Hornady v max in 243

[robbobsam]

Well I have a box of Hornady 87g V Max waiting on my RFD's shelf ready for collection, I will put some H414 behind a few and let you know my results.

 

You will love the results I am sure, I use the H414 and so do a few of my friends and we get .5moa all day long.

 

We get good accuracy nodes at 44 grains, but obviously this will not necessarily work with your rifle.

 

Refer to this to get the build up sequenceHodgsons Reload Data

 

Your gonna be impressed.

 

Dont test the rifle at 100yds though. Do your trials on a dead still day at 200-300yds. 100yds is no measure of a load.

[Mr_Logic]

You will love the results I am sure, I use the H414 and so do a few of my friends and we get .5moa all day long.

 

We get good accuracy nodes at 44 grains, but obviously this will not necessarily work with your rifle.

 

Refer to this to get the build up sequenceHodgsons Reload Data

 

Your gonna be impressed.

 

Dont test the rifle at 100yds though. Do your trials on a dead still day at 200-300yds. 100yds is no measure of a load.

100 yards is a very good measure of a load. Most folk only shoot out to about 300 in the field, and at 100 yards, effects of changing wind and shooter error are minimised, making load comparison more valid.

[robbobsam]

100 yards is a very good measure of a load. Most folk only shoot out to about 300 in the field, and at 100 yards, effects of changing wind and shooter error are minimised, making load comparison more valid.

 

Just because a load shoots well at 100yds doesn't mean it will be good at 200 or 300 yds. I have tried many loads in many different bullets and it rarely follows that a loads work well from 100yds to 500yds accurately.

 

If you are going to shoot up to 300yds in the field you should test your load up to 300yds or it could be a mile off.

 

Example.

I have recently been load testing with my Tikka T3 Super Varmint and I had a one hole group with 46grains of H414 with 80 grain bergers at 100yds, at 200yds it was a 3" group, at 300yds it was a 6" group. If I had shot a fox with that load it would have missed or maimed. I tried it again at 100yds and yet again a one hole group. If I was shooting at 100yds I would use it for certain, but I dont. I shoot at all ranges and need a load that will give good accuracy across the spectrum.

 

I am fortunate to have a load for 87grain V-Max that gives great groups up to 400yds which I use all the time now.

 

You should test your load at all the ranges you expect to use it. Not to is neglegent.

 

I think that is quite logical Mr_Logic.

[Redgum]

100 yards is a very good measure of a load. Most folk only shoot out to about 300 in the field, and at 100 yards, effects of changing wind and shooter error are minimised, making load comparison more valid.

This is very true and I hope you are reading this robbobsam, your 704yd hare caused quite a stir, what is the point of all this long range hunting stuff, to much American crab on U tube. If you are really interested in long range bullet behaviour then maybe Bisley is the place for you.

[scolopax]

I just do not understand why people are even considering suitable fox rounds unlessyou are some kind of fox specialist who takes many 300+ yard shots?

 

Any deer round will kill a fox, so it may not 'blow up' and the fox my run a bit but it is still a dead fox. I would say the vast majority of deer and fox are shot sub 150 yards, maybe even sub 100 yards (I know mine are), so why consider anything other than soft points in the range 90-100 gr. I think some people are over complicating something really simple. As I said somewhere else 100 grain bullets do not bounce off foxes!

[Redgum]

Just because a load shoots well at 100yds doesn't mean it will be good at 200 or 300 yds. I have tried many loads in many different bullets and it rarely follows that a loads work well from 100yds to 500yds accurately.

 

If you are going to shoot up to 300yds in the field you should test your load up to 300yds or it could be a mile off.

 

Example.

I have recently been load testing with my Tikka T3 Super Varmint and I had a one hole group with 46grains of H414 with 80 grain bergers at 100yds, at 200yds it was a 3" group, at 300yds it was a 6" group. If I had shot a fox with that load it would have missed or maimed. I tried it again at 100yds and yet again a one hole group. If I was shooting at 100yds I would use it for certain, but I dont. I shoot at all ranges and need a load that will give good accuracy across the spectrum.

 

I am fortunate to have a load for 87grain V-Max that gives great groups up to 400yds which I use all the time now.

 

You should test your load at all the ranges you expect to use it. Not to is neglegent.

 

I think that is quite logical Mr_Logic.

 

Not quite what your on mate,maybe confused or a little conservative with the truth, it seems you have a fast load that shoots 1 hole groups at 100yds and not accurate at 300yds and another load that your stuggling with a 100yds yet shoots accuratly at 700yds. Your defying the laws of physics unless you you have a source of 243 heat seeking bullet heads.Don't mean this personally as your probably a decent sort of chap and you havent been reloading( or it sounds like shooting) for long. Get yourself a load of books and sit down with a nice cup of hot chocolate and get to grips with the physics of ballistics.

