maximum ft/lbs available for FAC ?

[TaxiDriver]

Who makes the highest ft/lbs rating Air rifles for FAC excluding 'one offs/custom builds'

 

I've been looking a FAC air rifles and it seems hardly worth bothering for some of them as they're as little as 19ft/lbs which doesn't seem alot over non fac, I thought I'd seen 80ft/lbs somewhere from someone.

 

So I suppose something in the 24ft/lbs to 30ft/lbs is gonna pack a fair wallop ?

Edited February 20, 2011 by TaxiDriver

[Dekers]

Daystate can manage 80ft lb allegedly, I suspect others can do better, but anything this powerful in an air rifle is dumb, expensive, daft on air, generally inconsistent and a waste of time...WHY?

[The Burpster]

Whilst I agree it is possible to 'do' FAC air way past 40 ft/lbs, I agree with Dekers. There is very little point unless the point is to do it because you can.

 

You can get rf loads down to 30ft/lbs, and in use these are silent and consistent. Anything above 30ft/lbs using PCP is difficult to quieten and difficult to keep accurate.

 

Whilst it is achievable it is massively expensive and frankly, slightly bonkers.

[RC45]

I thought 80 was about the norm. Not sure what the legal limit is though.

 

[p barrett]

i agree i have had a 80 ft/p air/ranger , the accuracy was terrible and i tried every pellet there was ,shooting 28g daystate at 950,ft/second , i gave up in the end , i now shoot a mk/1 and a mk/2 rapid both 40ft/p at 1065 ft/second with 15.9 jsb,s both guns have bsa barrells and are deadly accurate ,cheers jazz

[starlord]

i got a career 707 at about 75 fp and i find it very good to use and very accurate gun just a bit on the loud side ,dont be put off i have a rapid at 30fp and its not even close to the career remember these guns were made to do high power ,i reconmend them ,

[HoTsHoT-10]

Why have all the power if you can't hit a barn door?

I read on another forum that a guy took a hare out at about 120yards with his falcon that was around 28 ft/lbs

[Bleeh]

Another thing that should be added. Past around 1200fps (1125fps at 8grain which is about 22.50 ft/lbs) you'll be breaking the sound barrier. This will add a rather distinctive 'crack' to each of your shots, so in reality making your gun much, much loader.

[Pigeon Popper]

I've read about PCP air rifles which produce over 500 ft/lb of energy, in large calibers. Although you only get one of two shots per fill!

 

PS: As far as I'm aware there is no legal limit on FAC airguns...

[hoTshoT-16]

i thought they were for big game hunting, like deer

because they have around 350ft/lb and in .45cal onwards :blink:

[Dekers]

I thought 80 was about the norm. Not sure what the legal limit is though.

 

 

Certainly not the norm, at a guess I would say in .22 very few go above 40ft lb, and at .177 certainly less!

 

At 80 ft lb you are really into .22lr territory which will deliver FAR more consistency (accuracy) and a MUCH wider range of ammo options including Shotshells!....and remember you need a FAC either way!

Edited February 21, 2011 by Dekers

[happyshooter]

Hi TD, in my experience the best fpe for fac is 30fpe .22 calibre ,

i use bisley mag pellets and my favoured gun is a rapid, this gun is my nv gun

for daytime fac shooting i use a mk-2rapid .20 @26 fpe with H&N FT pellets ,

and as stated there is no legal limit on max power, But imho any thing over 40fpe is awaste of air,

regds brian

[Pigeon Popper]

i thought they were for big game hunting, like deer

because they have around 350ft/lb and in .45cal onwards :blink:

Yeah like these. They seem to be doing it just to prove that they can! :o

[hoTshoT-16]

:o :o A MAN SHOT A 2000LB BISON WITH AN AIRRIFLE!!!!! :wacko:

THATS JUST CRAZY

[rabbit.slayer.no.1]

:o :o A MAN SHOT A 2000LB BISON WITH AN AIRRIFLE!!!!! :wacko:

THATS JUST CRAZY

mind you he was only 53yrds away and hitting it twice with a .45 510 grn pellet at around 350lbs lol

[TaxiDriver]

Reason I asked,

 

I'm looking at an Air Arms summat or other, .25cal supposedly putting out at 31ft/lbs

its £450 with a couple of buddy bottles and a load of various pellets and some spare O rings for the bottles

My only reservation (personal preference?) is the length of the barrel/moderator (it's long)

 

Would this make for a good rabbit weapon ?

[pabs]

Any rifle that can put a pellet in the kill zone at 4ftlb upwards is enough to kill a rabbit. The only difference with a 31ftlb rifle is that you can do it from a lot further away.

This is a good thing. So yes, this rifle would be good. You can sit off at 70+ yrds and pop them from there. If you're a decent enough shooter of course.

Remember that the pellet will pass through the target EASILY at pretty much whatever range you can hit it from (even out at 100 yrds) :o So be sure of what is behind the target.....

