Firefighters Strike

[henry d]

Thats fine, goes without saying but don't expect sympathy from those that can't or don't hold their company to ransom.

 

Dan

 

No worries, stay safe out there then !

[artschool]

OK, they have been looking at this for years and as such ahve been losing money hand over fist £420 million to date !!!!!!

Tell me that is "Best value"

 

I would like to think you are ill informed, certainly your firefighter "friend" is, however, it seems that whenever a political hot potato is tossed into the ring, you jump onto it and some would cry "TROLL"

 

well tell you what. you go ahead and strike and you can end up like the miners and the dockers.

 

not everyone hides behind a union and not everyone can strike with veiled threats about staying safe.

 

and i didnt insult you, so that says more about you than me.

[henry d]

Still no reply to the question, please tell us how ................

you could run the fire service with less men and less cost.

[Blackbart]

Firefighters have it hard doing a really dangerous job(according to the HSE there is 22 more dangerous jobs out there in the uk)and not being able to manage on 30k a year because they will now have to find a baby sitter for an extra few hours a week.

 

I think it is more to do with the change in shifts conflicting with their second jobs that is the problem here....

[artschool]

Still no reply to the question, please tell us how ................

 

http://www.communities.gov.uk/speeches/cor...sconference2010

 

i still dont think you understand the point i am trying to make.

 

THERE IS NO MONEY TO PAY FOR ALL THESE PUBLIC SERVICES.

 

so i cant be any clearer than that, it not an attack on the fire service.

[kdubya]

Firefighters have it hard doing a really dangerous job(according to the HSE there is 22 more dangerous jobs out there in the uk)and not being able to manage on 30k a year because they will now have to find a baby sitter for an extra few hours a week.

 

I think it is more to do with the change in shifts conflicting with their second jobs that is the problem here....

 

 

in one.

 

KW

[reddan]

Still no reply to the question, please tell us how ................

 

 

Do you work for Tayside? Anyway I guess it doesn't matter because they all will be the same to a greater or less extent. Accounts for 2009 list 17 members of staff paid more than £50k per year one of those is over £100k, I am guessing these aren't frontline firefighters.

 

Im not an expert in this but I am sure that som eof this could be cut. The fact that each fire agntcy has to pay 27k per year to external audit is a joke, these are not individual companies and should have the accountacy done centrally with comment from NAO that is what they are paid for.

 

Might be worth looking how local councils bill the fire service by the looks of it the fire service gets funding from the councils who then bill the fire service for risk management, payroll and other services, why?

 

I am sure there will be people working for the fire service whos jobs could be consolidated and only exist because it has alway been that way, there is alway slack and room for savings. It sucks to talk about it in such a depersonilised way knowing each person probably has a family to feed but I would rather sack the 100k and employ 3 more firefighters.

 

Dan

Edited November 2, 2010 by reddan

[reddan]

WEST MIDLANDS FIRE AND RESCUE AUTHORITY highest salary is between £165 and £169k per year. 62 staff over 50k at this one. You can't think thats fair?

 

All accounts are public documents and available on the internet. scarey stuff

[henry d]

....I think it is more to do with the change in shifts conflicting with their second jobs that is the problem here....

 

What, like decent taxi drivers that actually know where they are going

[BigMungo]

time for my 2p's worth

 

I don't see why fire fighters get to strike when police dont...surely both jobs hold as much responsibility towards the public?

I know for a fact I dont get to strike and I get paid a **** load less than fire fighters...and for 6months out of every 18, im in a dangerous place, away from my family working pretty much constantly...

As for the arguement about childcare for the extra hours...last week i was on duty from 1630hrs on the tuesday untill 1630hrs yesterday...guess how much overtime i got paid? Nada, nothing, zip. I hardly saw my wife and child even though i work 10mins from my house... Its set to become a fairly regular occurrence with manning levels like they are...did i go on strike? Nope, i got on with the job i signed up to do.

 

BigMungo out.

[henry d]

Do you work for Tayside? Anyway I guess it doesn't matter because they all will be the same to a greater or less extent. Accounts for 2009 list 17 members of staff paid more than £50k per year one of those is over £100k, I am guessing these aren't frontline firefighters.

 

Im not an expert in this but I am sure that som eof this could be cut. The fact that each fire agntcy has to pay 27k per year to external audit is a joke, these are not individual companies and should have the accountacy done centrally with comment from NAO that is what they are paid for.

