers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOLTA Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 (edited) Hi, I would also say that you did not hit the right spot there and I mean right between the wings. No one should expect a clean kill if you do not hit inside the killzones, no matter what type of guns being used ! Yes, with sub 12 ft/lbs guns a woodpigeons feather can act like armour catching/absorbing the pellet energy and almost stop a pellet from entering the quarry. So only head, neck and right between the wings from behind shots should be used with sub 12 ft/lbs guns. It is a completely different case if you use FAC guns. With a high power FAC gun (going from approx. 20 ft/lbs and up) you can easy takes this type of quarry down almost from any angle going for either heart/lung shots or head/neck shots. The only angle you NEVER should shoot a woody from is a directly front shot to the middle of the chest of the quarry. Even high power FAC airguns up to around 70-80 ft/lbs will not be able do this or if they can, they will have a very hard time of doing it (my nearly 60 ft/lbs airgun can not do it). Cheers, Bolta Edited December 19, 2005 by BOLTA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNAKEBITE Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 It certainly was a "bum shot"!!! I have never taken a pigeon from behind (No sniggering at the back!). Partly because I am never sure it will work and partly because that shot has never perfectly presented itself. Head/neck shots every time. (Had a perfect shot yesterday, collard dove at 35 yds up in the highest branches of an oak tree. Toppled ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferret Master Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 their feathers are like armour, you most probably hit in the ***. if it was ten yards away did you remember to aim high? depending how your scope is zeroed, you normally need to aim high with close shots as the pellet hasnt had time to reach your aimpoint. hope that makes sense? remember the barrel is below the scope, so if you aim high at close range, it compensates for that distance. sounds like an *** shot to me, usually results in a puff of feathers Hi, You are wrong with the pellet trajectory. You need to aim lower at close range because the pellet travels in an arc upwards and depending on the distance you have set your scope up at say 25 yards .22 you would need to give holdunder. FM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNAKEBITE Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 (edited) If you have CHAIRGUN then put all the relevant info in and then have a look at the "RETICULE" section. It will give you all the aimpoints for different ranges. This should sort this one out! EDITED TO INCLUDE If you haven't maybe someone could put up a picture of the reticule diagram. I would but don't know how! Edited December 19, 2005 by SNAKEBITE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roblade Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 this morning i saw a woodpigeon sitting in the tree in the wood behind my garden point one, i hope you have permison to shoot in the woods behind your garden!!!! secondly, close range shots are a hell of a lot harder than long range shots, with pigeons you need either a clean head shot or right up their backside from below. this is where practise on the range comes in useful, set your targets and it dosent matter how many pellets you shoot you will be able to work out the pellets trajectory from 5 yards out to 45 yards. ROB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whippet.22 Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 You are wrong with the pellet trajectory. You need to aim lower at close range because the pellet travels in an arc upwards and depending on the distance you have set your scope up at say 25 yards .22 you would need to give holdunder. FM No mate, a pellet does not 'arc upwards'. You've been looking at too many dodgy and misleading diagrams in the airgun mags. The line of sight merely intersects the FALL of the pellet which is curved, but in a downward direction. When this is shown on a graph they (whoever has made the graph) tends to represent the line of sight as horizontal, this is only so it's easier to read the graph, when in reality it should be angled downwards with the pellet going out horizontally and then starting to fall downwards. So in conclusion he needs to give hold over, not under. As the pellet is travelling under the line of sight of the scope until it reaches the secondary zero (which just to confuse things further is actually the first point at which the pellets crosses the line of sight. And 25 yards is a bad place to zero a 12 ft/lbs .22 rifle in at, about 10 yards is the optimal place as the pellet will always be within about a half inch of the crosshairs from 7-32 yards. Download chairgun and have a play, it's a bit complicated looking at first, but you'll soon get used to it. It'll teach you in simple terms things that are hard to explain with words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferret Master Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 Hi, I have the new Chairgun 2 and can't seem to work it out. Technology scares the Ferret Master FM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon-Boy Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 yes as i said before "Aim above at close range" not below as someone said. You only start to aim below after about 15 yards!!! Depends on where you have zeroed your gun for and how high you scope is above the barrel line. Remember kids, the pellet is at least an inch below the crosshair at the point of leaving the barrel, so if you try a back shot on a pigeon from 10 yards, its basically gonna hit it about 3/4" maybe more below your aimpoint. depends on zero and distance of scope to barrel. Just wanna add, nailed four donalds tonight over a normally unproductive flight!!! well chuffed!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roblade Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 You are wrong with the pellet trajectory. You need to aim lower at close range because the pellet travels in an arc upwards and depending on the distance you have set your scope up at say 25 yards .22 you would need to give holdunder. FM No mate, a pellet does not 'arc upwards'. You've been looking at too many dodgy and misleading diagrams in the airgun mags. The line of sight merely intersects the FALL of the pellet which is curved, but in a downward direction. When this is shown on a graph they (whoever has made the graph) tends to represent the line of sight as horizontal, this is only so it's easier to read the graph, when in reality it should be angled downwards with the pellet going out horizontally and then starting to fall downwards. So in conclusion he needs to give hold over, not under. As the pellet is travelling under the line of sight of the scope until it reaches the secondary zero (which just to confuse things further is actually the first point at which the pellets crosses the line of sight. And 25 yards is a bad place to zero a 12 ft/lbs .22 rifle in at, about 10 yards is the optimal place as the pellet will always be within about a half inch of the crosshairs from 7-32 yards. Download chairgun and have a play, it's a bit complicated looking at first, but you'll soon get used to it. It'll teach you in simple terms things that are hard to explain with words. Well thats confused the hell out of me LOL hence the reason i said spend a