Shotgun ammo storage legislation change?

[BlaserF3]

This http://www.libertarian.co.uk/lapubs/histn/histn043.htm#2.%20United%20We%20Stand is what I was thinking about for those of you who will not read the whole text.

Edited January 13, 2011 by BlaserF3

[apache]

With 'shooters' like you, who needs anti's?

 

Perhaps you could be so good as to explain the difference, other than meaningless cosmetics, between a .223 Remington 700 (presumably a rifle you're good enough to approve of), and a straight pull AR-15? (Rhetorical question)

 

 

Crack on though mate, you're doing a great job for the gun-grabbers, BTW, is the pay at GCN any good?

 

Mark

And you think you do anything for the shooters cause wanting action man guns?

 

I am very supportive of the gun control we have in this country and I think it's a good thing. Some of it is over zealous and I do think once you are a fit and proper person a FAC should work like a SGC and you could obtain rifles that you could safely store. I would have maybe rimfire, cf up to .243 and the anything above. That way you could progress with experience, but if you fancied adding a HMR you could go out and buy one in addition to your .22.

 

I do think that the experience/mentoring concept needs clearing up so all forces are singing from the same hymn sheet. What frightens me to death is anyone been given a firearm to use on their own when they have no experience with something similar.

 

I am a member of some American forums and they talk of keeping loaded shotguns under the bed for home defence. Loaded pistols in cars, bedside cabinets, even concealed on their persons when out and about. I read a thread recently where they were discussing carrying 2 guns, one as a back-up.

 

You want a situation like that over here? Where every one has a gun on them at all time. You know for certain every criminal has one. Net effect more people get shot. People shoot their drunken teenager sneaking into the house, kids get daddy's gun and shoot each other. You want this?

 

We need to be responsible gun owner, who keep them locked up and secure. Not pop into ASDA [as the Yanks can in Walmart] and buy a pistol and some ammo with your beer and beans. You can justify firearms for game shooting, vermin control, but I imagine target shooting will be put under greater scrutiny as time goes on. Interesting to see what happens to clays. Wanting an AK47/AR-15 to play with doesn't help anyones cause. The emotion attached to things that look that way is pure media fodder.

[Breastman]

Noone said they wanted the American model of firearm ownership. As for the rest, see my previous post about educating the public about guns. What is surprising is when one from our ranks turns so venomously on other shooters.

 

And if you think there aren't far more anti's (and not just anti-gunners) after people who shoot innocent fluffly liddle animals (vermin) than those after target shooters you're sadly mistaken.

 

Sticking together and educating the public so they don't form their opinions from the tripe they're fed by the mass media is the only option any if us (IMO)

[BlaserF3]

 

 

I do think that the experience/mentoring concept needs clearing up so all forces are singing from the same hymn sheet. What frightens me to death is anyone been given a firearm to use on their own when they have no experience with something similar.

 

You can justify firearms for game shooting, vermin control, but I imagine target shooting will be put under greater scrutiny as time goes on. Interesting to see what happens to clays.

 

I agree with your first paragraph.

 

But I strongly disagree about game shooting and vermin control being more secure than target shooting, I think a lot of it is not necessary at all.

 

Just look what happened when that Stag was shot, the media was down there like a ton of bricks. The general public seem to be against wanton killing of animals or birds.

[Colster]

Part of the problem is that shooters are a very disparate bunch. What for me is a hobby, is a sport to some and a job for others.

 

The different quarry that we pursue appeals to different people with vastly different attitudes and motivations for doing the brand of shooting that they do. I guess it will be hard for all of us to understand each others reasons for shooting.

 

As I said above, I don't personally see the point in the whole tacticool thing but we should remember, the changes that are being proposed are as a direct result of Derrick Bird. I feel where the changes do not have a direct effect in trying to ensure his situation could not re-occur then they are precisely the "knee-jerk legislation" that we were told would be avoided.

[Vince Green]

The trouble is that these laws grow into something else over time. If the law says stored somewhere else it won't be long before some FEOs will be insisting on cabinets and some people knowing no better will comply. Then over time it gets written in the guidelines and its job done.

 

Restricting the storage of cartridges will effectively mean restricting the purchase of cartridges and the implications of that will be devestating for some shooters and many dealers.