 

Might be worth looking how local councils bill the fire service by the looks of it the fire service gets funding from the councils who then bill the fire service for risk management, payroll and other services, why?

 

I am sure there will be people working for the fire service whos jobs could be consolidated and only exist because it has alway been that way, there is alway slack and room for savings. It sucks to talk about it in such a depersonilised way knowing each person probably has a family to feed but I would rather sack the 100k and employ 3 more firefighters.

 

Dan

 

I have no problems with Steve Hunter getting "consolidated" (sacked as you put it)however who then runs the service ? Bobby in stores ?? Will a firemaster allow himself to get sacked or will he get his lackies to say that a fire appliance and it`s crew are better to be removed than him ??

 

Risk management/HR/Payroll/stores/vehicle maintenance are all in house.

 

It costs nearly £1mil to run an appliance for a year, and that is just pay, for a retained pump around £70-80K do you want a service that is just part time ? Firefighters that are at work or home in bed and will take 3-10 minutes to get to work never mind to the job ?

 

Since 1978 TF&R has had a reduction of one member of staff, yes 32 years without an increase in frontline staff. Can you name any other service like that ? Can you tell me where we can reduce our staff further ?

[Blackbart]

What, like decent taxi drivers that actually know where they are going

 

 

Your probably more likely to be injured being a taxi driver than a fireman. If all the taxi drivers went on strike people wouldnt be more likely to die in a burning building because there wasnt enough of us working that night. Taxi drivers dont mind paying for a childminder if we have to work a couple of hours outside of our normal shifts because it isnt anything to throw a hissy fit over now is it ?

 

ps Some drivers just pretend to not know where they are going because the person in the back is an rsole....has it happened often ?

[henry d]

...guess how much overtime i got paid? Nada, nothing, zip. I hardly saw my wife and child even though i work 10mins from my house... Its set to become a fairly regular occurrence with manning levels like they are...did i go on strike? Nope, i got on with the job i signed up to do.

 

BigMungo out.

 

Well done, I think you missed the bit where firefighters were going to be sacked and re-employed on new terms, not exactly what they signed up for eh ?

 

I think that is what they are striking for ?

[henry d]

Your probably more likely to be injured being a taxi driver than a firemanAnd your proof is ?. If all the taxi drivers went on strike people wouldnt be more likely to die in a burning building because there wasnt enough of us working that night. Taxi drivers dont mind paying for a childminder if we have to work a couple of hours outside of our normal shifts because it isnt anything to throw a hissy fit over now is it ?I would imagine that it would be because the vast majority are self employed and can adjust their times accordingly (or take the kids to school with the other kids they are being paid to take)

 

ps Some drivers just pretend to not know where they are going because the person in the back is an rsole....has it happened often ?Nope, I am better than satnav for my area mukka and it`s all upstairs not on the windscreen in front of me

[Billy.]

Sorry, I only just got a chance to see and reply to this

 

Whilst I know that death rates aren't hugely high during bonfire night, it's still the one night of the year that all differences should be put aside, to ensure that people aren't put at an increased risk of dying. You've got thousands of shows, hundreds of thousands of amateur pyrotechnicians trying the strangest of things in the garden and kids watching most of this, something can potentially go wrong. Along with this, you've got a hundred times more fires in gardens than there would usually be...

 

I'm putting myself in the shoes of a fireman, faced with the contractual changes etc and yes, I'd not be happy, but I'd be ashamed to say that I wasn't willing to help on the busiest night of the year and I'd be mortified if I knew that my actions had indirectly lead to someone in my area dying, due to a lack of staff.

 

I didn't say you're not worth your salary. You're welcome to reread my posts. My point is the above.

 

How many people lose their lives on bonfire night every year ?

 

How many firefighters lose their lives every year ?

 

How many people in (add your job title) die every year ?

 

I work for £28K a year, over 48 hrs if you have a theory of how much I am worth, place yourself in a building alight or in a car upside down or a multi storey building that has had a plane flown into it and tell me I am not worth it.

 

BTW - I am also ex-forces(Falklands etc.)

[henry d]

No-one is obliged to have a bonfire, set off fireworks etc. it is a choice of one person.

 

Wait a day and then have a bonfire....................... hey it`s a Saturday, sorted !

[BigMungo]

Well done, I think you missed the bit where firefighters were going to be sacked and re-employed on new terms, not exactly what they signed up for eh ?

 

I think that is what they are striking for ?

Can i draw your attention to the first point of my post...

