best center fire caliber for rabbits

[Matt Gould]

Hi guys im looking into getting a centerfire mainly for rabbits but also for a few foxes. i allready shoot a .17hmr what is very good just gets affected buy the wind some nights, so im basicaly looking for a rifle what i can takew out on these windy night. i have allready looked into the .22 hornet but people have told me these are a realoders load which i dont realy want to do. can any one suggest me a round what is not as big as 243 as i shoot on a 240acure shoot wind a couple of surrounding houses but a load what plent of factory loads are avalible. cheers for any help guys

[pigeonstool]

First rabbit I shot with my 22-250 I thought "that's handy ... rabbit stew in a furry bag ...."

Stick to your HMR or a 22LR rimfires ...... for bunnies

[Matt Gould]

I dont eat what i shoot though i do it for vermin control

[kent]

If your not going to re-load it doesn't matter if you get a .22 Hornet, .222 or .223 all of these are at thier best as homeloaded. Factory Hornet rounds can be obtained fairly easily at similar prices to other c/fire. The Hornet is just a lot cheaper to feed when you re-load than all the others and very versitle. As a factory ammo gun for rabbits in c/fire the Hornet still takes some beating and it is still fox capable. .222 , .223 are better choices for a dedicated fox rifle though IMO the Hornet is way the better Rabbit potting gun.

 

 

Might i suggest you ask to go out with someone local with a .223 or the likes and see first hand what they do to Rabbits with std factory Varmint rounds before you make your mind up. OR put up an invite on here for someone to visit your place you should get someone willing easy enough. You might think yeah, i want one or save yourself a lot of disapointment

[pigeonstool]

To be honest - I was a tad 'tongue in cheek' --

I have to live with my neighbours and a rimfire + moderator is the best way to keep them happy.

The 'odd' shot with a centrefire is OK - but if you sit on a hillside/warren and have a 'session' they will think it's Col. Cluster and the whole of the US Cavalry charging down the valley.

[Dekers]

Best in what respect?

 

Hit a bunny with almost any centrefire, anywhere you like, and you have a deceased bunny, it may also end up covering several counties!

 

Some of the .17CF, .22 wildcats, .204 etc may well be very effective, they also come with a silly ammo price tag or require reloading.

 

I have a couple of sites where open terrain, distance and historical shooters cause a problem on the rabbit, they will commonly run on sight 200 yards away.

 

I can see why something else could be required, but fieldcraft and patience also works.

 

Know your site, prepare, hides, patience, wind, etc, etc means I am not considering anything more than the HMR for rabbits at the moment, even though I have taken rabbits with all my cf. I can honestly say I have never specifically taken out a CF to go rabbit shooting.

 

.308 is interesting on the rabbit, shot a few at distances from about 30-180yards with the .308 150g SP, only sideways, never head on. The result has always been a VERY big Hole, but other than that a very intact bunny. I hit a bunny head on with the .223 50g Ballistic tip at around 140-160 yards I think it was, and the result was almost unrecognizable.

[Bowen20]

I shoot quite alot of bunnies anywhere from 50 right to 300yds was the furthest one yet with my howa 1500 .223 with prvi partizan 55 grain soft points and new rangefinders to hand. And to be honest i love it getting sat up shooting them all at different distances with the .223 its a great way to 'practise' for the longer range foxes that just wont come in and if your not too good of a shot then atleast if you only clip the bunny with a .223 its still a dead bunny althow i dont advocate shooting at any live quarry if your not too good a shot or sure of your or your guns capeabilities. so if i were to go for a cf for bunnies alone it would be the .223 purely because you can get very good and very cheap rounds for it the bigger bullet you get the more the costs go up if you get it all from the shop. plus if your going to get a hornet you may as well just go one step further and get a .223 for the little difference in price there would be.

Regards.

[Alycidon]

Hornet would be ideal especially with a moddy.

