diesel fuel

[ferrodo]

Hi all,

maybe it's just me and an over active imagination but my wagon seems to perform better some times then others. It can feel really smooth and responsive and a joy to drive and stay like this for some time. Then, it seems as if the performance just drops off and feels sluggish and gutless. I can't really give you anymore detail as the motor revs freely under load, starts well and generally doesn't give cause for concern. I am begining to wonder if different diesel fuels from different filling stations can give this effect. I don't know, like I say could just be me........or could it?

R

[garygreengrass]

What wagon have you got ? Have checked the fuel filter?

[ferrodo]

What wagon have you got ? Have checked the fuel filter?

 

It's a 2.5 shogun. All serviced and hugged above and beyond the call of duty.

[4eyes]

It's a 2.5 shogun. All serviced and hugged above and beyond the call of duty.

 

 

I get exactly the same. All depends on where I fill up. For info I have a 320d.

 

If I fill up at shell the car is nice and smooth, no real smoke, and feels like its got some real poke. If I fill up at Jet, the same but I get 20 miles less per tank. If I fill at Asda/Tesco it drops roughly 35 miles per tank and smokes a little, with a percived drop in power. Just what your describing.

 

If I fill up at Morrisons it looks like I'm some sort of cherokee calling for help the car smokes that bad under load. That, and i loose near 50 miles per tank on what I get from Shell fuel and the car is 'sluggish' in comparison.

 

After some fretting thinking the cars b*****ed, and a bit of net research, its all down to the amount of bio-diesel thats been blended in the fuel at each station. Morrisons use upto 7% bi-diesel in their fuel and my motor just does not like it. It does not burn right in my motor hence the power loss, smoke and decreased efficiency. Shell on the other hand dont put more than 1% in the mix, hence the behaviour. So, shell only for me I'm afraid.

 

 

The company Passat, in the handbook, explicitly says dont put diesel in it that has ANY composition of bio-diesel, so Morrisons at 7.5% has to be really bad for the PD engines. The high pressue pump and injectors uses the fuel as a lubricant, but bio-diesel does not have the same lubricating properties as real diesel so can induce premature failure.

 

So, in short, yes I know what you mean, although there is a minimum standard for fuel, there is still a difference between retailers.

[mossy835]

my boy gets more to the gallon from sainburys,than other garages.

[ferrodo]

I get exactly the same. All depends on where I fill up. For info I have a 320d.

 

If I fill up at shell the car is nice and smooth, no real smoke, and feels like its got some real poke. If I fill up at Jet, the same but I get 20 miles less per tank. If I fill at Asda/Tesco it drops roughly 35 miles per tank and smokes a little, with a percived drop in power. Just what your describing.

 

If I fill up at Morrisons it looks like I'm some sort of cherokee calling for help the car smokes that bad under load. That, and i loose near 50 miles per tank on what I get from Shell fuel and the car is 'sluggish' in comparison.

 

After some fretting thinking the cars b*****ed, and a bit of net research, its all down to the amount of bio-diesel thats been blended in the fuel at each station. Morrisons use upto 7% bi-diesel in their fuel and my motor just does not like it. It does not burn right in my motor hence the power loss, smoke and decreased efficiency. Shell on the other hand dont put more than 1% in the mix, hence the behaviour. So, shell only for me I'm afraid.

 

 

The company Passat, in the handbook, explicitly says dont put diesel in it that has ANY composition of bio-diesel, so Morrisons at 7.5% has to be really bad for the PD engines. The high pressue pump and injectors uses the fuel as a lubricant, but bio-diesel does not have the same lubricating properties as real diesel so can induce premature failure.

 

So, in short, yes I know what you mean, although there is a minimum standard for fuel, there is still a difference between retailers.

 

Well thanks 4eyes,

at least I know I'm not the only one. Now I shall have to check the book of words as to what it says about diesel types although I don't remember seeing anything.

[Chally2]

I swore that tescos etc. fuel gave less mpg, so its good to know why. I always puts shell in if I can.