[Mr_Logic]

Just because a load shoots well at 100yds doesn't mean it will be good at 200 or 300 yds. I have tried many loads in many different bullets and it rarely follows that a loads work well from 100yds to 500yds accurately.

 

If you are going to shoot up to 300yds in the field you should test your load up to 300yds or it could be a mile off.

 

Example.

I have recently been load testing with my Tikka T3 Super Varmint and I had a one hole group with 46grains of H414 with 80 grain bergers at 100yds, at 200yds it was a 3" group, at 300yds it was a 6" group. If I had shot a fox with that load it would have missed or maimed. I tried it again at 100yds and yet again a one hole group. If I was shooting at 100yds I would use it for certain, but I dont. I shoot at all ranges and need a load that will give good accuracy across the spectrum.

 

I am fortunate to have a load for 87grain V-Max that gives great groups up to 400yds which I use all the time now.

 

You should test your load at all the ranges you expect to use it. Not to is neglegent.

 

I think that is quite logical Mr_Logic.

I would like to preface my reply by saying that I have done a hell of a lot of work on reloading over the last year or so, and I am not one simply to copy/paste from US websites. So be wary of picking a fight with me and talking ****.

 

You are right that there is no guarantee of accuracy at longer ranges because of short range accuracy. However, when testing loads, 100 yards is the benchmark to use. When you have a load you think works well, THAT is when you head further out. Not when you have just made it to see.

 

I have found, and people that know me can verify this, that most of the time, the short range load does work well out to where ballistics says it will tail off. Not always, but the vast majority of the time.

 

If you have a load which stabilises properly and shoots at 100 yards, then that load will be the same longer out unless things like the wind affect it.

 

You moan about your groups at longer ranges, but could it be that you simply can't shoot? You've not been doing this very long, and it takes skill to shoot accurately at longer ranges. The T3 is a good rifle, but the trigger's not the best on it, and it's quite possible that this opening up of group is simply shooter error. After all, you've not got anything working properly yet have you?

 

I don't claim to be the best long-range shot in the world, far from it - I'm still very much learning the wind at those ranges. take your example - 300 yards, Berger 80 grain. I'm guessing with a stubby barrel and overbore cartridge you'll get 3300 or maybe 3400 with that load. At 300 yards, the wind drift from a full-value 5 MPH wind is 4.3 inches. Consider that a wind change of 2 mph either is hard to detect, and oh look - a magical group increase of 4 inches. Add in that it's 300 yards so you're looking at .5MOA being 1.5 inches, and there's your dire group.

 

the only time I've had the 100yard test not work is my 222, which doesn't quite stabilise a 55-grain, so 100 is OK, and it rapidly gets worse. Not a little bit worse, but a hell of a lot.

 

My suggestion would be more time spent shooting, and less time spent blaming rifles etc.

 

Oh, and another top tip - don't shoot the 80 gr Berger with a BC of .306 when you can drive the 70gr Nosler, BC .319, some 100fps faster.

[henry d]

..... with 80 grain bergers at 100yds, at 200yds it was a 3" group, at 300yds it was a 6" group. If I had shot a fox with that load it would have missed or maimed.........

 

I think that is quite logical Mr_Logic.

 

I respectfully suggest you don`t do that kind of thing with inappropriate ammunition.

[Mr_Logic]

Not sure what your issue is Henry, they do an 80 grain varmint bullet which would destroy charlie quite nicely.

[Redgum]

I respectfully suggest you don`t do that kind of thing with inappropriate ammunition.

I don't think that was a dig at you Mr_logic but Henry was stating that the particular person with that particular load probably shouldnt be shooting fox's that far out.

Anyway, I'm sure this won't be the end of this, I'm off ta pick up my V Max, my local RFD is open late on wed's nights.

[Mr_Logic]

No I did't take it as a dig at me, just thought maybe Henry didn't know Berger do varmint bullets

[Redgum]

Redgum,

 

Is it not about 5 minutes since you were the one asking ultra basic reloading questions and now you are the seasoned old pro?

 

Fister, probably 4 minutes old mate. I have been reloading on and off for the last 35 years, but, and a big but it was 12 gauge reloading. The principle is basically the same, driving something out of a tube from a control explosion but rifle balistics are much more facinating(and potentially more dangerous). I havent been reloading my own centrefire ammunition for long but before I started I made sure I had some tuition and advice from people who know what they are doing.On top of this I have read, researched and investigated every part I'm unsure of. I have a long way to go but I would like to think that from my studies I can see what is utter rubbish. And one more thing I made sure my reloaded ammunition,from much testing,is accurate and reliable enough to point at a living animal.

