fluke2 Posted October 6, 2010 Report Share Posted October 6, 2010 Friend of mine just bought a used 686 beretta on saturday, anyway he said when he fires the bottom barrel it kicks like a mule so I tried it today and it does,on further inspection of the bottom barrel about 3 inches under the forend stock I can see a dent inside once the forend is removed you can actually see and feel it,He rang tonight to say he told the guy who he bought it off and he says its not his problem as he should have checked it before leaving, and it could have been done by my mate, anyone know where he stands with this or is it just a case of Tough luck,its fired 60 cartridges since he bought it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hornet 6 Posted October 6, 2010 Report Share Posted October 6, 2010 (edited) Your mate should have at least looked at the gun before buying it, but........ I would say that the seller has sold a gun that is out of proof*, a big no no. But your mate would have to convince the authorities that he did not cause the damage. Just telling the seller that you are going to make this an official problem, and advise your FEO as as tart may well make the seller reconsider his views. If the worst comes to the worst the dent will probably be able to be pushed out (the more it is fired with the dent the harder it will be to fix it) and the barrels re-proofed. Neil. * any damage or modifications that may weaken the firearm would require a re-proof. Edited October 6, 2010 by Hornet 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluke2 Posted October 6, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2010 Your mate should have at least looked at the gun before buying it, but........I would say that the seller has sold a gun that is out of proof*, a big no no. But your mate would have to convince the authorities that he did not cause the damage. Just telling the seller that you are going to make this an official problem, and advise your FEO as as tart may well make the seller reconsider his views. If the worst comes to the worst the dent will probably be able to be pushed out (the more it is fired with the dent the harder it will be to fix it) and the barrels re-proofed. Neil. * any damage or modifications that may weaken the firearm would require a re-proof. Its his first gun stars in the eyes when looking I think and 800 quid, I had an inkling it may be considered out of proof havent told him that but its at a dealers tomorrow for inspection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted October 6, 2010 Report Share Posted October 6, 2010 Buyer beware. You inspect the goods and hand over the money - it's your gun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluke2 Posted October 6, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2010 Buyer beware. You inspect the goods and hand over the money - it's your gun! My thoughts as well,he was told to wait looks like it might get expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman2 Posted October 6, 2010 Report Share Posted October 6, 2010 Caveat emptor. He wont get caught again buying a croc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soontjen Posted October 7, 2010 Report Share Posted October 7, 2010 tell him to get intouch with trading standard's or consumer direct .. even though he paid his money and yes iit's his gun but the item no matter what should be fit for the purpose it as been purchased for .. don't fiorget these gun shop's are mostly run by sale's men not good friend's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted October 7, 2010 Report Share Posted October 7, 2010 Just remember that many shotguns get a ding in the barrel and it is no big job for a good gunsmith to raise the dent. Rather than fight a loosing battle with the seller your mate should just get on and have the dent raised and enjoy the gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Posted October 7, 2010 Report Share Posted October 7, 2010 Here is a quote from "Notes on the Proof of Shotguns and Other Small Arms": 'Reproof, or the further test of a gun after its original proof, may be necessary for a variety of reasons, of which the main ones are set out below:Indications of weakness in action or barrel, including cracks, pitting, bulges, dents or failure of the brazing of the lump. Potential weakening, such as by conversion to ejector, repair of the action or barrel by welding, electrolytic deposit of hard chrome or other metal in the barrel. Enlargement of the internal diameter of the barrel, or lengthening of the chamber, so that it no longer conforms with existing proof marks. Replacement of action, barrel, barrel lug or extension. Fitting of any attachment, such as a variable choke, which must withstand the pressure of firing. Therefore, if the gun requires reproofing due to the dent, the gun was out of proof when sold. Selling or offering for sale an out of proof gun is illegal, the following being applicable: The Proof Acts lay down that no small arm may be sold, exchanged or exported, exposed or kept for sale or exchange or pawned unless and until it has been fully proved and duly marked. The Maximum penalty is £5000 for each offence, but with provision for higher penalties where, for instance, the sale of a number of guns constitutes one offence. Alteration to or the forging of proof marks is a more serious offence. The only problem will be proving that the damage was caused before the gun was sold. Getting the dent raised shouldnt be too costly or problematic though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colster Posted October 8, 2010 Report Share Posted October 8, 2010 Here is a quote from "Notes on the Proof of Shotguns and Other Small Arms":Indications of weakness in action or barrel, including cracks, pitting, bulges, dents or failure of the brazing of the lump.