[Moors Man]

I swore that tescos etc. fuel gave less mpg, so its good to know why. I always puts shell in if I can.

 

My Disco 2 hates tesco or sainsbury fuel, not checked mpg but sluggish etc. Just had new fuel pump and filters and filled up at Tesco just to save 5p a litre and same problem. Its happiest on shell and jet. I also do feel that the new shell fuelsave seems to be a good buy.

[biakalblaster]

interesting - i filled the landcruiser up at morrisons a couple times and was only getting 22mpg,

then filled up at Shell and got 24mpg on that tank, filled up this last time though,

so will have to see how that does. will have to keep a record of what place i use and the mpg, to see if there is definitely a correlation long-term

[ProteuS]

For a long time I've been a believer that Shell does some of the best fuels, particularly their high octane petrol. I nearly always use the Shell locally to me as it is generally the most competetive too.

 

In trucks like the fourtrak and the 300tdi 90 I must admit i don't really notice a difference. they tend to be fairly agricultural and chug through most fuels.

[4eyes]

For a long time I've been a believer that Shell does some of the best fuels, particularly their high octane petrol. I nearly always use the Shell locally to me as it is generally the most competetive too.

 

In trucks like the fourtrak and the 300tdi 90 I must admit i don't really notice a difference. they tend to be fairly agricultural and chug through most fuels.

 

Thats true of most engines with a mechanical diesel pump, they will pretty much burn anything thats remotley flamable as they work pretty much like an older carb based petrol engine in that fuel is put in to the cylinder at the same every cycle.

 

MOre modern diesel engines that use high pressure (300 bar ish) injection systems they try to be a bit clever to save fuel; TDCI, HDI etc. They inject at 'optimum' time for efficiency but this is based on the fuel being of a certain quality or more specificaly - volatility. Bio-diesel changes the properties of the fuel and as a lot of these modern cars are not set-up for bio-diesel, and the content changes from retailer to retailer, we get these issues. Retailers try blend in what they can get away with to make cheaper fuel.

[jimbo30]

Cheap diesel for a reason!! Higher water content and general unrefined ****! Makes approx 40 miles to the tank difference on our 200tdi defender using tesco 5p offer fuel compared to standard price bp juice. Try ultimate diesel, far more miles to the tank and much better running engine! Avoid the cheap rubbish!!

[gsm1968]

Cheap diesel for a reason!! Higher water content and general unrefined ****!

 

 

All underground fuel tanks contain a bit of water for various reasons. What is now happening is the bio fuel has an amount of methanol in it that is hydroscopic. The water attaches itself to the methanol and you land up with a lower quality fuel.

Government insists on a 5% bio content in all fuel, so we are stuck with it. If a fuel company puts more bio in, you get an increased amount of water. That is if it has been in contact with water or humid air. Bio also causes other problems like waxing and unrefined **** that blocks filters etc.

 

We have to just live with it!!

As they cut down more forests to grow food to make fuel with, while half the planet goes to bed hungry......................

All the "freinds of the earth" go to bed with a warm fuzzy feeling. It's great saving the planet!

[HDAV]

Total excellium is supposed to be very good however i do know of 2 older engines that after a tank full needed serious work the extra oomph seemed to finish them off, apparently went like rockets before the BANG

[fortune82]

Exactly the same. On shell fuel save diesel I get 56MPG. On anything else about 50MPG.

[fruitloop]

going for the cheeper fuel works out moor exspensive if you work out what you get mpg for each then work out howmuch it cost per mile you will find that the beter fule lasts longer so costs less to run.its true about water in diesel and also bacterea in the bio diesel as we at work had a big problen at work with the same problem in the cranes braking down as the derv tank got a bacterial infection all had to be cleand out and filters fitterd to the tank the vehicles was down on power and smoking and guzzles fuel but since the cleen out and buying better derv all well. untill they try buying cheep fuel agane to cut costs so cheeper in price dont meen cheeper running.

