FAC sshotgun

[Tadorna]

Under what conditions should a FAC be granted for a shotgun?

[Devon Fox]

Mine was granted for protecting crops that had extreme problems from pigeons etc where the extra capacity would allow me to do so more effectively. (backed up by several letters from arable farms)

[Imperfection]

Or if you want to do practical shotgun via a recognised club.

[Tadorna]

Mine was granted for protecting crops that had extreme problems from pigeons etc where the extra capacity would allow me to do so more effectively. (backed up by several letters from arable farms)

 

 

as I thought. Now here is a scenario. My answer to this scenario is no it should not have been granted.

 

X gets invited to go wildfowling/duck shooting. He is a FAC holder [.22] and applies for variation to get said shotgun. FEO gets told he has been invited wildfowling. Decision gets referred higher up and is granted.

 

It is illegal to use more than 2+1 shotgun to shoot wildfowl, not so.

 

Why was this granted and should BASC be made aware.

[Scully]

What!

[Breastman]

IF the person you're talking about has actually told you the full facts, then his/her FEO doesn't know what they're doing. Even if you could use FAC shotguns on wildfowl they're normally only granted for decimating problem species like corvids or pigeons.

 

But 'grassing' on them :unsure: Unless you think the person is unsuitable to hold a firearm, personally i would see it as their problem for when it comes to renewal time and let them get on with it

 

Mark

[Devon Fox]

What! :unsure:

 

 

 

I want a pint of what ever you had?

 

Who said anything about wildfowling? :o

[Scully]

I don't think it's me who's been drinking!

[Devon Fox]

I meant I am agreeing with you Scully!

[Tadorna]

IF the person you're talking about has actually told you the full facts, then his/her FEO doesn't know what they're doing. Even if you could use FAC shotguns on wildfowl they're normally only granted for decimating problem species like corvids or pigeons.

 

But 'grassing' on them :unsure: Unless you think the person is unsuitable to hold a firearm, personally i would see it as their problem for when it comes to renewal time and let them get on with it

 

Mark

 

Not so much grassing on the applicant but pointing out the obvious that FEO is not up to the job.

[Scully]

Sorry Hot-shot,I know what you meant,maybe I should have addressed that to the original poster! 'Conditionns' for being granted a FAC shotgun are those 'in accordance with the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981'.Those are what I put down when applying for mine,and I have two.When asked why I wanted another I stated my existing one was a twenty bore,choked full,and therefore was unable to be used with steel shot.Wildfowl was never even mentioned.

[Breastman]

Not so much grassing on the applicant but pointing out the obvious that FEO is not up to the job.

 

Fair enough. However if this specific example is given to BASC and they follow it up with the police i'm sure it'll be pretty obvious who the person is. Therefore unless they have another reason for having the S1 shotgun they will have it taken off them and have a permenant blemish on their 'record' (partial revocation of an FAC - or fully revocation if thats the only firearm they have on it)

 

I'd speak to the person in question first rather than act on your own

 

Mark

[Tadorna]

Fair enough. However if this specific example is given to BASC and they follow it up with the police i'm sure it'll be pretty obvious who the person is. Therefore unless they have another reason for having the S1 shotgun they will have it taken off them and have a permenant blemish on their 'record' (partial revocation of an FAC - or fully revocation if thats the only firearm they have on it)

 

I'd speak to the person in question first rather than act on your own

 

Mark

 

Sound advice, Thank you.

[mowdy]

It is legal to shoot cannada geese with a fac shot gun for pest control even out of seasion if they are a pest to crops or property (eg golf course) or for health reasons .

[MC]

It is legal to shoot cannada geese with a fac shot gun for pest control even out of seasion if they are a pest to crops or property (eg golf course) or for health reasons .

 

 

No it isn't,

 

They are still classed as wildfowl even though they may be shot under the terms of the OGL.

[al4x]

No it isn't,

 

They are still classed as wildfowl even though they may be shot under the terms of the OGL.

 

 

are you sure? my local force states you can use section 1 guns on birds on the OGL which would include Canadas

[MC]

are you sure? my local force states you can use section 1 guns on birds on the OGL which would include Canadas

 

Yes, definetly because the LAW states you cannot use a gun with a magazine capable of holding more than two cartridges to shoot wildfowl. Canada geese despite being on the general licence are still wildfowl.