[the running man]

And you think you do anything for the shooters cause wanting action man guns?

 

I am very supportive of the gun control we have in this country and I think it's a good thing. Some of it is over zealous and I do think once you are a fit and proper person a FAC should work like a SGC and you could obtain rifles that you could safely store. I would have maybe rimfire, cf up to .243 and the anything above. That way you could progress with experience, but if you fancied adding a HMR you could go out and buy one in addition to your .22.

 

I do think that the experience/mentoring concept needs clearing up so all forces are singing from the same hymn sheet. What frightens me to death is anyone been given a firearm to use on their own when they have no experience with something similar.

 

I am a member of some American forums and they talk of keeping loaded shotguns under the bed for home defence. Loaded pistols in cars, bedside cabinets, even concealed on their persons when out and about. I read a thread recently where they were discussing carrying 2 guns, one as a back-up.

 

You want a situation like that over here? Where every one has a gun on them at all time. You know for certain every criminal has one. Net effect more people get shot. People shoot their drunken teenager sneaking into the house, kids get daddy's gun and shoot each other. You want this?

 

We need to be responsible gun owner, who keep them locked up and secure. Not pop into ASDA [as the Yanks can in Walmart] and buy a pistol and some ammo with your beer and beans. You can justify firearms for game shooting, vermin control, but I imagine target shooting will be put under greater scrutiny as time goes on. Interesting to see what happens to clays. Wanting an AK47/AR-15 to play with doesn't help anyones cause. The emotion attached to things that look that way is pure media fodder.

young man,did u just fall off the turnip truck? U are a little I'll informed, so all holes in paper shooting in you're opinion is useless and should be illegal? U don't use a range? Or a piece of paper 2 zero you're rifle? No u just use you're hole puncher do you. Those of us who shoot for their country in competition deplore you're resolve. I and many of my club and team mates shoot on land as well as target,and enjoy both. Just because u find u don't like it does not mean its any less safe,or no good. As for the action man comment,I own a 1917 p17 30-06,its a military gun does this make me a rambo? Or action man? I absoloutlely deplore you're poor opinion.

[Scully]

As a former pistol shooter I'm a bit puzzled over something Apache said....namely that making holes in cardboard (target shooting) isn't a good reason for owning one.What other 'good reason'(except humane despatch)is there for owning one?

Also,there's a bloke on here posted pictures of his AR15(or AR15 lookalike)the other week.No doubt these are the type of firearm Apache objects to,yet the authorities and indeed the Government deem them to be quite legal.

[Vipa]

No-one needs that kind of gun for anything

 

 

For someone who has only been a FAC holder for a couple of years, and for someone who only decided to get anything other than a pistol (for humane dispatch) as they thought 'they should have a rimmy in the armoury' in one sense it's hardly surprising to read your views on aspects of shooting other than your own. You obviously applied for your FAC out of necessity rather than desire or interest and whilst that is absolutely normal in many circumstances it does not then give you the right to display such arrogance which suggests that you feel you are the only group to have some god given right to own a gun.

 

Please be aware that there are people on here with immesurably more experience of firearms than you. Some of us have been shooting for more than 24 years, let alone 24 months and were brought up in a safe environment target shooting before moving on to live quarry. Did you ensure you were competent with your 'rimmy' spending time practising & target shooting before you unleashed it on some unsuspecting beast? Did you get any training? How many hours do you think forces personel spend practicing on the range? Target competition ensures they then strive for better results, exactly the same applies to civilian shooters, practice makes perfect and competition perfects the perfection! There are far too many shooters who think (wrongly) that they do not need to practice because they have some mysterious natural marksmanship ability!

 

In it's purest form target practice moves beyond honing your skills so you can be assured of a humane kill in the field (a good, well practiced shot shouldn't need a pistol for humane dispatch! The need for one should be a rarity indeed and, in my opinion, would point to someone who should practice more and seek more training to negate that need!!!!) Target shooting is a very involving, healthy, difficult and enjoyable passtime, interest, obsession (in some cases) Just because the tool used to take part can kill if missused is a ridiculous argument. A golf club could kill quite easily, so could a car, or a cricket bat.... maybe we should ban golf, motor racing and cricket too???