Edited February 22, 2011 by pabs

[jasons gold]

Reason I asked,

 

I'm looking at an Air Arms summat or other, .25cal supposedly putting out at 31ft/lbs

its £450 with a couple of buddy bottles and a load of various pellets and some spare O rings for the bottles

My only reservation (personal preference?) is the length of the barrel/moderator (it's long)

 

Would this make for a good rabbit weapon ?

 

Depends how long the overall lengh was and how you intended to use it ie from a vehicle or walking

[steve_b_wales]

My FAC S410 is set at 28ft/lb and is excellent and very accurate.

[The Burpster]

Any rifle that can put a pellet in the kill zone at 4ftlb upwards is enough to kill a rabbit. The only difference with a 31ftlb rifle is that you can do it from a lot further away.

This is a good thing. So yes, this rifle would be good. You can sit off at 70+ yrds and pop them from there. If you're a decent enough shooter of course.

Remember that the pellet will pass through the target EASILY at pretty much whatever range you can hit it from (even out at 100 yrds) :o So be sure of what is behind the target.....

 

 

I'm curious. From where do you get your terminal ballistics info that states 4 ft/lbs will kill..?

 

Also what kill zone are you quoting for that...?

 

I'm genuinely surprised that you would suggest someone should try shooting at rabbits at 70yds with an air rifle, whatever its potential muzzle energy.

 

As for a pellet exiting a rabbit.....

 

An airgun pellet producing 30 ftlbs at the muzzle will have such a loopy trajectory that at 70 yards only the most skilled of shots would be able to guarantee anything like a 1/2 decent group. Can you show me a target that you have kept sub 1 MOA at that range with an air rifle? I struggled with that level of accuracy with a Sako Finnfire and Lapua ammo.

 

I would suggest that shooting at rabbits at 70+ yards with a 30ft lbs air rifle is only very likely to wound or miss.

[pabs]

I'm curious. From where do you get your terminal ballistics info that states 4 ft/lbs will kill..?

 

Also what kill zone are you quoting for that...?

 

I'm genuinely surprised that you would suggest someone should try shooting at rabbits at 70yds with an air rifle, whatever its potential muzzle energy.

 

As for a pellet exiting a rabbit.....

 

An airgun pellet producing 30 ftlbs at the muzzle will have such a loopy trajectory that at 70 yards only the most skilled of shots would be able to guarantee anything like a 1/2 decent group. Can you show me a target that you have kept sub 1 MOA at that range with an air rifle? I struggled with that level of accuracy with a Sako Finnfire and Lapua ammo.

 

I would suggest that shooting at rabbits at 70+ yards with a 30ft lbs air rifle is only very likely to wound or miss.

 

At 31ftlb, the trajectory is MUCH flatter. Not so loopy as a sub 12ftlb. A 70 yrd kill shot is quite easy, IF you can shoot half decent. Plus, you will have course, as a responsible hunter, mapped out your scope.

4ftlb is more than enough to kill a rabbit with a .25, in the vitals area, or the head.

Either that or the ones I have shot for the last ten years are playing dead.....

 

And as for exiting a rabbit at 70 yards? A 31 ftlb air rifle, shot from 70 yards with a 20gr .25 pellet will still have 15ftlb energy at the target.(H&N FTT 0.0240 BC)

 

Edit- YOU HAVE PROBLEMS GETTING SUB MOA WITH A SAKO WITH LAPUA AMMO AT 70 YARDS???!!!

Edited February 22, 2011 by pabs

[FalconFN]

At 70 yards, even with 31 ft/lb you would have to be an exceptional shot to be sure of the kill: the pellet drop would be 5" with 20 grain pellets with a 50 yard zero.

 

I wouldn't be confident taking that on.

[The Burpster]

At 31ftlb, the trajectory is MUCH flatter. Not so loopy as a sub 12ftlb. A 70 yrd kill shot is quite easy, IF you can shoot half decent. Plus, you will have course, as a responsible hunter, mapped out your scope.

4ftlb is more than enough to kill a rabbit with a .25, in the vitals area, or the head.

Either that or the ones I have shot for the last ten years are playing dead.....

 

And as for exiting a rabbit at 70 yards? A 31 ftlb air rifle, shot from 70 yards with a 20gr .25 pellet will still have 15ftlb energy at the target.(H&N FTT 0.0240 BC)

 

Edit- YOU HAVE PROBLEMS GETTING SUB MOA WITH A SAKO WITH LAPUA AMMO AT 70 YARDS???!!!

 

 

You seem to have been a little selective at which points you have taken from my post, I not interested in playing that game, but will address your post above.

 

I will grant that at 31ftlbs (muzzle energy) an airgun pellet will have a flatter trajectory, but it will also be supersonic so we are not talking a comparator like for like with sub sonic .rf.

 

You again quote above that 4 ft/lb is enough to kill but dont quote the source of this info - you do then go on to quote that you have worked out that you are still carrying 15ftlbs of energy at 70 yds. So your kills at 70 yds are at 15ftlbs not 4.

 

Culling rabbits with 4 ftlbs is clearly contrary to the BASC guidelines which preceeds this section and posting that you feel its ok is a tad irresponsible.

