Sold by the day stalking costs

[Rasher]

I have been doing the rounds of the various internet forums of late with an eye to taking a days stalking here and there in order to add a change of scenery and a bit of variety to my usual deer stalking routine.

 

Given that we are in the depth of a major world wide recession with the UK economy teetering on the verge of collapse and mass public sector redundancies about to descend upon us in early 2011. I'm astounded at the extortionate rates some of the commercial stalking sellers are still trying to charge. Now we are told repeatedly that deer populations are increasing, that roe and muntjac are widening their range each year. Yet we see no tailing off or levelling out of sold stalking charges.

 

We have a classic example recently posted on this site. CWD at £150 for 2 high seat outings and £100 per doe and £250 per buck shot. Elsewhere I have found roe and muntjac stalking where they want £70+ per outing and £50 per doe. Muntjac bucks at £70 plus trophy fees from £150 Its about the same for Fallow with Red and Sika slightly more depending upon where you happen to be.

 

I recently enquired about some muntjac and fallow doe cull stalking that was advertised at what I thought to be a reasonable rate only to find out that it was expected that you would be in a party of 8. The guy selling the stalking would have been making over £650 a day just on the outing fees. :o

 

Are we, the humble stalker being taken for a ride, being exploited for our eagerness to be out doing what we love ? Somewhere someone is making some serious money off of us. I'm happy to pay for the privilege but it kind of takes the edge of the enjoyment when you feel someone's given your wallet the old financial squeeze for that privilege.

 

I appreciate that those rifle owners with out permissions of their own might have a greater degree of desperation about them when it comes to buying a days stalking. But given all of the influencing factors mentioned. Isn't it about time the sellers stopped hiking the prices ever higher ? Its not as if their over heads, operating costs have risen that significantly to support their extortionate pricing policy.

 

For me I have chosen simply to swap days with guys that I know, rather than get mugged by the let day stalking boys.

Edited December 23, 2010 by Rasher

[bigstevouk]

Are we, the humble stalker being taken for a ride

 

I think in answer to your question 'YES' ...... there's too many people i think cashing in and proberly even when they are getting a stalking for nothing or on the cheap they are still making a few quid out of the shooters

[docholiday]

I agree, anybody with a permission seems to be trying to make a living out of stalking, hence the crazy prices.

 

problem is is its market forces, as long as there are people prepared to pay these prices then they will stay high.

 

I am always up for a bit of swapping wether it is stalking or pigeon, anybody want to swap a day, meet and have a change of scenery let me know, sorry that excludes those without permission and I sympathise with there plight

 

doc

[Devon Fox]

My syndicate ground is covered by a stalker (foc), He has just been rumbled by us, he isnt shooting it himself, he is selling the stalking and taking 2-3 people out at a time - He will be history in the new year

 

everyone seems to be out for a fast buck (see what i did there )

 

I will get my coat!

[scolopax]

Simple market forces, supply and demand.

[mikee]

although we are in the middle of a recession there are still a lot of people with vast amounts of disposable cash and with so much stalking being controlled by so few people the few can generally find more than enough punters willing to part with their money, this is probably why there are so many deer with numbers climbing and those in control of the stalking more interested in making money rather than actually getting out there and controlling the deer. I dont see anything wrong with making money, if a stalker has a coupel of larege trophy animals to cull and he can find a rich client to pay big fees to shoot them all well and good but £150 an outing to help with a cull is taking the ****, £150 to help someone with his job seems a lot to me

 

mikee

[markm]

In most cases the stalker / guide does not own the land and will either pay rent or a salary by an employer.

 

Let say he pays rent.

 

A days work will need to cover vehicle, fuel, weather considerations, rent, insurance and his / her wages to cover what all others pay for. He might only work 2 hours in the morn and 2 hours as night.

 

If he is employed, the empolyer wants all this + another cut.

 

That's why it costs what it does. This is the honest side and there are a lot of cowboys out there including the FC.

[Rasher]

everyone seems to be out for a fast buck (see what i did there )

 

Yes I did. Very good

 

I will get my coat!

 

i think its best!.

[Rasher]

A days work will need to cover vehicle, fuel, weather considerations, rent, insurance and his / her wages to cover what all others pay for. He might only work 2 hours in the morn and 2 hours as night.

 

Weather considerations...??? So you average joe stalker should be expecting to contribute to his bad weather days. :lol: :lol:

Sorry mate, not here.

 

£150 plus £100 cull fees sure covers a lot of rainy days.

[Rasher]

Simple market forces, supply and demand.

 

 

I prefer to call it highway robbery.

[Rasher]

I dont see anything wrong with making money, if a stalker has a coupel of larege trophy animals to cull and he can find a rich client to pay big fees to shoot them all well and good but £150 an outing to help with a cull is taking the ****, £150 to help someone with his job seems a lot to me

 

I don't have a problem with the guy selling his medal heads for the highest bidder. After all that's something of a niche market anyway.