 

A

[kent]

Ok i wounded a bunny with a head shot from the Hornet last night, removed the whole lower section of the head but it was very much a live bunny when i got to it for the coupe de grace (not a good idea to post the picture)- its possible to wound something with anything, placement is key as always. That said with the LR it would possibly have been a hard runner. Range maybee less than 30yds. Also got three good hares Two text book brain shots and one in the neck non were more than 70 yds away, was out foxing but only saw Badgers so its handy having the opertunity to harvest a few long ears and keep numbers in check. There is no real meat damaged even on the neck shot hare all the front section is just fine.

I was using Factory RWS 46 grn @ 2540 fps

[njc110381]

I think my fear of suggesting the Hornet with factory loads is that they're well known to be quite inaccurate unless the brass is fire formed. I know the CZ has a good reputation for being ok but I've heard some terrible stories about others.

 

I found factory loads varied wildly in my CZ. Remington SP grouped like a shotgun - I've never had any other centrefire group that badly even with factory ammo it didn't really like. With S&B however it was pretty spot on, as good as my HMR at least. I paid £8 for 20 rounds of that.

 

For a Rabbit gun it's hard to say. The .223 will be the easiest to feed but it's too much for bunnies really. I've not tried them, but perhaps some sort of .17 CF would be good? What's ammo availability like for the Fireball? I'd imagine that would be pretty good. :unsure:

[wymberley]

I think my fear of suggesting the Hornet with factory loads is that they're well known to be quite inaccurate unless the brass is fire formed. I know the CZ has a good reputation for being ok but I've heard some terrible stories about others.

 

I found factory loads varied wildly in my CZ. Remington SP grouped like a shotgun - I've never had any other centrefire group that badly even with factory ammo it didn't really like. With S&B however it was pretty spot on, as good as my HMR at least. I paid £8 for 20 rounds of that.

 

For a Rabbit gun it's hard to say. The .223 will be the easiest to feed but it's too much for bunnies really. I've not tried them, but perhaps some sort of .17 CF would be good? What's ammo availability like for the Fireball? I'd imagine that would be pretty good. :unsure:

 

There is a good (as in sensible, comprehensive) review of the 17 Remington on the shootinguk.co.uk website. May well bean option if reloading, as you say, is out.

[kent]

I think my fear of suggesting the Hornet with factory loads is that they're well known to be quite inaccurate unless the brass is fire formed. I know the CZ has a good reputation for being ok but I've heard some terrible stories about others.

 

I found factory loads varied wildly in my CZ. Remington SP grouped like a shotgun - I've never had any other centrefire group that badly even with factory ammo it didn't really like. With S&B however it was pretty spot on, as good as my HMR at least. I paid £8 for 20 rounds of that.

 

For a Rabbit gun it's hard to say. The .223 will be the easiest to feed but it's too much for bunnies really. I've not tried them, but perhaps some sort of .17 CF would be good? What's ammo availability like for the Fireball? I'd imagine that would be pretty good. :unsure:

 

Fireforming is over rated in its improvement in accuraccy in all calibres IMO many longer range bench shooters have moved to full length sizing to shoot groups fast in the most similar wind conditions. The key with the hornet is consenricity, slack chambers mean you wont get consentricity to the bore (I think this is were the theory comes from) but fireforming cant help here as you cannot control the round feeding on the wrong plane. Also poor quality brass, once its crooked its always crooked fire formed or not. If you buy factory based on price your going to struggle unless you just fall lucky but dont expect the next batch to be the same even then. If you want the best chance of buying a Hornet that shoots then buy a CZ the way the tubes are built ensure great consenticity chamber to bore. Then find what it likes, mine hates 35 grn V-max factory with a vengence yet many like them. Many of the guns i have owned have never seen a factory round yet i think with vermin guns like this you often need to just pick some up for the brass or when your in a bind with reloading

 

