cocker3 Posted August 7, 2011 Report Share Posted August 7, 2011 (edited) well where do i start last year while out lamping with verminator69 on one of my shoots we came across a local lad who has been netting the river through my shoot for sea trout(poaching ) .we chased him across a stubble field in the dark in my landy and he jumped into a wood a would not come out .we found him push bike and were going to drive over it in the landy (we never saw it cause it was dark ) but the farmer didnt want any hassle which i can under stand he has to live there after all . now the water bailifs have been trying to catch him all year with no luck and he has been very abusive with people who live on the farm when they have approached him . well on saturday i was haveing a look round the shoot and who cycles up the track behind me well he **** a brick when he realised it was me (i have changed my car)and started to try and talk to me asking if i had shot any roe .i said i had shot every roe buck i had seen (not true btw )the cheaky **** said would i leave him a couple to run his lurcher on when the wheat gets cut. i told him to **** off and i would shoot the dog if i seen it running on roe he said he had been coming here for years and who the **** was i to tell him not to come here when i told him he was poaching he said so what what could we do about it after asking about i have found out who he is and will be haveing a chat with the local wildlife officer (the farmer now wants this sorted outand has told me the dog is to get shot if its off a lead )has any one else had this sort of problem this boy looks like a real junckie and is all mouth by all accounts.where do i stand with shooting the dog its a shame as its not the dogs fault. i know i have to be carefull with him as i have rifles with me and it would be easy for him to say i pointed it at him or worse i plan to have a chat with the local police to convey my concerns about this I JUST COULDNT GET OVER WHAT A COCKY CHEEKY **** HE WAS Edited August 7, 2011 by cocker3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilam Posted August 7, 2011 Report Share Posted August 7, 2011 where do i stand with shooting the dog its a shame as its not the dogs fault. i know i have to be carefull with him as i have rifles with me and it would be easy for him to say i pointed it at him or worse i plan to have a chat with the local police to convey my concerns about this The dog is doing nothing wrong, if you shoot the dog he will get another one. Dont blame the dog for what the owner is doing wrong. Were you going to shoot the trout/salmon net too?? Shoot them both with a camera and give evidence to the police...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ack-ack Posted August 7, 2011 Report Share Posted August 7, 2011 Shooting his dog!!! How is that going to improve the situation?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cocker3 Posted August 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2011 The dog is doing nothing wrong, if you shoot the dog he will get another one. Dont blame the dog for what the owner is doing wrong. Were you going to shoot the trout/salmon net too?? Shoot them both with a camera and give evidence to the police...... as i stated i know its not the dogs faultit been trained to do it tho and yeh the dog is doing wrong its not him running across afield and killing the roe is it yeh he may get a new dog but a bullit costs me £1 how much will a new dog cost as for the nets we lift them when we find them and we cut the legs off his waders (he leaves them hanging in a tree nere to where his nets are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highseas Posted August 7, 2011 Report Share Posted August 7, 2011 is this the forth estry by any chance? the amount of netters on their is breathtakeing i could name a few but that would lose me half the beating team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cocker3 Posted August 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2011 is this the forth estry by any chance? the amount of netters on their is breathtakeing i could name a few but that would lose me half the beating team yeh highseas it is the river tyne that runs into the forth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huntsman Posted August 7, 2011 Report Share Posted August 7, 2011 Well heres my tuppence worth 1. Its not your land so why interfere 2. The lad is poaching so the landowner must report it to the police 3 you have shooting rights,or permission to shoot on the land, so just shoot but NOT any dogs let the farmer/ Landowner do that if HE wants to Try and stay out of trouble, as you can quickly become involved in something, that does not concern you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cocker3 Posted August 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2011 Shooting his dog!!! How is that going to improve the situation?? it probably wont improve it but this is what the farmer has asked me to do as a last resort my self i dont like the thought of doing it but i dont like the thought of a dog running down a roe and killing it less Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cocker3 Posted August 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2011 Well heres my tuppence worth 1. Its not your land so why interfere 2. The lad is poaching so the landowner must report it to the police 3 you have shooting rights,or permission to shoot on the land, so just shoot but NOT any dogs let the farmer/ Landowner do that if HE wants to Try and stay out of trouble, as you can quickly become involved in something, that does not concern you. yup i understand where your coming from the land owner has reported it to the police so have some of the people who live there but they have never been able to catch him god nows how as for shooting the dog i have only been asked to shoot it if i catch him running it on deer but yeh the