 

When you reach a situation as we have now where commercial stalking providers are twisting the arms of the average joe stalker or exploiting the the desperate, and unaware. It is, as you say "taking the urine".

[Mungler]

Couldn't agree more with the OP.

 

But while people queue up and pay, them's thare the rates in the open market and as such are sustainable.....

 

In the words of BA Baracas, I pity the fools that pay it.

 

Good luck to all concerned, it's a free world - you pays your money etc....

[Vipa]

Sadly a bit of a 'catch 22 situation' unlike other activities it is very difficult to make a stand by abstention as without proof of paid stalks or confirmed bookings the recreational stalker with no permissions runs the risk of losing his ticket. The threat of that is fuel enough in most cases to dig deep, sigh and just hand over the reddies!

[markm]

OK rasher,

Get your DS 2 (if you ain't got it already) and put a closed bid on a piece of forestry commission land that comes up close to you. (if and when it does and you win, let me know, I'm not holding my breath for you) or even more for private land exclusive to you.

[markm]

Weather considerations...??? So you average joe stalker should be expecting to contribute to his bad weather days. :lol: :lol:

Sorry mate, not here.

 

£150 plus £100 cull fees sure covers a lot of rainy days.

 

 

So you can shoot deer more than once? Is that like catch and release on a trout fishery?

[al4x]

I'd normally agree entirely with this especially with the tin pot "brokers" that pop up selling extortionate stalking that is a "mates" or their "mates job" culling park deer but in this case whats got the OP's back up is what I consider to be one of the good guys. Rasher bear in mind that this ground is shot once a year, you don't know what he pays for it and also if you look on a more stalking orientated site you will see how many people rated it last year

 

Obviously you know far better than me how widespread CWD are in the country and how easy it is to get permission with them on Rasher and the cost shows that. If CWD stalking floats your boat you won't get anywhere better to do it and from a historical point as well you are slap bang where they escaped from. They haven't spread like muntjac but localised areas have small populations. If you want a cheaper day out they are available and funnily enough if you have a look at the guy you were slating he also offers it but on cull beasts of far more common varieties

As ever its supply and demand if you can't afford it don't do it. Certainly round here you can shoot fallow and muntjac for a fraction that cost but then they are pretty much everywhere

[Rasher]

I'd normally agree entirely with this especially with the tin pot "brokers" that pop up selling extortionate stalking that is a "mates" or their "mates job" culling park deer but in this case whats got the OP's back up is what I consider to be one of the good guys. Rasher bear in mind that this ground is shot once a year, you don't know what he pays for it and also if you look on a more stalking orientated site you will see how many people rated it last year

 

I just like to say I haven't got my back up, and the post selling CWD I referred to was used as an example nothing more. I am well aware of the good regards surrounding the poster, and the nature of the forum to which you refer. If as you suggest the poster might have paid over the odds for the ground that its his look out. But I doubt it :look: The fact that he's chosen to charge the rates that he has is for those who choose to bite to work out if it provides VFM.

 

I'm also as you might have gathered not looking for an "mates rate" invite.

 

CWD Are spreading slowly but surely. Helped in some regard by a few shall we say, 'under the table', introductions. Take a drive up the A5 and have a peer over the hedges you'll soon discover that established populations are not small given the ability of CWD to have multiple off spring. The fact that the ground advertised is in the back yard of the point of escape or to be more precise the point of release has little to do with the price other than the fact that you'll have more to point the rifle at a £100 plus a go. The rates are the rates, they are not the cheapest, nor are they the most expensive. They are what they are. An indication of the markets exploitation of your Joe Average stalker. nothing more, nothing less. As I am sure you are well aware of if you have followed any of the discussions on the forum to which you refer, and I man nothing personal in their use.

[Richie10]

Loads of CWD in few places, not sure why they cost so much to stalk.

 

Pay for outing fee, pay for when you shot the beast, more if it's a trophy and then pay for venison on top of that, all for an animal that hasn't cost the land owner to maintain. It's a win win situation.

Nothing about deer control all about money generation.

 

Alex,

As you say if you can't afford it don't do it. So basically deer stalking should only be open with people with money. Also where are there opportunities in Hertfordshire to shoot Muntjac and fallow at very low cost as you put it?

[Dunkield]

Obviously you know far better than me how widespread CWD are in the country and how easy it is to get permission with them on Rasher and the cost shows that. If CWD stalking floats your boat you won't get anywhere better to do it and from a historical point as well you are slap bang where they escaped from. They haven't spread like muntjac but localised areas have small populations. If you want a cheaper day out they are available and funnily enough if you have a look at the guy you were slating he also offers it but on cull beasts of far more common varieties

As ever its supply and demand if you can't afford it don't do it. Certainly round here you can shoot fallow and muntjac for a fraction that cost but then they are pretty much everywhere

Very topical this, I quite fancy shooting a CWD, so I spoke to someone yesterday who knows land that is 'covered with them' not a million miles from you Al4x.

