NGO insurance V BASC

[Miroku_Dave]

Morning Pigeon Watchers,

 

My insurance is up for renewal and I have found out that I can be insured through the NGO for £30.00 versus BASC for £66.00.

 

Now as a tight Yorkshireman I am considering renewing with the NGO and saving myself £33.00 but is there any specific reason why I should go with BASC?

 

I have always been insured with them as I thought it was the only option available to me. I was under the impression that you had to be a working gamekeeper to be insured with the NGO but having spoken to them this isn’t the case; as long as I am not getting paid for my pest control services then I am covered.

 

I know the BASC do excellent work but so do the NGO. What are your opinions?

 

Cheers,

 

Dave

[al4x]

if you don't go wildfowling then its well worth a punt.

[Miroku_Dave]

No I dont, Wildfowling is something i fancy having a go at in the future but I think im too squemish to gut a goose!

[Cranfield]

If you use the "Search" facility on this section and just enter "Insurance" , you will find pages of threads on this subject.

 

Like all forms of insurance, its worth studying the small print and making accurate comparisons, to ensure you are comparing like with like.

 

The BASC subscription does not only cover insurance, they also provide other member facilities which are probably second to none.

[Miroku_Dave]

Thanks for the info I will have a look, never even thought to search

[2bangs]

I have always been with NGO, had to contact them for advice a few times and found them very helpfull and informative, good insurance cover too I I know its only 30 odd quid a year saving but it's a saving, 4 magazines ayear too

[David BASC]

As Cranfield says, BASC offers a wider range of membership services then the NGO do, that’s not to say the NGO don’t offer you anything!

 

Its also worth comparing the two insurance polices, they are not exactly alike, so get the NGO to give you a copy of the full policy wording and double check their policy has no excess on claims and double check their policy will pay out regardless of any other insurance you may have in play.

 

Than again consider the large amount of political lobbying and media work that BASC does to keep your shooting safe - insurance for shooting is no good if your shooting gets cut!

 

And finally if cash flow is an issue (and I know it is for many of us) and you want the best package that BASC offers, then from the 1st March you can spread your membership fee in 10 equal monthly instalments.

 

David

[al4x]

this double insurance issue is bull anyway, as long as you are covered how many of us really care. I'd almost prefer we joined an organisation and insurance wasn't included as its only a marketing tool to try and convince more to join. The reality is it costs them a tenner or so and the rest helps run the company. As has been said the NGO is a real option that also will give you backup with any licensing issues etc I know a lot of people who are members at half the cost its a fairly good argument,

[Miroku_Dave]

The 10 Monthly instalments would certainly help David!

[Scully]

Was with BASC for years but increasingly grew disappointed so joined NGO.Unless I'm mistaken the NGO was formed because they felt under-represented by BASC,which is disappointing.The more organisations we have,the less of an influence we can be.

[David BASC]

I am certainly going to go for it when my membership comes up for renewal in April!

 

And Al4x - personally if I am insured by XXX for my shooting and I need to make a claim I expect to make one call, fill in one form, and let them take care of it.

 

I do not expect to make one call to be told by XXX that they wont cover me until I have checked all my other liability insurance providers and had it confirmed by them that they will not cover me, and then and only then can I go back to XXX! NS in the interim the injured party’s lawyers keep writing to me to ask what’s going on, …and say my home insurance will pay for it...exactly what have I bought shooting insurance from XXX?

 

But I agree, insurance should be low on the list- the main reasons for joining an association of choice should be:

 

1. What can and do they deliver for me

2. What can and do they deliver for shooting

 

Then pick the best one you can which you can afford

 

David

[al4x]

funnily enough David isn't the other insurer quite often the NFU that you are partnering up with over pigeon shooting small world at times isn't it

[David BASC]

Hi Al4x,

 

The NGO members are covered by International insurance company Hanover ltd

 

There is a £250 excess per property damage claim

 

You are not covered if beating or picking up (so it seems)

 

You are only covered in UK (not really an issue)

 

You are only covered if not covered by any other insurance

 

This is all on the NGO web site.