farmer will probably shoot it if he see,s it first which i do hope he does Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roadkill Posted August 7, 2011 Report Share Posted August 7, 2011 if a farmer asked me to shoot a dog i would tell him to do one . not worth the trouble Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ack-ack Posted August 7, 2011 Report Share Posted August 7, 2011 it probably wont improve it but this is what the farmer has asked me to do as a last resort my self i dont like the thought of doing it but i dont like the thought of a dog running down a roe and killing it less Hobson's choice. Regarding the boy can't you try a bit of reverse psychology on him and get him onside. The farmer can either get stressed chasing the pecker here there and everywhere and get nowhere or give him a bit of casual work and at least know where he is some of the time. He might be a proper nice lad thats had a bad start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingnewport Posted August 7, 2011 Report Share Posted August 7, 2011 just give him a good beating , simples Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cocker3 Posted August 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2011 Hobson's choice. Regarding the boy can't you try a bit of reverse psychology on him and get him onside. The farmer can either get stressed chasing the pecker here there and everywhere and get nowhere or give him a bit of casual work and at least know where he is some of the time. He might be a proper nice lad thats had a bad start. to be honest i dont think this lad has worked a day in his life i have only seen him twice in two years on the shoot but he is there most weeks day or night from what i have been told as for psychology i told him his dog would get shot in the hope he will think twice about turning up again but i dont think it will stop him but i hope it does.as for work i think he would nick anything thats not nailed down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cocker3 Posted August 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2011 just give him a good beating , simples yeh and get arrested for asault and have my guns taken off me dont think so i will leave that to the farmer as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ack-ack Posted August 7, 2011 Report Share Posted August 7, 2011 to be honest i dont think this lad has worked a day in his life i have only seen him twice in two years on the shoot but he is there most weeks day or night from what i have been told as for psychology i told him his dog would get shot in the hope he will think twice about turning up again but i dont think it will stop him but i hope it does. as for work i think he would nick anything thats not nailed down You got nothing to loose, he's nicking from you anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferret Master Posted August 7, 2011 Report Share Posted August 7, 2011 Correct me if I am wrong but I was under the understanding that you can only shoot a dog for worrying livestock and not wildlife? FM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cocker3 Posted August 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2011 Correct me if I am wrong but I was under the understanding that you can only shoot a dog for worrying livestock and not wildlife? FM that why i asked where we stand with shooting it could anyone else confirm this is the case thanks ferretmaster for the info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ME Posted August 7, 2011 Report Share Posted August 7, 2011 that why i asked where we stand with shooting it could anyone else confirm this is the case thanks ferretmaster for the info Surely you should have known that already? :blink: By the way, on my permission they have a problem with a guy running a snow tiger, can anyone tell me if I am OK to give it and the bloke both barrels? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted August 7, 2011 Report Share Posted August 7, 2011 that why i asked where we stand with shooting it could anyone else confirm this is the case thanks ferretmaster for the info I believe FM is correct Deer are not livestock but check with BASC etc, and get more creative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted August 8, 2011 Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 I believe FM is correct Deer are not livestock but check with BASC etc, and get more creative. Deer could be considered livestock if they are being shot for the financial gain of the estate or farm but don't get involved in that discussion, its not a good argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpha Mule Posted August 8, 2011 Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 Not sure of the legalities of doing the dog, but to take a step sideways here: Couldn't you make it uncomfortable for the bloke to be on this bit of land? I'm thinking of those mine alarms (tripwires connected to blank shotgun cartridges), electric fence wire strung up on his paths (with regard to the deer of course) and suchlike. Maybe spending a couple of nights (days) following him around and destroying/removing ALL of his kit. Rather than you getting involved with any fistycuffs, doesn't the farmer have some helpfull strapping young lads who aren't shy about having a 'little chat' with the bloke? Take a mobile phone with you and call the plod every time he sets foot on the land. They will get peed off with you calling and go nick him just to get some peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted August 8, 2011 Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 As has been said before, its nothing to do with you. Give the Landowner and Police all the help you can with descriptions, dates, places, photographs, etc., but its their concern and job, not yours. As regards shooting his dog, that is about as low as you can get and would probably land you in as much