[/b] Therefore, if the gun requires reproofing due to the dent, the gun was out of proof when sold. Selling or offering for sale an out of proof gun is illegal, the following being applicable: That's really just a coverall for the proof house, I'm sure most of us have probably looked at and even purchased guns with pitting before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Posted October 8, 2010 Report Share Posted October 8, 2010 Yes, I own guns with pitting, but they have been checked to ensure that the pits do not leave them out of proof. The proof house statement could be better worded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluke2 Posted October 9, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2010 Thanks for the info guys and heres a bit of poetic justice update, We took the gun to a local dealer to be checked who told us he sent the self same gun with the owner to a dealer further north over a month ago, so in the car and 30 ish miles later we showed it to a gunsmith who had a quote for repair and reproof (wouldnt say how much) three weeks ago, with the guys name and address,he then made a quick phone call and told us to drive up the road and have a coffee and come back in an hour, went back and heres a very apologetic man waving 800 quid and transfer documents to buy the gun back after extracting another 50 quid for my expenses from him, we bought a lovely second hand silver pigeon (for more) the guy never spoke a lot but shook a lot anger or nerves I didnt really care,he left before us after booking the gun in to be sorted leaving a very happy gunsmith and the smuggest grin on my mates face very lucky methinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Harry Posted October 10, 2010 Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 Well done and a cracking result. You could get a job in the police with detective skills like that. I bet the bloke was gutted when the shop phoned him. Harry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrispti Posted October 10, 2010 Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 Thanks for the info guys and heres a bit of poetic justice update,We took the gun to a local dealer to be checked who told us he sent the self same gun with the owner to a dealer further north over a month ago, so in the car and 30 ish miles later we showed it to a gunsmith who had a quote for repair and reproof (wouldnt say how much) three weeks ago, with the guys name and address,he then made a quick phone call and told us to drive up the road and have a coffee and come back in an hour, went back and heres a very apologetic man waving 800 quid and transfer documents to buy the gun back after extracting another 50 quid for my expenses from him, we bought a lovely second hand silver pigeon (for more) the guy never spoke a lot but shook a lot anger or nerves I didnt really care,he left before us after booking the gun in to be sorted leaving a very happy gunsmith and the smuggest grin on my mates face very lucky methinks. Good on ya mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utectok Posted October 10, 2010 Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 Good result what a igit the seller was obviously an OP gun and he knew it !!! Well done mate . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluke2 Posted October 10, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 Thanks guys pure luck on our behalf seeing as my mate travelled further south to buy the gun, whats the odds of walking into the dealers that sent the thing for a quote in the first place, Anyway my mate shot a 50 bird compak today and hit 27x50 and is well pleased with the silpig he bought and it doesnt kick him, not bad for a first ( second) gun and about his 5th time on the clays :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted October 10, 2010 Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 Top result, bet your mate is well pleased. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluke2 Posted October 10, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 Top result, bet your mate is well pleased. He was pretty sick at first but you could see the relief on his face when the gunsmith said he saw the gun weeks earlier,then offered to ring the guy himself and explain to him the error of his ways Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted October 10, 2010 Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 He was pretty sick at first but you could see the relief on his face when the gunsmith said he saw the gun weeks earlier,then offered to ring the guy himself and explain to him the error of his ways Well there is a gunsmith to trust... bet the "seller" was none too pleased, looks like he has lost a customer and gained too more...proves that its always worth going for a professional opinion... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcyboy Posted October 11, 2010 Report Share Posted October 11, 2010 Well done lads unfortunately some people don't help the sport at all!...it's a shame those individuals are still involved in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arjimlad Posted October 11, 2010 Report Share Posted October 11, 2010 Looks like the seller was well & truly "shopped" ! Great outcome - I hope your pal enjoys his new gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soontjen Posted November 13, 2010 Report Share Posted November 13, 2010 nice end to it then this is the problem as i said they are sales men not anyone's friend . as such most only want your money and seeing someone fresh to it they think they can get away with selling you rubbish thank god we have site's like this well done on the outcome m8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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