 

 

NFU is an organisation for farmers, yes we are working with them in the East to develop pigeon shooting/ pest control opportunities for members

 

NFU Insurance is a commercial enterprise- a mutual company offering insurance services for the farming and wider community.

 

David

[anser2]

I cant beleve anyone is a member of any shooting organisation just for the insurance. You should join to support your sport , the insurance is just a bonus. Anyway you can get the insurance much cheeper than NGO online.

[al4x]

Hi Al4x,

 

The NGO members are covered by International insurance company Hanover ltd

 

There is a £250 excess per property damage claim

 

You are not covered if beating or picking up (so it seems)

 

You are only covered in UK (not really an issue)

 

You are only covered if not covered by any other insurance

 

This is all on the NGO web site.

 

 

NFU is an organisation for farmers, yes we are working with them in the East to develop pigeon shooting/ pest control opportunities for members

 

NFU Insurance is a commercial enterprise- a mutual company offering insurance services for the farming and wider community.

 

David

 

 

Its an interesting one David and I have to say its probably an out of date website that says the provider is the NFU but a couple of points

 

You are not covered if beating or picking up (so it seems)

 

This really isn't an issue as at that point you won't be shooting, so any injury you sustained would be by someone elses shooting who usually would have insurance and if not the shoots third party liability insurance would come into play. Interestingly your own key facts doesn't include beating or picking up, which in themselves aren't a shooting activity though you may include them elsewhere.

as for the property excess thats not much different to BASC not covering damage to fellow shooters vehicles or property owned by them etc etc everyone has small print just some are worse than others

[David BASC]

Not quite accurate Al4x,

 

The NGO changed their web page about their insurance last year – but I agree they used to be insured with NFU mutual as far as I am aware

 

You may be surprised to see how many claims come in from beating and picking up- often property damage claims, claims are not just for shooting related damage / injury.

 

Your statement assumes that all shoots / shooters are insured - not so I am afraid to say.

 

The BASC policy certainly does cover member to member liability - i.e. damage to another member’s property, but does exclude property in your custardy or control

 

The BASC policy certainly does cover beating and picking up

 

Yes all policies have exclusions, but beef is that apart form BASC I don’t know of nay other organisation that send all new members a copy of the policy summary, Key Facts, AND a copy of the full policy wording – so how do you know what you are buying?

 

And I could not agree more with anser2!

 

David

[Paul223]

Interesting David, do you know how SACS compares to BASC?

[BlaserF3]

Here http://www.ccc3.org.uk/docs/policy.pdf is the cc3 policy.

[David BASC]

SACS do not put up on their web a copy of their Key Facts or a full policy summary or a copy of the full policy wording, so frankly its a bit tricky to tell exactly what you are insured for, what the policy endorsements are, what excess may apply, what restrictions may apply to cover or claims and what, if any warrants apply to the policy.

 

I do know it covers hunting, hacking and general horse use which the BASC policy does not

 

To the best of my knowledge they are still using NFU Mutual and if this is the case them the policy cover / application limits are likely to be similar to those I list above for the current NGO policy.

 

Frankly if an insurance policy has all sorts of limits on it, and that’s why its cheap – I don’t see that as a problem at all – PROVIDED the organization that’s trying to sell you it is up front about all the restrictions, and don’t try to make out their cheap product is the same as a more expensive one!

 

Anyway, the main thing is to join something!

 

David

[Scully]

I don't know what to suggest to be honest.Over the years I've been a member of the NRA,the NPA,the SRA,BASC and now NGO.By all means get insured from somewhere,but at the end of the day,don't forget that the things an organisation can do for you are limited.Each of the organisations I've metioned have been found wanting when the chips are down(the NGO hasn't been tested as yet)yet all claimed they were helpingsafeguard the future of shooting.Their effect and influence is not really something that governments have ever needed to be worried about-biased media,ignorant or indifferent public,an un-unified shooting community,including the shooting organisations themselves(Otherwise why isn't there just the one?)all significantly have a detrimental effect on shootings future.

