CPSA rant

[shaun4860]

Just received a letter this morning about our clubs affiliation to the CPSA.

 

I took the safety officers course when i was a member, it now doesnt expire (it used to be 5 years)

 

So as far as im concerned im a CPSA qualified safety officer and put my name down as the clubs safety officer.

 

Letter arrived this this morning saying i dont qualify as im not a current member!!!!....

 

Its ok for them to take your money for the course but unless you keep up your membership it doesnt count.

 

In the pull magazine it offers courses to members AND non members......WHY if the non members qualification doesnt count?

 

Another reason why im glad im no longer a member, bloody rip off merchants,

 

Sooner this organisation goes down the tubes the better!!!

 

rant over

 

shaun (glad to be an ex member of the Clay Pigeon **** Organisation)

[David BASC]

The info on the CPSA web site says you must be at least a clubman member to take the course.

 

I think from memory the CPSA insurance also coveres members for coaching, training, etc, so maybe this is something to do with it?

 

David

[paulos]

The info on the CPSA web site says you must be at least a clubman member to take the course.

 

I think from memory the CPSA insurance also coveres members for coaching, training, etc, so maybe this is something to do with it?

 

David

 

So why don't you calm yourself down Shaun, ring up and renew your membership. There's a good lad :lol:

[mickmep]

this very topic is covered in this months pull magazine.

[shaun4860]

The info on the CPSA web site says you must be at least a clubman member to take the course.

 

I think from memory the CPSA insurance also coveres members for coaching, training, etc, so maybe this is something to do with it?

 

David

 

I rang this morning and you have to be at least a clubman member or a member of the armed forces....

 

Its still offering safety officers courses to non members in this months pull magazine. (£95 for members-£127 for non members).....

 

 

So why don't you calm yourself down Shaun, ring up and renew your membership. There's a good lad :lol:

 

 

Never in a million years will they get another penny off me.

 

I didnt want to leave in the first place, i just wanted to switch from full to clubman...they said NO, you must leave and rejoin in 13 months time.

 

no wonder they losing members.....

 

shaun.....

Edited October 7, 2010 by shaun4860

[Catamong]

Shaun,

 

Your rant will be well received in Essex, just wait till the Brief from Basildon and the Village Idiot from the marshes get back from the pub and see your post, they'll both wade in feet first in support, but if you think about it, how can you be the clubs "CPSA Safety Officer" if you're no longer a member, (and therefore not covered by the CPSA insurance scheme)..??

 

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me, or am I missing something here..??

 

Cat.

[al4x]

Shaun,

 

Your rant will be well received in Essex, just wait till the Brief from Basildon and the Village Idiot from the marshes get back from the pub and see your post, they'll both wade in feet first in support, but if you think about it, how can you be the clubs "CPSA Safety Officer" if you're no longer a member, (and therefore not covered by the CPSA insurance scheme)..??

 

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me, or am I missing something here..??

 

Cat.

 

 

come on Cat thats not fair posting that at lunchtime, I now have a mix of coffee and sandwich on my pc monitor

[shaun4860]

Shaun,

 

Your rant will be well received in Essex, just wait till the Brief from Basildon and the Village Idiot from the marshes get back from the pub and see your post, they'll both wade in feet first in support, but if you think about it, how can you be the clubs "CPSA Safety Officer" if you're no longer a member, (and therefore not covered by the CPSA insurance scheme)..??

 

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me, or am I missing something here..??

 

Cat.

 

 

I am the club secretary,

 

We pay our "club" insurance to cover "all" people shooting at our club....(£400ish)

 

you cant get CPSA insurance unless you are affiliated, (£70)

 

you cant be affiliated unless you have CPSA qualified safety officers, (£125 a pop)

 

they say you can get the qualification but cant use it unless you personally join the CPSA (£32)

 

in order to get CPSA insurance you have to have CPSA qualified safety officers (Iam was one)

 

Why do they take your money, still advertise that non members can do the course, then say you cant use the qualification unless you hand over even more money?

 

Cant you see the pattern here.....they screw you at every opportunity

 

shaun

[HDAV]

Hmmm I can see where you are coming from shaun have you written to them to explain that they effictively forced you to none membership? I would get in touch with http://www.cpsa.co.uk/bobby-watkins about the matter? As he is specifically tasked to deal with ex members....

[shaun4860]

Hmmm I can see where you are coming from shaun have you written to them to explain that they effictively forced you to none membership? I would get in touch with http://www.cpsa.co.uk/bobby-watkins about the matter? As he is specifically tasked to deal with ex members....

 

 

I just may do that to see what the responce would be......