[Rem223]

Total excellium is supposed to be very good however i do know of 2 older engines that after a tank full needed serious work the extra oomph seemed to finish them off, apparently went like rockets before the BANG

Reminds me of a story about my long dead grandfather. He was something of a Del Trotter wide boy and would purloin barrels of jet fuel from a nearby American airbase (this was in the mid 1950's). He added this to his trucks fuel tanks which resulted in a substantial power boost! Doubt it did the engines much good though. The increased power from fuels such as excellium is down to the higher cetane number.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cetane_number

 

There is limited benefit in older engines with mechanical pumps, but newer diesels like the common rail or piezo injected like some VW's can get much better economy using high cetane diesel.

[Conygree]

Any info on Esso fuel? no Shell in our area

[masterzone2]

My truck likes shell or BP and it can be the low grade from each however she loves the V-power and BP upgraded Diesel

try it on supermarket such as Tesco and It rubbish have stuck to shell mainly because of the price and the fact the truck is the same on both shell and BP.

But then a mate swears his car runs better on Tesco 99 Ron than shell V-power petrol.

Horses for courses find 2-3 that work well with you ride and stick with them.

[ferrodo]

Well I have followed the advice on this forum since my original post and used ONLY shell v power. I haven't had any more problems (touch wood) I certainly won't be using supermarket fuel anymore. My Shogun is now smooth, responsive and pulls like a train. Thanks all a result.

R

[covlocks]

I drive 220 miles back & forth to work every day in my Transit Connect. With Tesco fuel, my low level light comes on at 410 miles amd with BP or Morrisons, I get a regular 425 before the light come on (thats my average taken over 4 years of daily commutes)

 

It works out that over a tank full of fuel I save nothing in money terms by paying the extra pence per litre.

 

Just to add to the Tesco vfm - I also get points on my fuel, which means that every quarter I get around 4500 points or roughly £40 in vouchers, which I then can double up at Tesco's and get £80 of goods free, as a bonus.

 

As for running rough on various fuels, my diesel vehicles have run on everything from AVTUR, Chip Oil, Bio Diesel etc and you would never know the diference. I do only run on genuine fuel now though (Internet Spys take note) the fine I paid when I got roadside checked one time really makes paying £1:25 per litre quite a bargain.................

[Harnser]

Inter- cooled diesel engines will run better and pull better on cold days . The air on a cold frosty day going through the intercooler will allow a denser mixture of air into the cylinders .

 

Harnser

[vmobiler1]

I drive 220 miles back & forth to work every day in my Transit Connect. With Tesco fuel, my low level light comes on at 410 miles amd with BP or Morrisons, I get a regular 425 before the light come on (thats my average taken over 4 years of daily commutes)

 

It works out that over a tank full of fuel I save nothing in money terms by paying the extra pence per litre.

 

Just to add to the Tesco vfm - I also get points on my fuel, which means that every quarter I get around 4500 points or roughly £40 in vouchers, which I then can double up at Tesco's and get £80 of goods free, as a bonus.

 

As for running rough on various fuels, my diesel vehicles have run on everything from AVTUR, Chip Oil, Bio Diesel etc and you would never know the diference. I do only run on genuine fuel now though (Internet Spys take note) the fine I paid when I got roadside checked one time really makes paying £1:25 per litre quite a bargain.................

 

 

You don`t get a fine for running these fuels, you are legal to use 2500l per year for personal use.

 

If you make your own Bio and even pay the tax on it, you would make a massive saving on pump prices.

[crosshair]

From 1/1/11 all agricultural diesel will have to be the low sulphur type, apparently contains

rape seed oil, and has a lower storage life.

Save the planet, global warming etc.

They did announce today that 2010 was the third warmest year ever ?.

I missed that heatwave somewhere.

[covlocks]

You don`t get a fine for running these fuels, you are legal to use 2500l per year for personal use.

 

Yes you do - my pocket was extremely light after being road fuel tested - you get done for road fuel tax and VAT evasion if you havent prepaid your tax - and 2500L would only last me 4 months at best.