Spara Dritto Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 (edited) Not sure where I got this idea from but doesnt really matter, all that does is i hope it helps you all out. This is only a rough guid to getting a gun fit but hope it helps you none the less! Hold your shotgun at the hip, close both eyes bring the gun into the mounted posisition still with your eyes closed, once you think your in the right positision, open your eyes. You will see 1 of the 3 following, The brake action leaver/safty catch, alot of the rib from 1/2 way down the barrels towards the bead ORRR Just the bead and nothing else. If the last one is the case then perfect, the stock is the correct hight, if its the first then the stock must be raised as its too low. If its the second the stock is (without suprise) too high and you are seeing too much! you must increase the drop of the stock! Lastly, if your eye doesnt run dead down the rib of the barrel (without you craning your neck over the stock) then the stock must be adjusted either left or right. Hope it helps guys! simple test but hits the nail on the head with 90% of gun fit the last is checking elbow to hand, if you make a right angle with your arm (at the elbow), sit the butt of the gun in the arm and reach for the trigger... If you can just get your finger round the trigger, perfect! Any more and the stock is to short, any less and the stock too long! Good luck! Edited February 10, 2011 by Beretta Italy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobba Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 I recognise most of this. I did this exercise repeatedly with Nigel Teague when having multi chokes fitted (Great piece of work by the way). It was concluded that I was looking down the barrel at about 10 - 5 mins to the hour which required a slight cast in the stock. Always worth having the gun fitted properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rascal_2005 Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 sticky mods? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 Not sure where I got this idea from but doesnt really matter, all that does is i hope it helps you all out. Hold your shotgun at the hip, close both eyes bring the gun into the mounted posisition still with your eyes closed, once you think your in the right positision, open your eyes. You will see 1 of the 3 following, The brake action leaver/safty catch, alot of the rib from 1/2 way down the barrels towards the bead ORRR Just the bead and nothing else. If the last one is the case then perfect, the stock is the correct hight, if its the first then the stock must be raised as its too low. If its the second the stock is (without suprise) too high and you are seeing too much! you must increase the drop of the stock! Lastly, if your eye doesnt run dead down the rib of the barrel (without you craning your neck over the stock) then the stock must be adjusted either left or right. Hope it helps guys! simple test but hits the nail on the head with 90% of gun fit the last is checking elbow to hand, if you make a right angle with your arm (at the elbow), sit the butt of the gun in the arm and reach for the trigger... If you can just get your finger round the trigger, perfect! Any more and the stock is to short, any less and the stock too long! Good luck! With regard to your second test (elbow to hand), do you think that the length of your neck would influence matters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_R Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 With regard to your second test (elbow to hand), do you think that the length of your neck would influence matters? That test is meaningless. You are right, length of neck, slope of shoulders, high or low cheekbones are all far more important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrispti Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 That test is meaningless. You are right, length of neck, slope of shoulders, high or low cheekbones are all far more important. Also how much clothing you are wearing Its ok to use as a rough gauge though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_R Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 Also how much clothing you are wearing Its ok to use as a rough gauge though Agreed on the clothing, but that's something you'll always have to consider. However, I simply cannot see why anyone can believe the elbow to hand test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 I'm with John on this. Too many other variables:- Length of neck. Amount of chubby cheek Distance between where the stock hits your cheek to your eye. How you like to hold the trigger - right on your finger tip or the joint. Whether comb is central or offset. Clothing. Plus a shed load more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spara Dritto Posted February 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 One would think that your neck length, jaw position and cloths are all taken into account at the shop.... This isn’t a 100% perfect guide to gun fit but if you follow this you will be pretty much there for the ones that cant bring an instructor As for the post above from Gordon and the rest: Length of neck. Amount of chubby cheek Distance between where the stock hits your cheek to your eye. How you like to hold the trigger - right on your finger tip or the joint. Whether comb is central or offset. Clothing. Doing this mount will obviously prove that you need to change things, if you have chubby cheeks then stock will have to be changed but that’s the idea of the closed eye mount... To find your problems and change the gun accordingly I don’t see what your saying..? accept that the fact that every one is different and if they try this and the site picture isn’t right that they can change accordingly surly?? you do not make any sence?? Also when it comes to trigger pull I would like to think you should know that you never pull with the first crease of the finger, its always the tip. As soon as you start pulling with the crease you lose sensitivity, a “straight pull” and trigger control.