 

I have very good friends on here (one who has already posted on this thread) who shoot competitively for thier country, are you saying your excuse for owning a gun is more valid than thiers?? Because quite frankly if we went down that route and started to examine the actual need, i.e. how often your firearm is used as opposed to thiers, I think it would be your 'valid proveable reason' to possess that would be under scrutiny! Are you saying we should ban access to Biathlon, Clay shooting, SB target rifle etc.. to UK residents (all Olympic disciplines... there are others too!) Should we ban archery too?? After all, bows and arrows are weapons in thier purest form and as bowhunting is outlawed in this country, no one, in your view, should be allowed to target practice with a weapon!!??

 

Why can't you call in a slaughterman or pest controller instead of owning your own weapons? There are allways arguments for and against but the important thing to see is that as shooters, we are a tolerant bunch, we can appreciate each other's areas of interest even if they don't appeal to us personally but at the end of the day, we are shooters, we have an interest in guns, we have an interest in shooting and we have an interest in being the best shooters we can be, in whatever field and with whatever type of weapon appeals to us and our style of shooting.

 

Your post would strongly suggest to me that you are in the completely wrong place and on the wrong forum. This is a multi discipline group and you would seem to be a very narrow minded kind of chap! I am certain that if you look hard enough, you will find another forum that maybe suits your interests better and caters to your very blinkered views and lack of tolerance. I would try doing a search on Google first, I'm sure you will find a new home there.... Good luck

Edited January 14, 2011 by Vipa

[Imperfection]

No-one needs that kind of gun for anything

 

What utter drivel.Are you sure you're not an opertative from the gun control network?

[apache]

For someone who has only been a FAC holder for a couple of years, and for someone who only decided to get anything other than a pistol (for humane dispatch) as they thought 'they should have a rimmy in the armoury' in one sense it's hardly surprising to read your views on aspects of shooting other than your own. You obviously applied for your FAC out of necessity rather than desire or interest and whilst that is absolutely normal in many circumstances it does not then give you the right to display such arrogance which suggests that you feel you are the only group to have some god given right to own a gun.

 

Now I never said that did I. You miss interpret what I said. What I said was I can see more scrutiny placed on people who want to just do target practice, rather than use their firearms to control pets, shoot game etc.

 

Please be aware that there are people on here with immesurably more experience of firearms than you. Some of us have been shooting for more than 24 years, let alone 24 months and were brought up in a safe environment target shooting before moving on to live quarry. Did you ensure you were competent with your 'rimmy' spending time practising & target shooting before you unleashed it on some unsuspecting beast? Did you get any training? How many hours do you think forces personel spend practicing on the range? Target competition ensures they then strive for better results, exactly the same applies to civilian shooters, practice makes perfect and competition perfects the perfection! There are far too many shooters who think (wrongly) that they do not need to practice because they have some mysterious natural marksmanship ability!

 

More experience doesn't make you more right or my opinion any less valid than any one else's'. I know plenty of **** drivers who have been doing it badly for a very long time. When I think about it I have seen more displays of unsafe gun handling by older men than youngsters.

 

Yes I have training, both as part of the undergraduate course and having spent time in a slaughterhouse. I also been out with friends with the rimfire.

 

Why can't you call in a slaughterman or pest controller instead of owning your own weapons?

 

Because a delay would cause unnecessary suffering! Also do you have any idea how few local abattoirs are around now. This very morning I shot two cows as the farmer had rang the knackerman who couldn't come until Monday.

 

Your post would strongly suggest to me that you are in the completely wrong place and on the wrong forum. This is a multi discipline group and you would seem to be a very narrow minded kind of chap! I am certain that if you look hard enough, you will find another forum that maybe suits your interests better and caters to your very blinkered views and lack of tolerance. I would try doing a search on Google first, I'm sure you will find a new home there.... Good luck

 

Take your blinkers off an look at things from another's point of view. Things are rarely as black and white as they seem. If you have been shooting so long you possibly can't even remember not being a shooter. I can possibly see both sides of the argument much better than you.

[the running man]

Now I never said that did I. You miss interpret what I said. What I said was I can see more scrutiny placed on people who want to just do target practice, rather than use their firearms to control pets, shoot game etc.