Edited November 10, 2010 by Redgum

[henry d]

Not sure what your issue is Henry, they do an 80 grain varmint bullet which would destroy charlie quite nicely.

 

Sorry, I didn`t make it clearer, berger recommend 1 in 12 for 80gn berger varmint bullets and the 243 T3 super v is a 1 in 10, but I had expected rob to have read up on that one...............

[weejohn]

The most accurate load i found was from a 65gr vmax from my 1-9 twist.

[Mr_Logic]

Berger's info is the slowest twist they recommend, so 1:10 will be fine.

[al4x]

the simple reason is you don't need to worry about meat damage with foxes so while its one thing being acceptable to have deer run a short way foxes especially shot under the lamp it is not ideal if you want to actually pick them rather than having walkers find them the next day.

I've mates only use soft points on foxes and yes they kill plenty of foxes they will fairly regularly have a second shot on ones that can still move, compare that with a decent ballistic tip and it happens far less frequently because of the sheer damage they do. It really depends how often you go deer shooting compared to foxing.

As for any comment by Mr 704 yard hare personally best ignored IMHO

[jamie g]

we all shoot over different ground its ok people saying most foxes are shot at 100 yards thats not the case around here. here in worcestershire and herefordshire the fields on some of the farms are massive and pretty open in places. a fox doesnt allways come into 100 yards. it dont help that there is alot of pouching also

 

and some foxes are very iffy with the lamp on them. more then likely people chasing them with dogs and lamp. i think ive shot 1 or 2 that have been around 100 yards this year. most have been the 175 to 200 yard mark. if you got the set up i think 200 yards is pretty easy under lamp.

 

the key to it is if your not happy at shooting one at that range at night then dont it is that simple. im sure there are others on here who have shot to that range at night often. and more !

Edited November 11, 2010 by jamie g

[Redgum]

Well actually managed to get out and test my new loads with Hornady 87grain V Max ,H414 with CCI primers. AOL to touching lands was 2.757" and as I have no data for Hornady I decided to load at 2.670". Loaded in 0.5grain stages from 40grains upward off I went, target at 100yds and a very slight cross wind.

Nothing really outstanding until I got to 43gr,2 through virtually the same hole and 1 just half inch out. 43.5grains and a nice little clover leaf, excellent, I didnt load any hotter as don't have data and am only going on what you chaps have said. Excellent result and well chuffed as I didnt really feel that I was shooting that well.

The ES was .43 and the DPQ was 23.456,add to that the EED of 34 and times that by 3 pickled eggs and a packet of cheese and onion you get to .243spoton, excellent .

 

Joking aside( the zeroing wasnt joking) does any one have any Hornady reloading data for 243 using H414 and cci primers, it maybe be moving out of accuracy at 44grains but I'd have to check it,you know what I mean but don't want to start getting into high pressure territory.

[Mr_Logic]

Do test with 3 or 5 shot groups Redgum?

[Redgum]

I start off with 3 shots as I find that this gives me a fair idea of when the group is at its most accurate. When I have found that I'm somewhere near I load 4 of 0.1gram either way and do the same with AOL. I find that the 3 shot group to start saves on loading, pulling rounds and the barrel getting hot in between each set.

[Redgum]

What is AOL?

No idea but it sounds impressive don't you think Fister, you got any ideas.

[Dunkield]

America Online, I think you mean OAL [i used to type that all the time]

[Redgum]

America Online, I think you mean OAL [i used to type that all the time]

Exactly Dunkield, overall length,I'm not dislexic so no excuse, Fister needs the exact spelling on these threads or else you get told off

[robbobsam]

I start off with 3 shots as I find that this gives me a fair idea of when the group is at its most accurate. When I have found that I'm somewhere near I load 4 of 0.1gram either way and do the same with AOL. I find that the 3 shot group to start saves on loading, pulling rounds and the barrel getting hot in between each set.

 

But you use Lee Dies and reloading equipment, so no matter how hard you try and make accurate and consistent ammunition it will only ever be as good as your reloading gear.

 

You use rubbish, you make rubbish.

 

Now I suppose your gonna tell me you have been reloading 50 years and you can clover leaf at 1000yds and your an F-Class champion bla...bla...bla...

 

Yes and we all believe you can achieve those results with Lee reloading equipment .

 

Carry on !!!

[Mr_Logic]

I use a Lee press, and while it's not the best my stuff with me shooting it will always out shoot your stuff with you shooting it.

 

Belt up, and stop being a troll.