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spara Dritto Posted February 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 (edited) Agreed on the clothing, but that's something you'll always have to consider. However, I simply cannot see why anyone can believe the elbow to hand test. You cant believe the elbow to hand test? when you mount the gun your trigger arm should have the correct bend, if the finger rides to high over the trigger in this test your cheek will be far to far up the butt due to the pocket in the shoulder being too big (relaxation of the antirior deltoid).. try it your self, and if you cant reach the trigger then when you come to mounting you will be over contracting the antiror deltoid (because your arm comes to close to the face and not having enough bend in the elbow bringing the cheek back, far to far off the stock, putting the jaw in the complete wrong position. I can guarantee everyone who has read this post has gone to they gun cabinet and tried this and will soon relies its a very good way of checking gun fit Again, i cant talk on behalf of everyone, im no expert, its just a little tip that works for me! Edited February 10, 2011 by Beretta Italy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 Hi, As one of "the rest" as you put it, take it from someone who managed to convince Turner, King, Craddock and finally Aldis that he may just have got the hang of it some 25+ years ago, that your elbow hand theory is flawed and as they say in Norfolk, is nothing but "a load of old squit". Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spara Dritto Posted February 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 Hi, As one of "the rest" as you put it, take it from someone who managed to convince Turner, King, Craddock and finally Aldis that he may just have got the hang of it some 25+ years ago, that your elbow hand theory is flawed and as they say in Norfolk, is nothing but "a load of old squit". Cheers From my experience i have to disagree, although im not saying im right. My old air rifle is too short at the butt when i did the elbow - trigger, and every time i mount my cheek is too far up the stock, almost to the point where my nose is near the safty catch. Although with my shotgun its perfect hand to trigger and my cheek sits perfectly on the stock. I couldnt be more certain that this works (for me) because i've tried it my self on 2 guns, and old air rifle that was my fathers that doesnt fit me and my own shotgun that does... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 (edited) I too am one of the "rest", The only way you can tell if a gun fits you correctly is if it comes into exactly the same position time after time after time and shoots to where you are looking. Different people will see differing sight pictures, I see a small ammount of rib on my F3 and it shoots to wherever I am looking. It fits me perfectly and I can mount it consistently over and over again. The eyes closed thing works on a target rifle when you are laying in position and on aim, If you then close your eyes for a few seconds and open them you should still be on aim. If you are not then you position and hold is not right and you were pushing the rifle into position rather than it being natural. And the elbow measurement is complete poppycock. You will never see a professional gunfitter use it. As I have said my F3 fits me perfectly but it is about an inch short if I put it in the crook of my elbow. Edited February 10, 2011 by MC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spara Dritto Posted February 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 (edited) I too am one of the "rest", The only way you can tell if a gun fits you correctly is if it comes into exactly the same position time after time after time and shoots to where you are looking. Different people will see differing sight pictures, I see a small ammount of rib on my F3 and it shoots to wherever I am looking. It fits me perfectly and I can mount it consistently over and over again. The eyes closed thing works on a target rifle when you are laying in position and on aim, If you then close your eyes for a few seconds and open them you should still be on aim. If you are not then you position and hold is not right and you were pushing the rifle into position rather than it being natural. And the elbow measurement is complete poppycock. You will never see a professional gunfitter use it. As I have said my F3 fits me perfectly but it is about an inch short if I put it in the crook of my elbow. MC: If your eye doesnt just see the bead surly you have taught your self to shoot correctly with a gun that doesnt fit correctly, this can be done with alot of pratice but you are basically telling me that your eye and barrel are completly out of line but your are compensating this with alot of pratice and changing site picture. It cant be anything else, the barrels are straight this means that your eye should be running parrelle with the barrels to meet the target. I found the post: Predator Guest Posted: 13 May 2003 07:26 pm Post subject: Re: Fitting a Shotgun -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- That was a really great answer, Rick. Here is what I've experienced with my gunsmith; LOP You want a LOP (length of pull) that generally positions your face about 2-3" from the back of the receiver of your gun. Close your eyes, and mount the gun; a good LOP will allow you the 2-3" plus a relaxed arm on the foregrip without having to stretch that arm out (do this about 5 times). A stretched (non-relaxed) foregrip arm can seriously affect both your mount and your swing. Also, a good LOP will never ever cause your stock to hang up on your vest. Trigger As for LOP at the trigger, you should be able to squeeze the pistolgrip firmly and pull the trigger without stretching it out. Cast Stock cast affects the left-to-right view of your mount. Again, mounting your gun with closed eyes, open both eyes and check your sight picture with your shooting eye (again, do this 5 times for repeatability); if youre not looking straight down the rib, you need to think about some cast adjustment to your stock. Drop Stock drop affects the up-down view of your mount. The comb (top edge of the stock) is what typically affects drop. A high comb pushes the tip of the gun up, while a low comb does the opposite. A