The want £200 for a stalk (by the sounds of it success is <almost> guaranteed) when I said that sounded a bit steep, he replied that is was a couple of keepers that were selling the stalking, so it is probably something they are being paid to do anyway..

We pay our stalker in Scotland £120 for his day, he works his backside off for that to get the 3 of us into a deer each day - that to me, seems very fair.

What annoys me is people who claim that deer ar at pest proportions and still want you to pay them royally to help them out.

It seems is you get right out into the country where there is less pressure and opportunists you can get luckily, I spoke to someone earlier in the week who was asked to clear a load of roe from some land, when the stalker offered venison back to the land owner he was shocked by his generosity, he just wants them controlled and doesn't want any money for it.

[Mungler]

The prices are daft and it's the incremental pricing (aka nickel and diming) that gets my goat.

 

When I looked at a day's boar shooting in England one of the variables according to the pricing tarrif (see shoot and miss, see shoot and kill a bronze medal or above) then I worked the cost of that 1 trip out to be more than 5 days all inclusive in Croatia (flights, transfers, accomodation, food and 3 full days shooting with no bag limit and no trophy fees).

 

That put everything into perspective for me.

Edited December 24, 2010 by Mungler

[al4x]

Loads of CWD in few places, not sure why they cost so much to stalk.

 

Pay for outing fee, pay for when you shot the beast, more if it's a trophy and then pay for venison on top of that, all for an animal that hasn't cost the land owner to maintain. It's a win win situation.

Nothing about deer control all about money generation.

 

Alex,

As you say if you can't afford it don't do it. So basically deer stalking should only be open with people with money. Also where are there opportunities in Hertfordshire to shoot Muntjac and fallow at very low cost as you put it?

 

 

personally I can shoot both for free but obviously that isn't really the name of the game here. Having been looking you can stalk for £75 an outing and include a cull animal with that which to me isn't bad. With the proper estates by the time you knock vat off and pay tax, and pay the keeper there isn't a huge amount left you're not going to get rich on the proceeds anyway. To an extent it will only be open to people with money much like game shooting but as we all know there are very different levels of game shooting from low cost to mega money. I've never even seen a CWD and we're 20 miles from Woburn and they are no where near as prolific as muntjac but it is supply and demand. Go and offer landowners the readies and you will get stalking but then realise why you sell some stalks to recoup the cost or of course as Dunkield says you may get lucky.

[palombier]

Dunkield

 

I did a day on CWD and it was probably the most unchallenging stalking I have ever done. Won't bother again; do it for the game book as a one-off. I was slightly lucky in that I shot a gold medal but didn't get charged the ridiculous trophy fee (long story). I agree it doesn't get any better than red deer hill stalking.

 

P

[Rasher]

The prices are daft and it's the incremental pricing (aka nickel and diming) that gets my goat.

 

When I looked at a day's boar shooting in England one of the variables according to the pricing tarrif (see shoot and miss, see shoot and kill a bronze medal or above) then I worked the cost of that 1 trip out to be more than 5 days all inclusive in Croatia (flights, transfers, accomodation, food and 3 full days shooting with no bag limit and no trophy fees).

 

That put everything into perspective for me.

 

I fully agree with you the nickel and diming is an old style way of hiking the eventual cost up from a base line. Its an old pricing ploy sometimes known as package pricing, and is used by a number of car manufacturers all the time. The Germans are some of the biggest culprits.

 

But thanks to some of the more enlightened manufactures and the world wide recession people are starting to get wise. What's more those that still try it are finding that its starting to turn around and bite them hard. About time IMO

 

Thereare some who use this method of pricing their stalking who will and have argued that its perfectly reasonable and justifiable. However the rising voice of disagreement that I hear from fellow stalkers is getting ever louder and more insistent. As the commercial stalking sellers push the prices ever higher across the board in an attempt to lift as much money out of the game as possible.

 

I think as the recession deepens , the numbers of unemployed race towards the 5million mark and the B of E finally has to allow the interest rates to rise so a lot of these price scalping practices will fall well out of favour with you Joe Average stalker and they with vote with their feet as well as their wallets. And quite rightly so. IMO

[Rasher]

I did a day on CWD and it was probably the most unchallenging stalking I have ever done.

 

Bet it wasn't as unchallenging stalking as that which was recently advertised. That one expected you to pay £150 just for the pleasure of sitting up a high seat all day.

 

That was one of the reasons why I said in the post that was deleted and the thread locked that he was having a laugh.

[Crouch valley]

Dunkield

 

I did a day on CWD and it was probably the most unchallenging stalking I have ever done. Won't bother again; do it for the game book as a one-off. I was slightly lucky in that I shot a gold medal but didn't get charged the ridiculous trophy fee (long story). I agree it doesn't get any better than red deer hill stalking.

 

P

 

I would have to agree with you i went cwd stalking i shot mine within 30 mins from leaveing the car. Give me a day on the reds in arren any day.