I don't see why fire fighters get to strike when police dont...surely both jobs hold as much responsibility towards the public?

Im not trying to get in a slanging match...i have sympathy for the firefighters...just not the way they are going about things.

[henry d]

Can i draw your attention to the first point of my post...

 

Coppers sold out their right to strike and got more dosh................... I`m £8k down on an equivalent copper. I still prefer my rights to strike though.

[Blackbart]

Coppers sold out their right to strike and got more dosh................... I`m £8k down on an equivalent copper. I still prefer my rights to strike though.

 

No such thing as an equivalent copper,they dont get payed to sleep at work.The police get payed more cos they work more simples

[bignoel]

i know a part time fireman who receives £800 a month and he is never at work ?

[Mungler]

The thread is pointless but an interesting mud-fling-fest.

 

Mark my words, changes will be implemented, the strike will get the fireman nowhere apart from diminished public support, and anyone reading back on this post in 1 years time will say blimey that Mungler's spot on again, how does he do it?

 

Fireman, tube workers and people who work for the Royal Mail - fair play you can go down fighting, but you can't fight change forever.

[Cookiemonsterandmerlin.]

The only thing I can ad myself is if some in the days of lesser employee rights had not fought for change to all OUR employment rights ,then some of us would not enjoy paid holidays even you days off.

 

Lets face it ever employer would remove your rights if they had there way so have a little think about what you would do if your employer called you into the office today and asked you to sign a contract saying some major changes to how you work .

 

And yes I dont think the firefighters have a rough deal but they could do in years to come if they rollover.

 

Its like the teachers and one PW members who was a teacher himself enjoying some great terms ,who thought BA workers had no right to strike etc.

 

But some of the terms he himself enjoyed today was fought for by teachers in the mid 80s.

 

Regards OTH

Edited November 3, 2010 by Over the hill

[pegleg31]

as i see it firemen are peeved because it will affect there second job's.and that's it.

 

 

in the current climate people should be happy with still having a job!!.will the fire services salary drop?(i lose interest in strikes when so ,many people are struggling for work)

 

however i see no reason to change something that has worked for so many years

[KPV4]

I have no problems with Steve Hunter getting "consolidated" (sacked as you put it)however who then runs the service ? Bobby in stores ?? Will a firemaster allow himself to get sacked or will he get his lackies to say that a fire appliance and it`s crew are better to be removed than him ??

 

Risk management/HR/Payroll/stores/vehicle maintenance are all in house.

 

It costs nearly £1mil to run an appliance for a year, and that is just pay, for a retained pump around £70-80K do you want a service that is just part time ? Firefighters that are at work or home in bed and will take 3-10 minutes to get to work never mind to the job ?

 

Since 1978 TF&R has had a reduction of one member of staff, yes 32 years without an increase in frontline staff. Can you name any other service like that ? Can you tell me where we can reduce our staff further ?

 

 

 

I have to agree with most of the argument you make Other than the one about the retained duty system

 

I think the retained service provide and excellent service (I would because I have been retained for 20 years) throughout this country and without it the whole time service would be un-sustainable due to its cost. I won't get into a whole time / retained thing because there has been too much of that in the past and it should never happen. But I don't agree with your innuendo that the retained system is possibly a second class service, and that we take longer to mobilise an appliance. This may be the case in your area, but this is not the norm throughout the country. We have a whole time day crew on station 5 days a week and when the bells go down I can assure you we have a crew in the station before the whole time have turned a wheel. On average the retained mobilise an appliance in our area within 3-4 minutes (on the road) from the time the alerters actuate wherever they may be, at work or home, also tell me what other job in this country offers a service where someone presses a button a 3 A.M and has 20 persons running to one place within 3-4 minutes to man a pump to go to who know what for £15.

 

I'm not going to be drawn in to the debate whether striking is right or wrong, or if the fire-service should be allowed to. But those who moan they are working 24 hours a day for no extra, you always have the working time directive to fall back on, and as has been said during this post you knew what you signed up for

[bullet1747]

Well done, I think you missed the bit where firefighters were going to be sacked and re-employed on new terms, not exactly what they signed up for eh ?

 

I think that is what they are striking for ?

they still have a very good job there at home doing fiddle jobs more than being at work putting fies out .they should not e able to strike it is a gov service,i use to do 12 hrs on duty 12 hours of duty for 28 days at a time in NI (85 to 87) hang on sir i cant be ***** to do that im on strike ,