2bangs Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 And our "sport" isn't cruel at all ? If people want to spend thousands and thousands buying and training horses then kill them in a race then that's their "sport". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 http://www.horsedeathwatch.com/ KW That makes for pretty grim reading Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 (edited) Maybe one year a few jockeys will get killed not the poor horses maybe then they will pull the plug on the cruel barbaric race. Edited April 10, 2011 by blackbird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoTshoT-16 Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 the jumps get higher and higher every year until theres a death and then they lower them my grandad had racing horses and they raced all over the country but the bes died after many a sucees and fell at ascot in front of him and me gran, this was a cuople of years ago and it got shot on site he stopped racin g the horses after that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune82 Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 good point Dazza Do we really NEED to shoot game birds? Very interesting thread this. A few different points of view, yet civil for a change. No we do not. However I think the advantages of driven game shooting outweigh the downsides. The syndicate I am a member of shoots about 800 birds a season and releases a lot more. The amount of conservation etc we carry out provides habitat for a whole range of other wildlife as do the acres of game cover and managed woodland. I dont see what advantages training race horses has on the wider environment other than providing jobs, which shooting does, and making some people very rich, which I suppose shooting also does! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 (edited) What about if they ate the fallen horses, French stylee? No waste then I can't comment, I have a problem with horses and so cannot give an unbiased view, apart from that I would happily eat them if they started to appear on restaurant menus Edited April 10, 2011 by Mungler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune82 Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 What about if they ate the fallen horses, French stylee? No waste then I can't comment, I have a problem with horses and so cannot give an unbiased view, apart from that I would happily eat them if they started to appear on restaurant menus I ate some in France this year! Was actually very nice, I would recommend it!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 (edited) I ate some in France this year! Was actually very nice, I would recommend it!! I tried some once, but it was very, very tough. I suppose I should have killed it and cooked it first, so my own fault really Edited April 10, 2011 by poontang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MM Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 No we do not. However I think the advantages of driven game shooting outweigh the downsides. The syndicate I am a member of shoots about 800 birds a season and releases a lot more. The amount of conservation etc we carry out provides habitat for a whole range of other wildlife as do the acres of game cover and managed woodland. I dont see what advantages training race horses has on the wider environment other than providing jobs, which shooting does, and making some people very rich, which I suppose shooting also does! Other than that of teaching student vets, training book makers, farriers fees, haymakers, sadle makers, the list goes on. How doe we now that these horse trainers are not planting 1000 trees every time their horse races. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune82 Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 Other than that of teaching student vets, training book makers, farriers fees, haymakers, sadle makers, the list goes on. How doe we now that these horse trainers are not planting 1000 trees every time their horse races. Shooting benefits gun makers, cartridge makers, wellie boot makers, clothing manufacturers, dog breeders, vets, game farmers, farmers providing grain and straw, gamekeepers... the list is endless. I very much doubt any real habitat improvement takes place as a result of horse racing. All the benefiting industries you listed would continue to survive without horse racing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 Shooting benefits gun makers, cartridge makers, wellie boot makers, clothing manufacturers, dog breeders, vets, game farmers, farmers providing grain and straw, gamekeepers... the list is endless. I very much doubt any real habitat improvement takes place as a result of horse racing. All the benefiting industries you listed would continue to survive without horse racing. you forget its the main employer of anorexic dwarfs. KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune82 Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 you forget its the main employer of anorexic dwarfs. KW Good point. The government would probably have to start up some sort of anorexic dwarf support service which would no doubt cost hundreds of millions of pounds to maintain. On second thoughts lets just keep the racing, its cheaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 Yeah, I've long since gone off the National. Used to watch it with my dad years ago. I think the maybe lost three in a race. It's just not right, so many horses and the jumps are barmy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MM Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 Half the problem in this country is that people are not interested in keeping tradition. The Grand National is one of them. Do you think the hunting ban is ok as well? Hunting foxes with hounds? Is that not cruel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worthy130 Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 Gamekeepers do provide good countryside management. But we also shoot/trap anything we don't want on our shoots. We kill things for no other reason but to protect our Birds. when was the last time you saw a jockey lamping a dog that is worrying his horse?? We give alot, but i bet we take alot more!