njc110381 Posted April 16, 2011 Report Share Posted April 16, 2011 I wouldn't be too concerned about a mod to go on a rimfire. You can get plastic ones can't you, the pressure isn't great. I'm not having it that standard velocity rounds were quieter than subs though. It doesn't matter how good the mod is, if the bullet isn't subsonic then it's going to make a crack no matter how good the mod is! I can only assume that the rounds were subsonic (whether labelled as such or not), that's the only way they could be quieter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellebarto Posted April 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2011 Lol. I'll have to prove it then when I next see him Tuesday! I checked my facts carefully! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted April 16, 2011 Report Share Posted April 16, 2011 Lol. I'll have to prove it then when I next see him Tuesday! I checked my facts carefully! You will prove yourself wrong unless the bullets are subsonic when they leave the moderator. Just take my word for it, it's not possible to moderate a sonic bullet! You can moderate the powder boom but not the sonic crack. If this fella has developed a mod to subdue the crack of a sonic bullet he needs to patent it quickly and talk to the major international arms makers. I bet you a quid they'd pay millions for technology like that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted April 16, 2011 Report Share Posted April 16, 2011 Lol. I'll have to prove it then when I next see him Tuesday! I checked my facts carefully! As per my previous posts, this was my issue, you cannot stop the sonic boom on a round with a mod, and that makes a LOT of noise, so as I said, I just don't buy any mod making a standard (supersonic) round quieter than a subsonic with a Wildcat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted April 16, 2011 Report Share Posted April 16, 2011 Standard velocity is Supersonic, I have NEVER heard of any mod that can bring down a supersonic round quieter than a sub sonic round, and HALF the noise of your moderator? Sorry but I don't buy it! Apart from the higher pressure just how did he manage to stop the sonic boom!? Lol. I'll have to prove it then when I next see him Tuesday! I checked my facts carefully! As per my previous posts, this was my issue, you cannot stop the sonic boom on a round with a mod, and that makes a LOT of noise, so as I said, I just don't buy any mod making a standard (supersonic) round quieter than a subsonic with a Wildcat! Someone has created a new law of Physics if you can do this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted April 16, 2011 Report Share Posted April 16, 2011 Someone has created a new law of Physics if you can do this! I'll eat my stalking jacket if it's true, and I led in Fox p*** last night! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catweazle Posted April 16, 2011 Report Share Posted April 16, 2011 Let's not be too hasty, for all we know the old tinkerer may have ported the barrel inside his home made moderator and slowed the CCI ammo to subsonic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy H Posted April 16, 2011 Report Share Posted April 16, 2011 A 22 long sub develops less than 100 psi peak pressure in a moderator but when you go bigger than 22 hornet it jumps into the 1000's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted April 16, 2011 Report Share Posted April 16, 2011 Because most centrefires are still burning powder as the bullet leaves the muzzle. Rimfires are usually well spent by about 14". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
activeviii Posted April 18, 2011 Report Share Posted April 18, 2011 NJC..... YOU STINK. an so does my blumming truck :sick: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catweazle Posted April 18, 2011 Report Share Posted April 18, 2011 NJC..... YOU STINK. an so does my blumming truck :sick: Someone been on the pickled eggs ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellebarto Posted April 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2011 I've been reporting your comments back to the old guy who made this all week!! He's steaming with you all..... I wont pretend to understand the logistics but I'm sure of the ammo used and of the mod I had and his homemade mod. Preparing to record sounds and take pics tomorrow night! Just so I'm clear are we saying that a standard .22 round travels at supersonic speed and a subsonic round by its own description travels at subsonic speeds? If thats the case I dont understand what a .17HMR is. I know that goes supersonic because of the boom and the fact a mod does little to disguise it. I know that a standard round goes through my mod in an indoor range with a subdued crack but nothing like the HMR. I assume that a mod cant take velocity off the bullet to the standard round is travelling at subsonic speeds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newsportshooter Posted April 18, 2011 Report Share Posted April 18, 2011 (edited) I've been reporting your comments back to the old guy who made this all week!! He's steaming with you all..... I wont pretend to understand the logistics but I'm sure of the ammo used and of the mod I had and his homemade mod. Preparing to record sounds and take pics tomorrow night! Just so I'm clear are we saying that a standard .22 round travels at supersonic speed and a subsonic round by its own description travels at subsonic speeds? If thats the case I dont understand what a .17HMR is. I know that goes supersonic because of the boom and the fact a mod does little to disguise it. I know that a standard round goes through my mod in an indoor range with a subdued crack but nothing like the HMR. I assume that a mod cant take velocity off the bullet to the standard round is travelling at subsonic speeds? Mate A standard .22lr round travels at a supersonic speed around 1150fps (from memory) but range from 1100 - 1400 fps all of which are Supersonic speeds. Subsonics travel at sub 1050 fps and hence they do not break the sound barrier and hence do not produce a loud