 

shaun

[David BASC]

I e-mailed Bobby three days ago...no reply, but maybe he's on hoiday or off sick, I have not chased him by phone though.

 

On club insurance, our clay shot moved away from the CPSA and saved quite a bit,

David

[Catamong]

Hmm, he ought to have responded within 3 days, if he's on hols then he should have enabled the "Out of Office" autoreply.

 

Cat.

[shaun4860]

I e-mailed Bobby three days ago...no reply, but maybe he's on hoiday or off sick, I have not chased him by phone though.

 

On club insurance, our clay shot moved away from the CPSA and saved quite a bit,

David

 

 

We are going to next time round,

 

Can i ask who you used and at what price,

 

PM me if you would rather not put it on here...

 

shaun

[Canis]

Shaun,

 

Your rant will be well received in Essex, just wait till the Brief from Basildon and the Village Idiot from the marshes get back from the pub and see your post, they'll both wade in feet first in support, but if you think about it, how can you be the clubs "CPSA Safety Officer" if you're no longer a member, (and therefore not covered by the CPSA insurance scheme)..??

 

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me, or am I missing something here..??

 

Cat.

 

Sorry for not being up on the Essex Mafia but who are the Brief from Basildon and the village idiot from the marshes?

 

[al4x]

Sorry for not being up on the Essex Mafia but who are the Brief from Basildon and the village idiot from the marshes?

 

 

 

PM Mungler he will tell you

[David BASC]

Shaun,

 

we used BlueFin , and saved wel over £100, I have been speaking to their business development manager this afternoon giving him the heads up that there may be a club or two calling to get quotes, so I thought it best to see if he could put a new scheme in place to save clubs even more money.

 

As soon as i have news and a dedicated telephone number I will let you all know

 

Cat, yes maybe he should but I am not going to make a mountain out of a molehill, as i am trying to be as friendly as possible ot the CPSA as I want ot work with them, not against them.

 

David

Edited October 7, 2010 by David BASC

[DaveK]

Sorry for not being up on the Essex Mafia but who are the Brief from Basildon and the village idiot from the marshes?

 

 

'Ang 'im guvnor. :lol:

 

Concrete boots at least (pink fluffy concrete with an Ugg badge naturally)

[Mungler]

Oh sorry, I see Cat's got his "there's nothing wrong and the CPSA is reeeelly grate sunglasses on again" and anyone who doesn't shoot AAA or put a gazillion miles on their car each year chasing registered shoots doesn't know anything about anything.

 

Surely if Sean's done the safety course and it was certified for 5 years, then he's erm safe for erm 5 years?

 

I don't see how these courses expire. I can see how they might need a top up if legislation changes, but it hasn't as far as I'm aware and that's not the problem here anyway.

 

Sean, have a chat with BASC and get it sorted through them. Incidentally I have just done my DSC through BASC (last day is the shooting test tomorrow) and it has been spot on. I might see if BASC do any courses in competition with the CPSA and do those as well just to **** off the CPSA lovers who are reading this

[Raja Clavata]

I might see if BASC do any courses in competition with the CPSA and do those as well just to **** off the CPSA lovers who are reading this

 

Already onto it

[shaun4860]

Oh sorry, I see Cat's got his "there's nothing wrong and the CPSA is reeeelly grate sunglasses on again" and anyone who doesn't shoot AAA or put a gazillion miles on their car each year chasing registered shoots doesn't know anything about anything.

 

Surely if Sean's done the safety course and it was certified for 5 years, then he's erm safe for erm 5 years?

 

I don't see how these courses expire. I can see how they might need a top up if legislation changes, but it hasn't as far as I'm aware and that's not the problem here anyway.

 

Sean, have a chat with BASC and get it sorted through them. Incidentally I have just done my DSC through BASC (last day is the shooting test tomorrow) and it has been spot on. I might see if BASC do any courses in competition with the CPSA and do those as well just to **** off the CPSA lovers who are reading this

 

 

Hmmmmm.......sean huh....

 

It used to run for 5 years, they recently changed it so that it never expires, you check on the website to keep yourself updated of any changes, and they also post any changes in the Pull magazine. (i get the clubs one before anyone says i dont read it)

 

i did my course with a few army chaps who had never had any dealings with shotguns before....i had to explain to them that on a skeet range, stations 1 and 7 couldnt shoot each other (they thought there was someone on each stand, not their fault, nobody bothered to tell them)

 

Now these army blokes dont have to be CPSA members to be safety officers, so why do i?