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sussexboy Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 The Grand National is a tough race, that is the reason it is held. If it was made easier then it would not be the Grand National. A race called the Mediocre National would not have the same appeal. As it is such a tough race, and all the trainers know the score, why are people not castigating the trainers for entering horses that are not fit enough to complete such a test of stamina? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ack-ack Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 Do the fences really have to be that high? The distance its self over jumps makes it a real endurance challenge. There will still be deaths though, it goes with the territory. I've been to point to point meets were three horses have had to be destroyed. Not nice but it reminds you of how dangerous the sport is at all levels. The jockeys must have balls of steel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pheasant Feeder Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 I am involved with horses on a daily basis but not race horses. Horse racing is a vital part of the rural economy as previously stated, granted it does little in terms of direct enviromental improvements but racing does provide support through the horse race betting levy board to rare breeds such as the shire, clydesdale and suffolk punch. Breeds of horses on which this country was built for years and who are now at risk on the rare breeds register. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 Very immotive and subjective topic this... lets start with the facts.... Horses have evolved to run and jump thats why they have four long legs, Hooves and muscular backs. They have been domesticated by man since before Adam was a boy, gone to war and tilled the land, before Oil they were the only form of transport. All race horse trainers and owners love their animals, they would soon be weeded out by the JC and HRB if they were suspected of ill treatment or otherwise. They have been selectively bred for over 300 years to race and jump. A fit and properly schooled race horse is more than capable of successfully completing a race in which it is entered without any great risk of mortality. The figures quoted by the Horse Welfare board into fatalities are utter tosh. Hunting, National Hunt racing and Point to Point racing are all connected and supports a massive economy in this country. many of the Landowners and farmers who give us access and liberty on their land support this industry in one way or the other. Hunting, Shooting, Fishing are all inextricably linked Last year over 100,000 dogs were abandoned in the UK at least 50 % were destroyed...lets ban people from keeping dogs. last year over 1000 people were killed in motor accidents in the UK ..lets ban cars. Jumps fences have not got bigger year after year. quite the opposite, Hurdles have been made safer, Chase fences softer and beechers brook has been reduced in height. Most national hunt ground are watered to ensure hard, dangerous and false ground is eliminated. How can you support a sporting past time that shoots over 10 million various birds each year, many of which may never pose a threat to food stuffs in their lifetime and yet be critical of national Hunt racing. Im afraid unless you are a true countryman its difficult to balance the two but before anyone starts taking the moral high ground I find it a bit Hypocritical to shoot wildlife even in the name of pest control and yet be intollerant of National Hunt racing. Kandelin EW. 7pm Towcester tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian750 Posted April 12, 2011 Report Share Posted April 12, 2011 Well said Mike, oh and thanks for the tip! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashman Posted April 12, 2011 Report Share Posted April 12, 2011 Ginger McCain was quoted yesterday as saying lowering the fences at Aintree had made the course more dangerous. Why - the horses go faster, thereby leading to increased injuries when the worst happens. For those with short memories, McCain trained a fairly famous National winner... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted April 12, 2011 Report Share Posted April 12, 2011 For those with short memories, McCain trained a fairly famous National winner... His father 'invented' the oven chip too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libs Posted April 12, 2011 Report Share Posted April 12, 2011 http://www.horsedeathwatch.com/ KW "And average of 676 race horses are raced" Was what was posted, that site claims 676 dead in 1492 days, just over 4 years making an avg. of 169 per year. Although posting a link to an 'anti' to back up an argument seems a tad weird, I certainly wouldn't cite PETA on here to bolster a discussion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted April 12, 2011 Report Share Posted April 12, 2011 What a wonderful post by Fisherman Mike. Having kept and ridden horses for 60 years I am of the opinion that most horses enjoy jumping and being animals of flight running is second nature to them. There is nothing cruel in having to shoot a horse because it has an injury. Cruelty would be trying to treat the injury or dithering around while the horse suffers. I'm afraid it's a fact of life that horses legs don't mend and therefore if broken the only option is to shoot the animal. Let us not confuse cruelty with accidental injury. Many animals that "work" for man are injured every year and put down, be they horses or dogs. That's the name of the game and a fact of life, should we stop breeding and using animals for work and pleasure because some are injured and need to be shot ?, I think not. It is regrettable that such accidents happen and we should strive to reduce the risk but certainly, not by any stretch of the imagination, can shooting an injured animal be termed as cruel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted April 12, 2011 Report Share Posted April 12, 2011 "And average of 676 race horses are raced" Was what was posted, that site claims 676 dead in 1492 days, just over 4 years making an avg. of 169 per year. Although posting a link to an 'anti' to back up an argument seems a tad weird, I certainly wouldn't cite PETA on here to bolster a discussion! you asked deputy dog where he got his figures from, the site I posted said this IE About 38 per cent die on racecourses, which matched deputy dogs figures, so as they say dont shoot the messenger if the message does not suit.OK? KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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