crack as they dont reach the sound barrier speed. Standard = Supersonic Subsonic = as he name suggests are Subsonic .17HMR is a completely different round based on the .22 WMR (.22 mag) round with the .22 WMR rimfire case necked down to accept a .17 bullet invented by Hornady and hence they are called .17 Hornday Magnum Rimfire. Edited April 18, 2011 by Newsportshooter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catweazle Posted April 18, 2011 Report Share Posted April 18, 2011 I don't use the CCI Standard Velocity, but a quick google suggests 1070fps, which is borderline subsonic. So if his rifle is shooting them subsonic, and his moderator is reasonable ( remember the Wildcat it was compared to is not a very quiet moderator anyway ) then Ellebarto could be watching people eat humble pie soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catweazle Posted April 18, 2011 Report Share Posted April 18, 2011 Forgot to add a link; http://www.cci-ammunition.com/products/detail.aspx?use=5&loadNo=0032 It actually states that the CCI Standard Velocity is a subsonic round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellebarto Posted April 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2011 Ah that might explain it then! Have to take a brick of mini mag as well then for another test! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadioles Posted April 18, 2011 Report Share Posted April 18, 2011 There is no way in a million years that a bullet which reaches supersonic speeds will be quieter than one which is subsonic and I don't care what moderator you use. Fifty quid says that both guns were firing subsonic ammo. To make a moderator for subs is easy and there is very little difference in "real" sound between the cheapest and the most expensive when used with .22lr subs. As someone else said, there is a loud thump when the round hits the rabbit and that can be, unavoidably, louder than the noise of the gun. I do wish people would stop saying that the click of the firing pin is louder than the gun firing, a well moderated .22 firing subs is extremely quiet but lets not exagerate. You can compare the effectiveness of a moderator between supersonic and subsonic ammo by firing into soft earth a couple of yards away. Try firing a .17 HMR into a nearby (2 yards) soft earth bank and compare it with the sound of a .22 fired in the same way. The HMR is louder but not hugely so as the bullet has not had the distance in flight which is needed to build up the pressure wave as it goes supersonic. A moderator designed for .17HMR (such as DM80 with .17 hole through it) is significantly quieter than the same gun fitted with a typical .22 moderator such as a SAK, but only from the point of view of the muzzle blast. Firing into soft earth is the best way to compare moderators used with supersonic ammo as it gives you a chance to hear that part of the bang that the moderator moderates without being influenced (deafened) by the supersonic bit. You cannot do anything at all to surpress or reduce the sonic crack - end of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 I'll eat my stalking jacket if it's true, and I led in Fox p*** last night! Ere - whats that stalking jacket taste loike my 'ansome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bewsher500 Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 I do wish people would stop saying that the click of the firing pin is louder than the gun firing, a well moderated .22 firing subs is extremely quiet but lets not exagerate. mine is I once tested some subsonic ammo for urban fox control. four shots one after the other. all subsonic .22LR Eley, RWS, Winchester, CCI CB Long (slower still 700 vs 1000f/s) bolt action Sako with a PES overbarrel moderator (moderator is overkill for a RF but as it sits on 4 calibres and seriously quietens even the WMR and HMR compared to SAK, ASE etc) I promise you, if I fired the CB long straight up in the air (not that I would but there would be no audible strike to confuse) you would hear the firing pin and little more than a "puff". firing pin is by far louder than the "muzzle blast". saying that the pin is a noisy ******! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellebarto Posted April 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 Been back to the range tonight an 100% confirmed what I said originally. Got pictures and sounds so if I can work out how will post em all in the morning! His moderator seemed to have fibre inside it but when u said you lot had poured scorn on his mod he got very protective of it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 (edited) Been back to the range tonight an 100% confirmed what I said originally. Got pictures and sounds so if I can work out how will post em all in the morning! His moderator seemed to have fibre inside it but when u said you lot had poured scorn on his mod he got very protective of it! ANY moderator with acoustic wadding will have a (Very) limited life with .22lr and be a joke with HMR/WMR. I had a HOGG on my HMR for about 10-12 rounds, it was certainly quiet, but the wadding blew apart, useless. If your man has made a good .22lr mod them all credit to him, but as so many have said there is simply NO WAY he can make a supersonic round quieter than a subsonic round. If he has managed to take the edge off a sub (well, frankly quite a few mods are pretty good at that) then good on him! Edited April 20, 2011 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadioles Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 I promise you, if I fired the CB long straight up in the air (not that I would but there would be no audible strike to confuse) you would hear the firing pin and little more than a "puff". firing pin is by far louder than the "muzzle blast". saying that the pin is a noisy ******! Ok... call it a draw.... I must admit that the click can sound a bit more pronounced than the puff when you point up into the air, and just like you, I have not tried it either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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