 

...and now to your missquote. I did not say I have 'PROBLEMS' getting sub MOA but keeping factory subsonics less than that at that range is not easy in any .rf and to say it is is bravado. Factory produced .rf rounds are simply not sufficiently accurate to provide 100% reliable results. Airgun pellets are no better and you cannot gaurantee that you are not going toget a 'flyer'.

 

Supersonic .rf would not be a problem sub MOA out to 125 (in the Finnfire), but its pointless using a moderator with supersonic .rf as it doesnt have sufficient effect on the report.

Edited February 23, 2011 by The Burpster

[pabs]

Oh crikey! Where to begin with that reply..... And I'll try and be a bit more thorough with my response this time.

 

4 ftlb to kill a rabbit and my source of info? Me. I've used a HW45 pistol to clear rabbits near farm buildings, from 20 odd yrds away. Terminal energy is around 4ftlb. Killzone just above and behind the shoulder. Did they always instantly drop on the spot? No, some ran 10 or 20 yards before doing the breakdance, but they died. ( I used the HW due to nearby buildings and did not want over penetration)

 

At 31ftlb, you would need to be shooting in .177 to get the pellet supersonic. Not too many 31ftlb .177 out there.... The OP is talking .25 calibre. 31ftlb would put a standard .25 pellet(the H&N FTT 20gr) at 835fps. Where are you getting YOUR data from?? A supersonic pellet is of absolutely no use anyway. The transonic stage completely destabilises an airgun pellet making it very inaccurate beyond 30 yards at best.

 

I quoted 15ftlb at 70 yards as you seemed to doubt a pellets ability to pass through a rabbit's body. You questioned it after stating QUOTE- I'm genuinely surprised that you would suggest someone should try shooting at rabbits at 70yds with an air rifle, whatever its potential muzzle energy.

 

As for a pellet exiting a rabbit.....-QUOTE Obviously that would not be the case at 4ftlb.

 

Culling rabbits at 4ftlb may indeed be contrary to BASC guidelines. It's certainly better to have more energy of course, but some situations call for low energy culling. I would imagine that guideline is to try an prevent idiots with their brand new toy going out and blasting whatever moves, from whatever distance.

 

To my 'Misquote'. You said you 'struggled' to achieve sub MOA. I think the word 'problem' is a fair comparison?

Factory rounds, while indeed do suffer from inconsistencies , (it's a little known fact that rimfire ammo is VERY difficult to make en-mass fullstop) are very much up to the job of sub MOA at 70 yards. I used the lowly Winchester Subs' in my CZ and bar the odd flyer, could confidently put 5 within a tenpence piece on a regular basis at 70 (my zero was 80). And thats not bravado. Please don't judge someone elses ability by your own.

Ten years of pesting on a near semi professional basis has afforded me with a little experience. I make a point of knowing what my rifle does at any given range, be it a rimfire, FAC air or sub 12ftlb. My scopes are always mapped out within the rifles effective range. It's what a responsible hunter does.

Edited February 23, 2011 by pabs

[Dekers]

Any rifle that can put a pellet in the kill zone at 4ftlb upwards is enough to kill a rabbit. The only difference with a 31ftlb rifle is that you can do it from a lot further away.

This is a good thing. So yes, this rifle would be good. You can sit off at 70+ yrds and pop them from there. If you're a decent enough shooter of course.

Remember that the pellet will pass through the target EASILY at pretty much whatever range you can hit it from (even out at 100 yrds) :o So be sure of what is behind the target.....

 

 

You seem to have been a little selective at which points you have taken from my post, I not interested in playing that game, but will address your post above.

 

I will grant that at 31ftlbs (muzzle energy) an airgun pellet will have a flatter trajectory, but it will also be supersonic so we are not talking a comparator like for like with sub sonic .rf.

 

You again quote above that 4 ft/lb is enough to kill but dont quote the source of this info - you do then go on to quote that you have worked out that you are still carrying 15ftlbs of energy at 70 yds. So your kills at 70 yds are at 15ftlbs not 4.

 

Culling rabbits with 4 ftlbs is clearly contrary to the BASC guidelines which preceeds this section and posting that you feel its ok is a tad irresponsible.

 

...and now to your missquote. I did not say I have 'PROBLEMS' getting sub MOA but keeping factory subsonics less than that at that range is not easy in any .rf and to say it is is bravado. Factory produced .rf rounds are simply not sufficiently accurate to provide 100% reliable results. Airgun pellets are no better and you cannot gaurantee that you are not going toget a 'flyer'.

 

Supersonic .rf would not be a problem sub MOA out to 125 (in the Finnfire), but its pointless using a moderator with supersonic .rf as it doesnt have sufficient effect on the report.

 

 

Guys

 

I'm not getting in the middle of this one as you are doing fine by yourselves. Just a couple of points.

 

I feel pabs fugures are the extreme and not the norm, most people have their 100ft lb + rimfires zeroed for 50-60 yards, 70 yards with a 31 ft lb air rifle (especially if it is .25 as one of your posts may suggest) is a long way.

 

The Burpster, if we do consider this to be a 20g .25 delivering 31 ft lb it is nowhere near supersonic!

 

ATB!