I'm not saying you shouldn't join any,or all,but you should give some thought to what you think an organisation can do for you and what you expect from it.

[gsm1968]

 

You are only covered in UK (not really an issue)

 

 

David

 

I think this is a bigger issue than people think. If you ever shoot abroad you don't need the hassle of organizing separate insurance.

I have shot in Finland, and only because I was insured.

 

And regularly shoot in Africa. All booked for 4 weeks in August :yahoo:

 

BASC for me

[Glenshooter]

Each of the organisations I've metioned have been found wanting when the chips are down(the NGO hasn't been tested as yet)....... saying you shouldn't join any,or all,but you should give some thought to what you think an organisation can do for you and what you expect from it.

 

Well I tested BASC, or at least my firearms licensing authority did. And they were great. Nothing was too much trouble and the relationships they seemed to have with the firearms people was worth its weight in gold. So its BASC for me.

[Deerstalkerlunt]

BASC are useless!!! I used to be with BASC when I first started applying for my firearms license, I had some trouble with Merseyside police not giving me certain calibres (They also said they wasnt giving me a centrefire but came back with .22-250) and having ridiculous conditions on my license! Even though I had alot of experience and good cause for needing certain firearms. So I rang up BASC North west firearms department, spoke to a guy there, cant remember his name but I told him about my circumstances and he replied with " Oh I used to work at Merseyide police firearms department and I sat across the desk from Bob (Head FLO) and I am very good friends with him so I cant really help you", thats when I left BASC plus they are also money grabbers!

I am now with the NGO, as they cover Deer stalking i.e. taking clients out etc. Plus very good for finding out changes in legislation, along with helping prospective keepers look for work.

[David BASC]

As all calls to our firearms team are recorded, I would love to look into this accusation. How long ago was this?

 

I know the member of BASC staff you are talking about, he is an ex FLO from Merseyside.

 

He certainly would not have said he can’t help you just because he knows the FLM - the BASC firearms team knows ALL the FLM's in the UK for goodness sake.

 

As with any story there are always two sides. I remember one poster years ago claimed BASC had failed him as he had applied for a .22rf and been knocked back and BASC's response to him was 'get an airgun'.

 

What actually happened was the he had got a new permission on a golf course, and wanted to use 22rf- the police were a bit wary and were dragging their feet over a site visit, so our guidance ot the member was that while we worked with him to get the 22rf sorted he could still go on his new permission to control the rabbets using an airgun, that ay he would keep his permission until, rather than not turn up at all and risk loosing his new permission.

 

Decisions on firearms cases are taken based on the information the member has given us, but as I have said before, I accept that we may well not get it right 100% of the time, but we do try to, and I know we get it right the vast majority of times,

 

Organizations DO make a difference in how the shooting laws come about in the UK. Remember if it was not for BASC for example, woodpigeons would probably be subject to a shooting season.

 

To answer the other point, as to why there is not just one single shooting organization, there will always be specialist shooting organizations representing their part of the sport, especially target shooting like the CPSA, NRA and NSRA – none of whom look after live quarry shooting.

 

There are others that will spring up simply because they don’t like how the existing organization is doing things, such as SACS, NGO and the Sportsman’s Association for example.

 

No organization is perfect!

 

David

[Scully]

Indeed,no organisation is perfect,and I'm not talking about help with individual problems shooters can find themselves facing.Over the years the shooting community have had more and more legislation heaped upon them,and all the organisations can do is 'damage limitation',and if a government decides to ignore the organisations then there's nothing we can do about it,that's all there is to it.

All I am saying is that before you part with your money,just realise that joining an organisation does not ensure 'the future of shooting'.You do not havew to join to become insured.

Ideally we would have one organisation that could encompass all country pursuits,horse ridind,fishing,hunting,airguns,game,clays,targets,pistols,stalking...the lot,and all individuals were members.Then we would be a politicians worst nightmare....but it aint gonna happen.