 

 

 

More experience doesn't make you more right or my opinion any less valid than any one else's'. I know plenty of **** drivers who have been doing it badly for a very long time. When I think about it I have seen more displays of unsafe gun handling by older men than youngsters.

 

Yes I have training, both as part of the undergraduate course and having spent time in a slaughterhouse. I also been out with friends with the rimfire.

 

 

 

Because a delay would cause unnecessary suffering! Also do you have any idea how few local abattoirs are around now. This very morning I shot two cows as the farmer had rang the knackerman who couldn't come until Monday.

 

 

 

Take your blinkers off an look at things from another's point of view. Things are rarely as black and white as they seem. If you have been shooting so long you possibly can't even remember not being a shooter. I can possibly see both sides of the argument much better than you.

you have dodged you're critics with unsatisfactory vigor,u said no one needs a gun like that for anything,and target shooting is no good etc uve had you're opinion challenged, fairly, I think,can u answer these to these veiws of youres? Edited January 14, 2011 by the running man

[Vipa]

Now I never said that did I. You miss interpret what I said. What I said was I can see more scrutiny placed on people who want to just do target practice, rather than use their firearms to control pets, shoot game etc.

 

No, you said, with regards to good reason for pistol ownership "But they weren't. I have one. You just need a good reason. Making holes in cardboard isn't one. I have a hole punch you can borrow?" Does your view of this somehow change when applied to firearms other than pistols.

 

More experience doesn't make you more right or my opinion any less valid than any one else's'. I know plenty of **** drivers who have been doing it badly for a very long time. When I think about it I have seen more displays of unsafe gun handling by older men than youngsters.

 

Yes I have training, both as part of the undergraduate course and having spent time in a slaughterhouse. I also been out with friends with the rimfire.

 

So how much time do you put in on the range ensuring you know where your shots will land under varying conditions? I don't see how you can possibly know your limitations without putting in target/range time. You going out with friends with the rimfire hardly instils one with confidence!

 

Because a delay would cause unnecessary suffering! Also do you have any idea how few local abattoirs are around now. This very morning I shot two cows as the farmer had rang the knackerman who couldn't come until Monday.

 

Can't argue with that

 

Take your blinkers off an look at things from another's point of view. Things are rarely as black and white as they seem. If you have been shooting so long you possibly can't even remember not being a shooter. I can possibly see both sides of the argument much better than you.

 

Actually, no I do not think you are seeing things from both sides of the argument. You are coming accross as very 'anti' to anything other than gun ownership as a 'need!' or to types of weapons that do not interest you. this is a very dangerous concept and is partly why shooting and firearms have the image they do with the general public. I blame mainly Hollywood for this. I personally have no interest in historical black powder rifles but to many it brings great pleasure, do they need them? no but who am I to say that just becasuse they don't interest me they can't have them?!!. If we apply you logic accross the board so that we may only possess 'dangerous' items if we 'need' them then we would live in a very dull place as very few of us would be able to possess what we wanted, firearms or otherwise!

 

I am very much unblinkered, living in a house with a vehemently 'anti' wife, I HAVE to be able to see both sides. My point to you, sir, is that you are on a forum made up of shooters, most of whome, if it came down to it, would not be seen to actually 'need' thier weapons using your logic. You are not coming accross as being very supportive of shooting sports in general (which is sort of the ethos of this forum) only of firearms being used for agricultural necessity and I am questioning whether or not you are in the right place?

 

Perhaps you enjoy walking round the farm with your 'humane dispatcher,' do you wear a shoulder holster or a thigh holster??? just trying to help you along your way with a few suggestions here you understand... maybe if you could answer that question I could give you the addresses of the Jack Bauer fan club or the John Wayne Appreciation Society respectively? :unsure:

Edited January 14, 2011 by Vipa

[Imperfection]

Now I never said that did I. You miss interpret what I said. What I said was I can see more scrutiny placed on people who want to just do target practice, rather than use their firearms to control pets, shoot game etc.

 

 

Really??? I'd like to see evidence of this or is it just your opinion??? Far as i know,everyone has to go through the same vetting process unless you live in a special world.

[mossy835]

What utter drivel.Are you sure you're not an opertative from the gun control network?

 

 

 

there seems to be a few of them on here,