BLACK-GUN Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 (edited) hello, i am a cpsa registered wheelchair shooter and the cpsa have put me in AA class for sporting so i have to compete with the top able body shooters which i think is wrong, the cpsa have told me i have to shoot 300 registered targets before they can re class me, ok so now is the problem of doing this. 1/ the cpsa have me reg disabled shooter but they have no disabled classes. 2/ i cant get in most cages to shoot these 300 reg targets as they are to small and the cpsa sporting rule book no/7 says i must only shoot from a cage also in the rule book it says they recommend shooting cages to be 1200x1200 which would be fine to shoot from my wheelchair, but the cpsa say it is only a recommended rule, and not a rule even though it is in the rule book no/7 i always thought a rule book was for RULES. 3/ the other problem i have with the cpsa is shooting from a platform which is getting the norm at most shoots i cant get up on them. also now the dress rule in the cpsa general rule book no/5 18.3 states no military or camouflaged wear or camouflage paint to be banned from cpsa championships and events but guess what my wheelchair is in camouflage so i can use it for all my shooting clays / rabbit/ pigeon/vermin etc also i have been banned from shooting fitasc sporting under health/ safety rules. i pay my membership to the cpsa and are not allowed to shoot registered shoots and they wont change the rules. what do you think. IS THIS DISCRIMINATION OR WHAT thanks joe. Edited June 16, 2011 by BLACK-GUN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulos Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 To be put in AA class you must have shot a pretty decent score? I think the 300 targets you refer to is only for unclassified shooters in order to gain a classification. As far as I'm aware, there is no minimum you must shoot in order to go down, but you can only go down one at a time. I can't see your camo wheelchair being a problem - it would take a pretty surly referee to have a problem with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian E Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 I think you need to contact the CPSA directly and talk to someone that can address your issues. From my personal point of view - not as a CPSA rep ! So your a disabled shooter in AA class but want to be treated differently and put in another class ? wouldn't that be discrimination in it's self ? you clearly have the ability to shoot to a AA standard Cages I would take up with the ground, then report to the CPSA if needed. Camo paint, it's up to the Referee to warn you then call the jury to see what action if any needs to be applied, I would be amazed and shocked if they stopped you shooting. you may find the following link useful http://www.disabledsg.co.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beretta Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 i have shot with a few guys in chairs in the past and on all occasions the refs have let them shoot from the nearest position possible to the stand if they can not get into it. same with platforms, they have shot from underneath or the side. As others have said, contact CPSA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosd Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 i have shot with a few guys in chairs in the past and on all occasions the refs have let them shoot from the nearest position possible to the stand if they can not get into it. same with platforms, they have shot from underneath or the side. As others have said, contact CPSA I think that may be the case unless you get a busy body who reports the shooting from outside the cage then the CPSA will apply their rule! For a sport which wants to promote itself this doesn't bode well! I would tell the CPSA that you are going to write an article in one of the Gun magazines, they may change their stance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulos Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 I think people need to calm down here. Just call ahead and ask the groundowner what their stance is on shooting outside the cage. If they are happy then there is no problem - if a ref has a problem, just point them in the direction of the gaffer. What precisely do you want the CPSA to do? Make it compulsary for all sporting stands to be DDA compliant? That would knock most shoots on the head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huffhuff Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 (edited) Here is a list of various sites and acts. Not many of them specifically clay pigeon oriented, but some are shooting specific (in general). you might be able to talk with them for advice etc.. Equality Act (this replaced the DDA - Disability Discrimination Act) - http://www.equalities.gov.uk/equality_act_2010.aspx CPSA refer to the DDA (albeit on the Racial Equality page) - http://www.cpsa.co.uk/racial-equality This is off the Sport England site - http://www.sportengland.org/search.aspx?query=dda This is 'WheelPower' - http://www.wheelpower.org.uk/WPower/ Wheel power and shooting in particular - http://www.wheelpower.org.uk/WPower/index.cfm/what-we-do/our-sports-associations/shooting/ (although seems to be fixed target) Disability Target Shooting - http://www.dtsgb.org.uk/ The Disabled Shooters Group - Clay Specific - http://www.disabledsg.co.uk/homepage.htm This is from Internation Shooting Sports Council - http://www.issf-sports.org/documents/rules/2009/english/pdf/ISSFRuleBook2009-en-3rd.pdf But I also agree with Ian, you can't have it both ways. If you are an AA class shot - then you should shoot the same as able bodied guns with no allowances (above and beyond DDA, common courtesy, human rights blah blah blah) Good luck - you'd think given how well we did in the shooting categories in Beijing, they would be promoting and making it easier for the lesser able-bodied to take up (or simply continue) any avenue of shooting! Ben Edited June 16, 2011 by huffhuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosd Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 I think people need to calm down here. Just call ahead and ask the groundowner what their stance is on shooting outside the cage. If they are happy then there is no problem - if a ref has a problem, just point them in the direction of the gaffer. What precisely do you want the CPSA to do? Make it compulsary for all sporting stands to be DDA compliant? That would knock most shoots on the head. Not at all, but a disabled shooter should be allowed to shoot from the closest position to the cage if the cage is too small. That's not too much to ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 Go bandit, shoot 300 targets like Chard and then hoover up the prizes in "C" Class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chard Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 Go bandit, shoot 300 targets like Chard and then hoover up the prizes in "C" Class. Er - don't you mean El Magnifico B Class? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 Nope, I meant C Class Yummy bait, nom nom nom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nimms Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 The way I read was that he was AA before becoming confined to a wheelchair and now they won't allow him to shoot to get reclassified if necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 get the sun involved they'd love this one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Potter Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 (edited) To be put in AA class you must have shot a pretty decent score? I think the 300 targets you refer to is only for unclassified shooters in order to gain a classification. As far as I'm aware, there is no minimum you must shoot in order to go down, but you can only go down one at a time. I can't see your camo wheelchair being a problem - it would take a pretty surly referee to have a problem with that. Student, I haven't checked on the CPSA website but I'm absolutely certain the OP is correct, there is no minimum number of targets required to be moved up a class and you can jump straight from C to AA but to be re-classified downwards you must shoot a minimum of 300 targets and, no matter how badly you shoot, you can only be demoted one class i.e. A to B even if you shoot a C class average. Mr Potter Edited June 16, 2011 by Mr Potter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK-GUN Posted June 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 I think you need to contact the CPSA directly and talk to someone that can address your issues. From my personal point of view - not as a CPSA rep ! So your a disabled shooter in AA class but want to be treated differently and put in another class ? wouldn't that be discrimination in it's self ? you clearly have the ability to shoot to a AA standard Cages I would take up with the ground, then report to the CPSA if needed. Camo paint, it's up to the Referee to warn you then call the jury to see what action if any needs to be applied, I would be amazed and shocked if they stopped you shooting. you may find the following link useful http://www.disabledsg.co.uk i think you have not read my post, the cpsa say i need to shoot registered events for them to reclass me, but as i cannot get into the cages if they are to small i cannot shoot the event. this is the cpsa sporting rules book no/7 all competitors must be positioned to shoot from the enclosure. i dont want to be treated differently, i just want to shoot from the cages but cant because some are too small. you tell me how and i will do it. i have had this problem with the cpsa before, when i did on one stand shoot from outside the cage then someone contacted the cpsa and they came down on me like a ton of bricks, the then cpsa tec man m williams said the rules say i must shoot from an enclosure but they would get around sometime, but dont hold your breath to look at the rules to see if they need changing but as now i must not shoot outside the cage. joe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaserF3 Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 The problem is that the CPSA do not own any shooting grounds, therefore it's up to the ground owners to make stands 'chair friendly. If they do not want to do this there's not a lot the CPSA can do about it. A lot of grounds out there want nothing to do with registered shoots at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
100milesaway Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 I'm pretty sure that there used to be a shooting cage manufacturer, that used to make a cage with special quick adjustable fronts which could be lowered to assist a wheelchair user, from Auntie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magman Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 Some ground cages can be the same for youngsters In my mind they should be open at the front and you back into them , safer all round Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK-GUN Posted June 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 I'm pretty sure that there used to be a shooting cage manufacturer, that used to make a cage with special quick adjustable fronts which could be lowered to assist a wheelchair user, from Auntie. hi, it is not the front bar that is the problem it is the width. if they where made the same width as the compact sporting cages 1200x1200 as the cpsa rules state there would be no problem. but there is only a recommended rule for english sporting in the cpsa rule book, how can the cpsa recommended a rule, i always thought a rule was a rule. all that needs to be done is for registered cpsa grounds to make the stand a little wider. joe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK-GUN Posted June 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 Some ground cages can be the same for youngsters In my mind they should be open at the front and you back into them , safer all round thats a good idea magman and full marks to you, but we still have the problem regarding the width and also banks of earth in front of the cages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
100milesaway Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 hi, it is not the front bar that is the problem it is the width. if they where made the same width as the compact sporting cages 1200x1200 as the cpsa rules state there would be no problem. but there is only a recommended rule for english sporting in the cpsa rule book, how can the cpsa recommended a rule, i always thought a rule was a rule. all that needs to be done is for registered cpsa grounds to make the stand a little wider. joe. Hi Blackgun, the cages i saw advertised were specifically sold as wheelchair friendly so must have been wide enough, i think the idea was a one size fits all theme. from Auntie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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