 

SHAUN

[Mungler]

Alright Shaun, simmer down; with Sean at least I was in the right ball park. It's not like I called you an offensive name like Robert or something

[HDAV]

Now these army blokes dont have to be CPSA members to be safety officers, so why do i?

That is a good question, I dont see how military personnel can do the job while not being members, does this apply to retired Forces personnel? TA? But anyone else can't??? Does seem starnge, or do the CPSA use lots of forces personnel (they are based on an MOD site) as cheap safety officers?

[shaun4860]

Alright Shaun, simmer down; with Sean at least I was in the right ball park. It's not like I called you an offensive name like Robert or something

 

 

your'e really pushing it now!!!

 

Robert indeed...thats how it starts...first robert, then robbie, then bobby, then bob....before long it will be bo.....which opens up a whole can of worms...

 

shaun

[clayman]

If you do the maths, you will note the difference in price between members costs for the CPSA Safety Course and Non-members is equal to the cost of Clubman Membership.

 

Any non- member joining the course gets 1 yrs membership bundled in.

 

Contrary to common belief, course prices are far from a "rip-off" - actually course costs are heavily subsidised by general membership. Just check out the common costs of commercial training courses - typical prices are £200-300 a day with 30 delegates to one or two lecturers. CPSA courses typically have a 3:1 ratio in coaching and a 6:1 in safety and refereeing.

 

Course prices are based on: venue cost, food (lunch included), modest fees to the tutors, and course material. No charge to courses is made for HQ admin time, advertising, accounting or insurance, or training costs of tutors. If the true full costs of CPSA courses were charged back to attendees they would be about double the current fees. Courses are not analysed out as a Business Unit in CPSA accounts, only the direct costs surplus or deficit is shown, but the true subsidy is something in the order of £50,000 across all courses combined.

 

If courses in any region show a surplus after all direct costs are charged over the regions courses globally in a year, 50% of that surplus is handed to the region as part of its development funds, to place into regional initiatives like young shots days. HQ does not seek to "profiteer" out of course fees and any surplus, courses are for the benefit of members, and indirectly benefit to all shooters whether members or not by raising standards.

 

For CPSA purposes, the qualification of Safety Officer is an internal one. You cannot be a CPSA Safety Officer if you are not in the CPSA.

 

The five year re-qualification system was implemented in my time at the CPSA as it was found that Safety officers at many clubs qualified donkeys years ago and had no knowledge of current CPSA requirements or H&S legislation. In particular, they had no idea of how risk assessment works, which is now a fundamental part of the Safety Course.

 

The idea was that CPSA Safety officers would need to go through a refresher every 5 years. This follows the First Aid at Work system of 3 year refreshers. How-ever, neither of my successors in the role of Training and Safety mangers implemented any working system for updating and re-qualifying Safety Officers - so the 5yrs requirement has been abandoned by the board.

 

My own concept on updating Safety Officers was a simple online or postal system.

 

All current thinking and legislation is contained in a Safety Officer's Manual, and this would be available to view on-line or purchase of hard copy. Re-qualification is not course attendance, but an online or postal multiple choice questionnaire with an high correct pass requirement to be returned for re-qualification.

 

This simply requires any existing safety officer to update themselves with current documentation by reading it through and proving they have done so by reflecting their understanding in the questionnaire.

 

I think this remains workable and will lobby for re-instatement of re-qualification as it can be simple and beneficial to all concerned. There is little point in a club having a safety officer whose badge was collected in1980 and had no idea of risk assessment and H&S requirements. A simple update of the kind advocated by me would mean these safety officers' knowledge was up to speed.

 

While a CPSA Affiliated or higher club needs to have a CPSA Safety Officer ( and they are not one if they are not a member, quite right I think), the other requirement of P/L insurance is not dedicated to the CPSA scheme. Perkins Slade offers insurance, to CPSA grounds and to non-CPSA grounds. If you are affiliated (£70) you get a lower rate from RSA as the underwriters risk assessment is a ground operating under CPSA guidelines is a lower risk, therefore a lower premium. RSA underwriters all attended a CPSA Safety Course at Garlands in 2006, and realised how much input the CPSA HQ support system via safety officers was giving - and they considered this appreciable reduced risk of accident and therefore payout potential. If a club is affiliated, they get the preferential premium rate - but this is market competitive and there is no requirement by the CPSA that the RSA scheme is used. If NFU, Zurich or any other Broker or Underwriters' policy is less, there is no reason why the club may not use it. The competitive market is a good thing in this respect for keeping costs down and it would be wrong to insist on a single source of P/L insurance for clubs.

Edited October 7, 2010 by clayman

[Raja Clavata]

Calm down Shane he was only trying to help :blink: