30-6 Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 At the end of my conditions bit - "in the calibres authorised by this certificate and use only in connection with the shooting of vermin or, in connection with the management of any estate, other wildlife". What does the last bit underlined mean exactly ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowboy1403 Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 if i`m reading right it means you can use your rifle for paid stalking and not have to use estate rifle,if it is a suitable calibre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 It means that if you are managing the land (i.e. shooting critters for the protection of crops and livestock) you can shoot anything that it's lawful to shoot. In English, you have permission to shoot on the land and manage pest control so you can use your rifles for whatever quarry they're legal to use on. Just another way of them saying .... and any lawful quarry. Shame my mob don't play fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newsportshooter Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 Don’t mean to be all holier than thou. But I have to say it is worrying that you have an open certificate when you don’t understand such basics? This clause asside, do you understand the personal responsibility that an open certificate demands? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
30-6 Posted March 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 I was thinking that as i wrote it, being granted a certificate but not understanding it fully, so that's why i thought to be a responsible shooter and ask what i didn't understand. It has never been explained to me exactly what the wording means by anyone, and i wouldn't call it basic stuff personally, as each force from what i can see has a different approach to wording. I understand that i am personally responsible for "assessing the land" if that's what you mean. Always willing to learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 (edited) I too have this wording in the condition about "Expanding Ammunition" on my conditions. Having looked at this thread it has put "doubt/questions" in my mind so maybe someone with a bit of legal knowledge on shooting affairs could elaborate on what exactly it does mean in laymans terms please or would it be better to call my Firearms Office and ask them to explain it for me? Edited March 17, 2011 by Frenchieboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CZ550Kevlar Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 Personally i`m going to phone my FEO and ask from the horses mouth as this has always been discussed as a grey area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaxiDriver Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 I too have this wording in the condition about "Expanding Ammunition" on my conditions. Having looked at this thread it has put "doubt/questions" in my mind so maybe someone with a bit of legal knowledge on shooting affairs could elaborate on what exactly it does mean in laymans terms please or would it be better to call my Firearms Office and ask them to explain it for me? Well your FEO is unlikely to climb aboard the same moral high horse that some others have Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 Well your FEO is unlikely to climb aboard the same moral high horse that some others have I've just spoken to my Firearms Office and even they are not sure on the correct interpretation of this clause so they have advised my to call the Issuing Officer on Monday and he will hopefully be able to give his full interpretaioon of that part of the conditions. It does strike me as a little odd/questionable that a Firearms Office Manager can not give an explanation of one of the "conditions" on a Firearms Certificate. I will post the outcome when I have it on Monday! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 Frenchiboy I am appalled that your firearms office are unable to give you a simple explanation for what is quite simply standard wording on fac's. This condition if read fully and in it's entirety relates to the use of Expanding Ammunition only and does not relate to what you may or may not use your guns for. It is the standard expanding ammunition condition used on fac's. Quite simply it is an all encompassing wording to cover any and all uses that the law stipulates expanding ammunition may be used for. However as I said this in no way overrides the conditions imposed by the chief constable relating to what you are permitted to shoot with your rifle. These conditions are listed separately. Charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 (edited) CharlieT, that is basically how I was interpreting it as it is with the condition for "Expanding Ammunition" and not really connected to the rifle usage conditions! It does also (As I said) strike me as a bit unusual for my Firearme Office not to be able to explain it - The young lady I spoke to even went and asked her manager and he could not offer an explanation - One would have thought that this clause, being quite a common/standard one could have been explained by the staff without having to wait to ask the Issuing Officer! I was really only interested in checking on this as it does seem to be a but of a grey area for some. Edited March 17, 2011 by Frenchieboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 Frenchiboy What hope for the rest of us if the manager is clueless. I can understand some of the girls not knowing, sometimes they are temps and it is after all just a clerks job but the manager not knowing beggers belief. Charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 Frenchiboy What hope for the rest of us if the manager is clueless. I can understand some of the girls not knowing, sometimes they are temps and it is after all just a clerks job but the manager not knowing beggers belief. Charlie I'm in total agreement! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 OK Guys! I have just spoken to my Firearms Cartificate Issuing Officer and he has explained the condition. What it basically meant is that with that condition you can shoot any other legal quarry with the calibre rifle that it is refering to. The way it was explained to me is that it is now a fairly standard wordine that is attached to the "Expanding Ammunition" condition! The mystery is now solved and I am happy as I asked for "Any other legal quarry" to be added to my FAC when I sent in for the variation for the 243, so I have the equivilent of what I asked for! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 thats wrong frenchie its nothing to do with any legal quarry and has been on my FAC since I had the first one, as Charliet correctly says it is to do with what you can use expanding ammo on but is over ruled by conditions placed on your rifles. If you have any legal quarry then its simply with the expanding ammo part, I don't have any legal quarry but have exactly the same written under the expanding ammo section as will anyone with a FAC with anything other than target shooting on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 Frenchie Believe and take note of what Alex has said. The wording you refer to is the standard condition for expanding ammo and this wording in one form or another has appeared on my certificate since expanding ammo was made section 5. It ONLY applies to the ammo and most certainly does not and must not be confused with the conditions which relate to your rifles. As I said before I am appalled that the employees of your licensing department are giving you such blatantly incorrect information. You may be forgiven for not understanding the wording but your firearms team simply have no excuse, all they have to do is to read the words of this condition which say "The certificate holder may possess, purchase or acquire expanding ammunition, or the missiles of such ammunition, .......etc.........and only use in connection with.....etc." to understand that this condition only talks about expanding ammo. The additional condition which relates to your rifles are in a separate condition where it states what they may be used for. For heavens sake they must understand those as they are the ones that imposed them !. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 Charlie I am with you here, quite right, this is only ammo and is the standard wording section 5 exemption. As for your rifle uses it is irrelevant. I am deeply concerned a licensing manager could fail to know this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 (edited) Sorry double post. Edited March 23, 2011 by Mr_Logic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 Al4x and Charlie T, I have only repeated what I have been told today by the Issuing Officer from my Firearms Office. I do not want to get involved in any arguments about it, I am only repeating what was explained to me. Maybe you have a different interpretation to the one that I have been given but I am happy with that explanation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 Its not an interpretation he is wrong simple as that If you have any legal quarry against all your rifles then its irrelevant but its not something for anyone with lesser wording to take as correct as it isn't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 Frenchie Not having a pop at you at all. It's just that the information given to you by the so called "Issuing Officer" is so blatantly wrong and incorrect it's bordering on criminal. Anyone following the advice you have been given and heaven forbid others reading this and following it will put themselves in the position of breaching the conditions of their FAC. There is nothing to interpret and the expanding ammo condition does not differ force to force, the officer is wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adymorris Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 (edited) ^^^ what al4x said ^^^ If it was to do with any legal quarry why would you have specific species against each caliber as the term any legal quarry would cover that bit would it not ? If the FLO did say that get it in writing that way you have in effect received permission from the issuing force and you have a cast iron get out of jail free card if it all goes pear shaped somehow I don't think you'd be getting a letter in the post anytime soon Edited March 28, 2011 by adymorris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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