trouble as if you gave him a good hiding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted August 8, 2011 Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 For what they are worth here are my thoughts on the matter which aren't likely to help much and no doubt are what you might be hoping to hear: It seems to me that the only option open to you is to get some photographic or video evidence of him poaching and allow the police and the courts to deal with it. If it is reported to the police they are quite likely going to ask for some sort of evidence otherwise it is his word against yours. All he has to do (Concerning his dog running game) is to say that he was out walking his dog on a lead (Nothing illegal about that) and it managed to somehow slip it's lead - You need to prove that he was out with his dog intentionately in the pursuit of game! Shooting the dog could have some serious reprocussions! OK you say that a bullet only costs you a pound and it would cost him a lot more to replace the dog, fair enough but that isn't the point - If this went to court you might well be asked to prove that the dog was worrying stock at the time, and if you couldn't you could be in serious trouble and risk losing your FAC and guns. To add to that even if you were to shoot the dog and get the farmer to back you up for doing so by saying that he saw it worrying his stock have you thought about the possible reprocussions to the farmer, his land and his machinery, and what if this little scroat were to say that you threatened to shoot him as well - The sort of thing that a little ****like this would quite likely claim happened - That would lead to a strong likelyhood of you losing your certificate and guns at the very least! There has been another option suggested - Give him a good slapping! You know only too well the problems with that and the quite likely results if you were to and he complained to the police - Bye bye FAC and guns! Sure, if you can find his nets or waders by all means destroy them and leave the bits where he is sure to find them as a warning. As for his bike, I'm sure that a car or tractor wheel driving over it would render it unridable (Don't forget to run over the frame and forks as well as the wheels). It might make you feel better and give you a feeling of satisfaction, and it might make him think twice before returning, but by the sounds of it a little **** like this would most likely commit a few more "offences" just to fund the replacement. As for just shooting the dog just to stop him running it on your shoot, well that is something that I am not in favour of myself unless it is stock worrying and not an action that I would want to take myself - Think about it, would it really make you feel any better about the situation! You really have a difficult situation on your hands here, some might say a "no win situation" and it seems that the "legal route" is the only safe option open to you unless you are prepared to take your chances in court mate! I am sure that we can all understand and sympathise with you and your frustration here but there is unfortunately a lot of risks involved if you take the law into your own hands! Ask yourself "Are the risks of how much you have to loose worth it with everything that you possibly have to loose"? I'm not faulting you on your feelings about this situation and the actions you would like to take, I believe that I (And many others) would feel the same if we found ourselves in this situation, I'm just looking at it from an outsiders point of view and hope that you can find a way to eliminate the "problem" without putting yourself in jeprardy or finding yourself in trouble with the law yourself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie10 Posted August 8, 2011 Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 it probably wont improve it but this is what the farmer has asked me to do as a last resort my self i dont like the thought of doing it but i dont like the thought of a dog running down a roe and killing it less Do you also have a probelm with Cheetahs catching gazelle? It's illegal now but it's been done for hundreds of years, at least the deer has a chance to escape rather than being shot, if you say it's more humane, I have shot all the types of deer in the UK except Sika and am fully of how deer die from being shot and it's not a quick death. Shoot the dog and go to the courts, lose any chance of getting your licence back. If you consider doing it you are no better than the person poaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted August 8, 2011 Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 Sorry guys but i'm surprised by how many would do nothing. People like this lad become the people they are, partly because no one gives a ****. What he is doing is illegal, apart from that, the worst poaching crime IMHO is running deer with dogs. I would simply get the wildlife officer on side and ask him how best to pick this guy up in the act. He will have a pattern, particularly if he's a netter. It will cost you some time in planning and waiting but if you work with the wildlife officer he will arrest the guy and 10 to 1 he will have previous and therefore be out of your hair for a while. If he's a druggie he's either a petty thief, burglar or you would have a hell of a lot more to shoot if he was on HMP The chances are the police could also involve the RSPCA and get him banned from owning a dog to prevent the poaching of deer. After all, although the dog doesnt know it, its a tool of his purpose. If all this fails, then you can tell the farmer you have done all thats possible and leave it up to him. In my view condoning crime is not an option - a criminal is a criminal and those who would do nothing deserve to live with criminals, after all, thats what they are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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