nobby63 Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 Hi Guys,Had a load of chew today sighting my telescopic sights on my cz 452 .22 out in the field,the grouping all ova the place to the size of a cd disc was the best I could get ova only 50yds,kept out the wind etc. In the end I took it down the gun club but its range is only 25yds, but this is what ive done, tightened the sights more than I like and removed the moderator.After 10 rounds started to achieve better group,so stuck mod back on and it started shooting High ? Probs put some of the grouping down to slight wobble off me but should the sound mod cause such a big change at 25 yds it was approx shooting high by good inch/20mm rounds were whinchester subsonic Anyway is a new mod on the cards ? it isn't a named one that I have but was told its a 'goodun' from its last owner Any tips or thoughts, have you had simular problems? Any reply from you guys would be appreciated. thanks keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin lad Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 Hi Guys,Had a load of chew today sighting my telescopic sights on my cz 452 .22 out in the field,the grouping all ova the place to the size of a cd disc was the best I could get ova only 50yds,kept out the wind etc. In the end I took it down the gun club but its range is only 25yds, but this is what ive done, tightened the sights more than I like and removed the moderator.After 10 rounds started to achieve better group,so stuck mod back on and it started shooting High ? Probs put some of the grouping down to slight wobble off me but should the sound mod cause such a big change at 25 yds it was approx shooting high by good inch/20mm rounds were whinchester subsonic Anyway is a new mod on the cards ? it isn't a named one that I have but was told its a 'goodun' from its last owner Any tips or thoughts, have you had simular problems? Any reply from you guys would be appreciated. thanks keith had the same problem when i got my .22lr but my groups were the size of a football changed the mod and the groups came down to a 5p piece app the rounds were clipping the mod colin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barney 66 Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 Had a problem years ago on an air rifle,bought a new carbon fibre mod and the grouping was everywhere turns out the pellets were clipping the inside of the mod,took it back and exchanged it and it was fine,also have you tried cleaning the barrel, Hope this helps,im sure others will be along soon with other ideas to try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barney 66 Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 Looks like my typing is to slow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Duncan Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 had the same problem when i got my .22lr but my groups were the size of a football changed the mod and the groups came down to a 5p piece app the rounds were clipping the mod colin Common problem with slightly mis-aligned moderators - there's often a tell-tale clipped edge if you look at the exit point on the mod. Happens with air rifles too sometimes. Duncan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reggiegun Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 Put some white tippex on inside of mod exit hole (let it dry) and you will see if the bullets are clipping the mod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remy 700 Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 Hi get a moderator off the wabbitbosher on here , cheers remy 700 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobby63 Posted March 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 Cheers for the replies lads, so defo do a few checks with the mod ! will try the tipex that reggiegun suggests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 check the barrel is fully floating if its meant to be, run a piece of card between barrel and stock up to the action, if its touching its easy to recify with a piece of glass paper wrapped round something of a similar dia to barrel. Have heard of the front end action screw sometimes touching barrel,if so the card will snag on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foggy011983 Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 I have a cz 452 american and at 50 yards can get each shot touching each other. At 100 yards giving compensation i can get all shots within an inch. I would get a vehicle lean on the bonnet in the field and try shooting 50 yards without the moderator. If you can get decent grouping, try with the mod and see if everything goes tits up. If so id try a different moderator. As mentioned above if you find even without a mod you cant get a decent grouping make sure the barrel is free floating. Is the rifle new or second hand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stubby Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 did you try different ammo?, although all my mates swear by winchesters, mine hates them and gives erratic grouping, stick eleys in, spot on every time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 Just a thought - You might like to check the crown on your rifle. If it hasn't been crowned properly or if you have somehow managed to knock the crown you could find that will give accuracy problems like those that you are experiencing. I have to say though that your problem sounds more like moderator related. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 Hi, Just a quicky: At the range when you started getting better groups, other than the MPI changing when you put the moderator back on (1" ish high), did the group size alter - you didn't say? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobby63 Posted March 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 Hi Lads , Some great replies now here are the answers with a bit more history. CZ American bought second hand, rifle and mod then the owner informs me of the sights simmons white tail classics with mounts so ok put on the bill. The first bit of chew was fitting the sights and mounts so I could achieve adjustment (hoizontal/vertical)swap from front to rear the mounts, then tinkered with holding clamp screws to get even(like a cylinder head torquedown)finally had within a CD disc grouping(naff)I then stripped mod(full of krud)wipped crown clean(brand new)then off to the range!, without mod achieved an ok grouping then with mod shooting high, did try different ammo with same result. Haven't cleaned barrel so that maybe a cause ? But have confirmed barrel float with paper(no contact),and with mod on as wymberley asked the group was more spacered :eg from a five pence to a fifty. Done the tipex and I carn't see any sign of contact ?(only fired two rounds is that enough ?)So what do you suggest? Change Mod ! then clean barrel !Any suggestion all give a try ! cheers keith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadioles Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 You need to do one thing at a time. Slow and logical. Remove the moderator. Thoroughly clean the barrel and the moderator. Without the moderator fire 5 shots (use a bipod) at, say, 35 yards and see how they group. If it is a reasonable group (one inch will do) then ok so far. If it is not a good group then try different ammunition. Also check stock screws, scope, and all the other stuff. You need to get your accuracy sorted before worrying about the moderator. Screw on the moderator and fire another 5 shots. With a moderator fitted, the size of the group should be similar (often better) but the bullets will land in a different place (you suggested high?). That is normal and just shows how the moderator has affected the balance and harmonics of the barrel. If, with the moderator on, the group size has opened up and is now all over the place it suggests the moderator is causing the problem so take 5 more shots without it, just to prove it, and see if you are back to a smaller group again. Even now, don't assume it is a faulty moderator, it could be a misaligned thread on the gun. Borrow another moderator (pretty much all of them do a good job with .22LR) and try again. A logical process of elimination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sen Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 i have seen you shoot many times,maybe you carnt shoot straight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobby63 Posted March 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 Defo going down the logical approach ! Thought the shooting high was a bit strange when fitting mod, thats why I posted this problem to see if others had same experiances. Then you hear dont clean your barrel as you can cause grouping problems ? Hopefully my shooting bud SEN ( THE **** )will borrow me his mod to make a comparison, and then later look at barrel clean. Cheers for all replies Guys much appreciated and if anyone else has a thought please add, thanks Keith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted March 11, 2011 Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 (edited) also have you tried cleaning the barrel, A very good point, people think you don't have to clean the barrel on .22s but you do. Its rubbish what people say about "oh I cleaned my barrel and it was all over the place" Top flight .22 target shooters at International level clean theirs regularly, I would rather believe them. Worst of all apparantly is mixing copper coated bullets with ordinary lead bullets. Edited March 11, 2011 by Vince Green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted March 11, 2011 Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 A very good point, people think you don't have to clean the barrel on .22s but you do. Its rubbish what people say about "oh I cleaned my barrel and it was all over the place" Top flight .22 target shooters at International level clean theirs regularly, I would rather believe them. Worst of all apparantly is mixing copper coated bullets with ordinary lead bullets. I had big problems switching form Winny Sub X to Stingers thought it was the sight no it was the lead copper mix I now only use subs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadioles Posted March 11, 2011 Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 Just find which bullet suits your gun and then stick to it. The difference between apparently identical guns is surprising. I cannot put Ely subs through my CZ as they chamber too tightly, CCI catches on the chamber as it is loading but most others fit ok but still shoot differently, all a bit spooky. You will always find one make of bullet that groups best. The trajectory of each make of bullet also varies quite a bit so having set zero at one distance you need to know how the bullet falls at different distances either side of the zero. Anything much worse than 4 or 5 shots in a one inch group at 50 yards needs sorting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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