Would 28 gram cartridges kill pigeons

[kitchrat]

In order to get a kill, we necessarily must hit vital organs! It is often said an average of 3 to 6 pellets is necessary.

 

At the limit of normal ranges the pattern will fail before the shot penatration.

 

Pluck a pigeon and you will see just how small a target the bird represents.

 

On a small target a more dense pattern higher pellet count will increase the chance of hitting a vital.

 

On this basis No.6 shot, No.7 and even 7.5 has a greater chance of hitting a vital at sensible ranges.

 

I apply this to pigeons, partridge but not pheasants which are a larger target.

 

On the subject of Antimony in lead shot, it is said a softer shot deforms on impact and therefore has more "shock" leathality.

 

I'm not convinced because:-

 

a) You need penatration to hit a vital

b) You need a good pattern

c) Soft shot deforms in the barrel impacting on a) and b) above.

d) Soft shot deforms more so in fibre cartridges & if your not using fibre then you should be

 

Additional factors:

 

 

1. Don’t shoot at extreme range

2. Don’t shoot beyond your capacity to hit

3. Practice on clays

4. Remember, the art of decoying is to bring your birds to you so that you can kill those you shoot at whatever your catrridge or shot size

5. Remember, these are living creatures that deserve humane dispatch.

 

Fully agree!

This post has wandered a bit from the original questions as to whether 1oz loads are enough to cleanly kill a pigeon. Of course it is, if you can get the 3-6 pellets into the bird, that should do the trick.

No one has discussed chokes, a skeet choke at longer ranges with light loads would result in less pellets hitting the target.

"Killing range" is another question, well decoyed birds can be nailed with almost anything. Once, many years ago, we had pigeons "on a string" and ran out out of ammo. A chap was sent out to get more but could only get No 9 shot. At 25-30 yards, there was no noticeable difference, dead birds.

What concerns me is this "Macho" trend of " I was knocking them down at 60-80 yards", as perpetuated sometimes by the internet videos. At this range, Mr G Digweed, with his full/extra full chokes can do the business but simple physics says that a 1/4 choke, 30 gram No 6 shot (which some people post as their ammo and range of choice), only the odd pellet or two will hit the bird, even if it's in the centre of the pattern.

If you are lucky and hit a vital spot, it's "great shot", if the bird flies away "shame, you missed it" even though it's probably wounded.

Over optimistic opinions of your own ability is the saddest aspect of our sport, also true at driven pheasant shoots.

[figgy]

Funny how. 410 can kill out to a decent range with a small load but people still question whether a 28g will kill a pigeon. It will kill almost any living creature dependent on range.

[Wingman]

How enlightening, so I don't actually need those 60 gram BB cartridges for pigeons after all!

[Walker570]

Killed my share of pigeons and crows with 19grms out of my Mossy 410 ...so yes. Up to you to put them in the pattern.

[figgy]

How enlightening, so I don't actually need those 60 gram BB cartridges for pigeons after all!

Not if youve got some 28g solid slug, patterns a bit thin though but good retained energy for those long shots.

[Wingman]

Not if youve got some 28g solid slug, patterns a bit thin though but good retained energy for those long shots.

Thanks figgy, I usually reserved those for clearing mice in the kitchen will try them on pigeon this week!

[Towngun]

On the subject of the Eley statement via Guns on Pegs:

 

"Our lead shot for game cartridge contains 2% Antimony. This hardens the shot slightly helping reduce deformation during firing and as it travels down the barrel but means it is still malleable and will deform on impact thereby delivering very effective knockdown performance on game. Higher levels of Antimony, such as 5% used in premium clay cartridges, are ideal for breaking clays but harden the shot too much making it generally unsuitable for game shooting."

 

And yet The new Eley Zeneth:

 

Copper is electroplated to the lead to reduce pellet deformation as the shot goes down the barrel and through the choke of the gun. This ensures it maintains a superior pattern during flight, with more shot on target. Copper plated shot increases the impact power of the shot on the quarry.

 

And so would this latter statement contradict the former?

[Towngun]

Small shot gives a fuller pattern in all chokes.

[Stonepark]

On the subject of the Eley statement via Guns on Pegs:

 

"Our lead shot for game cartridge contains 2% Antimony. This hardens the shot slightly helping reduce deformation during firing and as it travels down the barrel but means it is still malleable and will deform on impact thereby delivering very effective knockdown performance on game. Higher levels of Antimony, such as 5% used in premium clay cartridges, are ideal for breaking clays but harden the shot too much making it generally unsuitable for game shooting."

 

And yet The new Eley Zeneth:

 

Copper is electroplated to the lead to reduce pellet deformation as the shot goes down the barrel and through the choke of the gun. This ensures it maintains a superior pattern during flight, with more shot on target. Copper plated shot increases the impact power of the shot on the quarry.

 

And so would this latter statement contradict the former?

 

Yes, salesmen to the core.....

 

With bird shot, all the shot should have enough antimony to be harder than the maximum cartridge pressure in order to resist deformation on firing and therefore keep good patterns. At shotgun pellet energies, the knockdown theory is a straw argument.

 

For standard pressure 12 bore cartridges, this means at least 3% antimony.

[Dangerous Brian]

On the subject of the Eley statement via Guns on Pegs:

 

"Our lead shot for game cartridge contains 2% Antimony. This hardens the shot slightly helping reduce deformation during firing and as it travels down the barrel but means it is still malleable and will deform on impact thereby delivering very effective knockdown performance on game. Higher levels of Antimony, such as 5% used in premium clay cartridges, are ideal for breaking clays but harden the shot too much making it generally unsuitable for game shooting."

 

And yet The new Eley Zeneth:

 

Copper is electroplated to the lead to reduce pellet deformation as the shot goes down the barrel and through the choke of the gun. This ensures it maintains a superior pattern during flight, with more shot on target. Copper plated shot increases the impact power of the shot on the quarry.

 

And so would this latter statement contradict the former?

The antimony is mixed throughout the lead whilst the copper is plated onto the pellet. With plated shot, the copper protects (to a point) the shot from being rubbed along the barrel or sticking to other pellets. As far as I know, the plating shouldn't make much difference to the hardness of the pellet so you can get (supposedly) the best of both worlds as long as you are prepared to pay for it.

Edited September 1, 2017 by Dangerous Brian

[mossy835]

killed many over the years with them out to 40 yards .