[al4x]

It also gives an exemption to use a FAC gun on birds on the list so fairly confusing. Though seems fairly clear on the actual license that there is no differentiation between canadas and pigeons etc

 

http://www.naturalengland.org.uk/Images/genl05_tcm6-7669.pdf

Edited October 15, 2010 by al4x

[Scully]

Can anybody tell me why it is illegal to shoot wildfowl with a FAC rated shotgun....what is the reason?

[MC]

It also gives an exemption to use a FAC gun on birds on the list so fairly confusing. Though seems fairly clear on the actual license that there is no differentiation between canadas and pigeons etc

 

http://www.naturalengland.org.uk/Images/genl05_tcm6-7669.pdf

 

 

Maybe so but the OGL only gives exemption to shoot wild birds under certain conditions, they are all still protected by LAW. Since when did NE make and uphold the laws?

 

You still have to use non toxic shot, so if you have to abide by that little law then I am certain you need to abide by the rest. Still you obviously know far more about the wildfowling laws than I do so I will bow to your greater knowledge.

 

And anyway why should I give two hoots, it ain't my licence that will be lost because someone on an internet forum said it was OK.

[al4x]

Maybe so but the OGL only gives exemption to shoot wild birds under certain conditions, they are all still protected by LAW. Since when did NE make and uphold the laws?

 

You still have to use non toxic shot, so if you have to abide by that little law then I am certain you need to abide by the rest. Still you obviously know far more about the wildfowling laws than I do so I will bow to your greater knowledge.

 

And anyway why should I give two hoots, it ain't my licence that will be lost because someone on an internet forum said it was OK.

 

 

hang on a sec you're more ****** they are on the list rather than what is legal or not. The fact they are there says in certain circumstances they are in pest proportions so the OGL gives more ability to control them whether via FAC shotgun or indeed rifles whether semi auto or not. All species on the list are under the same conditions and if you pigeon shoot at all I'd bet you rarely exhaust all other options first.

However it would be stretching the law to go wildfowling with a FAC semi even if you only shot geese as in that circumstances it might be hard to argue, however on a field of emerging beet etc you would be ok under the crop protection terms of the OGL, and obviously you would have to use non toxic shot, P.s aren't Nature England the ones that produce the OGL these days unless they have been abolished this week

[Scully]

So what's the answer then?I know you can shoot canadas all year round if they are a threat to the habitat of indigenous species,but why can't you use a FAC rated shotgun?Anyone know the reason?

[MC]

hang on a sec you're more ****** they are on the list rather than what is legal or not. The fact they are there says in certain circumstances they are in pest proportions so the OGL gives more ability to control them whether via FAC shotgun or indeed rifles whether semi auto or not. All species on the list are under the same conditions and if you pigeon shoot at all I'd bet you rarely exhaust all other options first.

However it would be stretching the law to go wildfowling with a FAC semi even if you only shot geese as in that circumstances it might be hard to argue, however on a field of emerging beet etc you would be ok under the crop protection terms of the OGL, and obviously you would have to use non toxic shot, P.s aren't Nature England the ones that produce the OGL these days unless they have been abolished this week

 

 

Why would you have to use non toxic shot?

 

Oh yes that is right it is because the LAW says so, likewise the law states you cannot shoot WILDFOWL with a gun with a magazine capable of holding more than two cartridges. I would say that outlaws .22 rifles or any other with a mag capacity of more than two.

 

The OGL allows Canada geese to be shot all year round providing all other non lethal methods have been tried and exhausted. It does not give exemption to any other laws. Maybe you do not understand the OGL and you should read a bit more before spouting off like some intolerable know it all.

 

Scully,

 

You may shoot canada geese all year round providing you conform to the terms of the OGL, but the LAW states that you cannot use a gun with a magazine capable of holding more than two shots. It is the law and there doesn't have to be a single reason. You can only drive at 70 MPH on a motorway. WHy? Because the LAW says so.

[Breastman]

Don't really want to get into a handbag fight, but surely the GL is an 'exemption' to the law as ALL wild birds are protected by law under the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981? Therefore if one wild bird on the GL can be shot using a S1 shotgun surely they all can? And whats good for the goose . . . . i'll get me coat

 

All i know is i'm glad i don't have to make that decision!

 

Mark

Edited October 15, 2010 by Breastman

[steve_b_wales]

I just wrote down 'Crop Protection' on my application form. I was advised to do this by my FEO. I also had a letter off the farmer, saying that his crops were being severely hammered by the birds.