closed-eye mount 5 times will tell you how your drop looks; of you continually see the top of the rib, your comb is a bit high, if you see the back of the rib, but not the tip, then your comb is low. Note that with most angled combs, you LOP will affect your drop - the farther forward your face, the "higher" the comb feels. This is just a laymans experience. I hope it helps! Read more: http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=2113#ixzz1DZt7F6qk Edited February 10, 2011 by Beretta Italy do not post links to other forums Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spara Dritto Posted February 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 (edited) I was starting to think this was just me that it works for thank god its not! ^^ this was taken from another forum. (above) ^^ The reason i say mount the gun eyes closed is that you can not adjust your posisition, be it neck, jaw or cheek to beable to see the bead. Close eye mounting gets you into a comfy (correct - if checked) position without you moving and adjusting yourself to fit the gun! as i say, the gun should fit you not the other way round Edited February 10, 2011 by Beretta Italy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 Old Saying: He who reads forgets He who sees remembers He who does knows Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spara Dritto Posted February 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 (edited) look at the tests this guy does... thank-you. So thats someone from another forum, and a gun smith that i have been able to find in about 30 seconds on a google search that do the same tests... lol Edited February 10, 2011 by Beretta Italy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_R Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 You cant believe the elbow to hand test? when you mount the gun your trigger arm should have the correct bend, if the finger rides to high over the trigger in this test your cheek will be far to far up the butt due to the pocket in the shoulder being too big (relaxation of the antirior deltoid).. try it your self, and if you cant reach the trigger then when you come to mounting you will be over contracting the antiror deltoid (because your arm comes to close to the face and not having enough bend in the elbow bringing the cheek back, far to far off the stock, putting the jaw in the complete wrong position. I can guarantee everyone who has read this post has gone to they gun cabinet and tried this and will soon relies its a very good way of checking gun fit Again, i cant talk on behalf of everyone, im no expert, its just a little tip that works for me! Your last two sentences neatly self contradict. Frankly, not much of the original post is all that authoritative. Sorry, but there is much more to good gun fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spara Dritto Posted February 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 (edited) Your last two sentences neatly self contradict. Frankly, not much of the original post is all that authoritative. Sorry, but there is much more to good gun fit. watch the video buddy, im not here to tell people their right or wrong, its what has worked for my self and obviously alot of other people. The idea of this forum is to pass on information that you have heard and has worked to help other people. And as you know that there so much more to gun fit, please share it with us so i can put it at the starter post! the more info the better! Edited February 10, 2011 by Beretta Italy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 You seem to be giving a lot of instruction on here when you actually know very little in reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_R Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 Fair enough, but people believe what they read and spend money as a result... not always getting what they really need. That whole forearm/LOP thing is nothing more than a well propagated myth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spara Dritto Posted February 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 (edited) Fair enough, but people believe what they read and spend money as a result... not always getting what they really need. That whole forearm/LOP thing is nothing more than a well propagated myth. Gun fit to the EXPERT is completely unnecessary... shooting from the hip sums this up in one. there is NO need for a gun to fit you correctly by any means as i just said if experts can break clays from the hip with no aiming what so ever!!! BUT, from all their years of experience they are able to adjust the position of the gun to still hit the target from constant repitation of the same motion over a long time! But to get correct gun fit (which is free info from your gun dealer) when you start out is very important so you don’t pick up bad habits and get hurt/bruised etc from poor stock fit. Edited February 10, 2011 by Beretta Italy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spara Dritto Posted February 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 You seem to be giving a lot of instruction on here when you actually know very little in reality. Thanks for that advice, you did a great job! Im not saying i know alot, its from what i've been told, heard, read seen etc. Did i ever say anywere that this is all completly right and im amazing? nope! but I can only pass on what i was told and has worked for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spara Dritto Posted February 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 If im wrong, please tell me what has worked for you and not say "oh there are so many better things you can try for gun fit" and leave it at that as you are not helping anyone and it seems that you are here just for an argument, one of which you are not backing up claims... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_R Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 Sorry BI but I take no pleasure in arguing with you or anyone. I told you already why the elbow to hand idea is wrong. I suggest you forget about this, and enjoy your evening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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