bit of time on a range or a quiet part of yor shoot where you can have a bit to ranmge practise basicalyl zero target set at 35 yards a 5 yards aim High 10 yards aim low 15 yards aim low out to about 35 yards aim low 35 yards and beyond aim high 55 yards your looking at a hold over of about 6"ish ROB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P03 Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 You are wrong with the pellet trajectory. You need to aim lower at close range because the pellet travels in an arc upwards and depending on the distance you have set your scope up at say 25 yards .22 you would need to give holdunder. FM No mate, a pellet does not 'arc upwards'. You've been looking at too many dodgy and misleading diagrams in the airgun mags. The line of sight merely intersects the FALL of the pellet which is curved, but in a downward direction. Whippet, Whilst you are technically correct, the pellet does "arc upwards" as the rifle is held pointing upwards to achieve zero at a decent range (only by a few degrees but upward none the less). If you watch old war films or indeed the news about Iraq you will see that the field guns point upwards- same principle! As for hold over/under it depends on the distance you zero your rifle for, if you're taking a 10yd shot with a zero of 25 yds then you will hold over as you said, but if for some obscure reason you have zeroed at 5 yards then you will hold under (this is a very basic rule and doesn't take into account the pellet reaching secondary zero). Very wierd science ballistics P03 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 You are wrong with the pellet trajectory. You need to aim lower at close range because the pellet travels in an arc upwards and depending on the distance you have set your scope up at say 25 yards .22 you would need to give holdunder. FM No mate, a pellet does not 'arc upwards'. You've been looking at too many dodgy and misleading diagrams in the airgun mags. The line of sight merely intersects the FALL of the pellet which is curved, but in a downward direction. Whippet, Whilst you are technically correct, the pellet does "arc upwards" as the rifle is held pointing upwards to achieve zero at a decent range (only by a few degrees but upward none the less). If you watch old war films or indeed the news about Iraq you will see that the field guns point upwards- same principle! As for hold over/under it depends on the distance you zero your rifle for, if you're taking a 10yd shot with a zero of 25 yds then you will hold over as you said, but if for some obscure reason you have zeroed at 5 yards then you will hold under (this is a very basic rule and doesn't take into account the pellet reaching secondary zero). Very wierd science ballistics P03 secondary zero of a 12lb gun zero'd at 25 will be 10 yards funnily enough? between 10 an 25 it will shoot up to 1/2 " high cheers KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P03 Posted December 21, 2005 Report Share Posted December 21, 2005 You are wrong with the pellet trajectory. You need to aim lower at close range because the pellet travels in an arc upwards and depending on the distance you have set your scope up at say 25 yards .22 you would need to give holdunder. FM No mate, a pellet does not 'arc upwards'. You've been looking at too many dodgy and misleading diagrams in the airgun mags. The line of sight merely intersects the FALL of the pellet which is curved, but in a downward direction. Whippet, Whilst you are technically correct, the pellet does "arc upwards" as the rifle is held pointing upwards to achieve zero at a decent range (only by a few degrees but upward none the less). If you watch old war films or indeed the news about Iraq you will see that the field guns point upwards- same principle! As for hold over/under it depends on the distance you zero your rifle for, if you're taking a 10yd shot with a zero of 25 yds then you will hold over as you said, but if for some obscure reason you have zeroed at 5 yards then you will hold under (this is a very basic rule and doesn't take into account the pellet reaching secondary zero). Very wierd science ballistics P03 secondary zero of a 12lb gun zero'd at 25 will be 10 yards funnily enough? between 10 an 25 it will shoot up to 1/2 " high cheers KW Depending on pellet weight. P03 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon-Boy Posted December 21, 2005 Report Share Posted December 21, 2005 Use a shotgun chaps, alot easier!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNAKEBITE Posted December 21, 2005 Report Share Posted December 21, 2005 True, but then we wouldn't have anything to put in the airgun section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferret Master Posted December 21, 2005 Report Share Posted December 21, 2005 Use a shotgun chaps, alot easier!! Hi, Alot easier perhaps, if you have the paperwork. FM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tree Rat Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 Errm ok im confused.....firstly where do i download chairgun from.... second whats a scope? i only ever use open vee sights anything else feels like cheating? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plexer Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 A scope is a telescopic sight mounted on top of your rifle these magnify what you see but please don't take pot shots at quarry again unless you are confident of a kill. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilishdave Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 I hit a pigeon with 32g of 6s yesterday and nearly turned it inside out. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 You are supposed to wait until they take off Dave :thumbs: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilishdave Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 ah thats ware I am going wrong Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roblade Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 Errm ok im confused.....firstly where do i download chairgun from.... second whats a scope? i only ever use open vee sights anything else feels like cheating? nowt wrong with open sites, scopes are more for the benefit of the quarry NOT the shooter, air gun hunting is about being humane more than anything else. What rifle are you using? as most modern rifles really do need a scope fitted (telescopic sight as seen on sniper rifles in the films). as for chair gun if your not using a scope there not much point in downloading it LOL I used it for a whole 5 mins before i worked out you could have more fun working it out for yourself down the range or a quiet area of your shoot LOL as for chronos you have to be very carfull you dont suffer from chronoitis, a very seriouse condition where every shot you take when not in the field is over the chrono, you end up worrying more about the consitency of your rifle than shooting it LOL ROB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roblade Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 this morning i saw a woodpigeon sitting in the tree in the wood behind my garden sorry mate i might have missed the post where you said about if you have or have not got permision to be shooting in these woods behind your garden. ROB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Geordie Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 I was thinking that very same thing myself tsk tsk Lord Geordie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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