Conversly to the "needing to handload the Hornet" argument (which i don't nesassarily agree on) i do feel .222 and .223 need to be handloaded just to get the energy levels down some for bunnies etc. I bought the Hornet because i was looking for a one gun one load any quarry up to and including foxes gun, the fact its so cheap to handload is just a bonus. Thus far things have worked out nicely on small quarry but i have yet to give it serious fox duty testing

[wymberley]

Fireforming is over rated in its improvement in accuraccy in all calibres IMO many longer range bench shooters have moved to full length sizing to shoot groups fast in the most similar wind conditions. The key with the hornet is consenricity, slack chambers mean you wont get consentricity to the bore (I think this is were the theory comes from) but fireforming cant help here as you cannot control the round feeding on the wrong plane. Also poor quality brass, once its crooked its always crooked fire formed or not. If you buy factory based on price your going to struggle unless you just fall lucky but dont expect the next batch to be the same even then. If you want the best chance of buying a Hornet that shoots then buy a CZ the way the tubes are built ensure great consenticity chamber to bore. Then find what it likes, mine hates 35 grn V-max factory with a vengence yet many like them. Many of the guns i have owned have never seen a factory round yet i think with vermin guns like this you often need to just pick some up for the brass or when your in a bind with reloading

 

Conversly to the "needing to handload the Hornet" argument (which i don't nesassarily agree on) i do feel .222 and .223 need to be handloaded just to get the energy levels down some for bunnies etc. I bought the Hornet because i was looking for a one gun one load any quarry up to and including foxes gun, the fact its so cheap to handload is just a bonus. Thus far things have worked out nicely on small quarry but i have yet to give it serious fox duty testing

 

It may just help the OP to add a reminder that he is shooting fox and rabbit and not sweating half a crown sixpence on his last round down at Bisley for the Queens Medal.

[Matt Gould]

It may just help the OP to add a reminder that he is shooting fox and rabbit and not sweating half a crown sixpence on his last round down at Bisley for the Queens Medal.

 

 

[Matt Gould]

you will all have to excuse me because i am a total novice to CF rifles. would a .17 cf get affected by wind still like my hmr or would it be okay ? and what are the prices and accuracey like of factory bullets compared to lets say errrm .22 hornet or .204 ?

[kent]

you will all have to excuse me because i am a total novice to CF rifles. would a .17 cf get affected by wind still like my hmr or would it be okay ? and what are the prices and accuracey like of factory bullets compared to lets say errrm .22 hornet or .204 ?

 

Imo forget .17. go .22 hornet for minumum meat damage and quiet report and .20 for maximum effective range, minimum windage. 17 is only better in high and quick fragmentation this gives you another peramiter. as regards factory ammo availability it depends what your local dealer is like on stockholding. Its fair to say that .223 rem is about the best on availability and nothin between it and the .20 at 200yds or so balistically. Hey theres another. .243" win is a cracking long range round and very available also capable of kicking the .20 rugers butt some. theres no end to this decide firmly on what you want the gun to do and were you can compromise then the answer is staring you in the face

[Dekers]

you will all have to excuse me because i am a total novice to CF rifles. would a .17 cf get affected by wind still like my hmr or would it be okay ? and what are the prices and accuracey like of factory bullets compared to lets say errrm .22 hornet or .204 ?

 

 

There is next to nothing available in Factory .17CF ammo, I'm probably wrong as I haven't looked for ages but it was only Remington that made any if I recall, someone will probably put me straight on that.

 

17CF Factory ammo is as hard to find as Rocking Horse ****, and much more expensive. For the few that run them, home brews are the thing I understand.

 

They are Fast, 4000 is quite possible, and they can knock a crows head off at 200yards, if you can do your part, find an ammo/load that works and the weather is kind.

 

I don't have one, as I don't need to shoot crows at 200 yards, not many people really do, they are a technical exercise with limited practical use, that's why few have them, but they can be fun, all be it expensive fun!

 

Wait and see a .17CF owner come along now and tell you they are the best thing since sliced bread and he couldn't get along without one

 

ATB!

Edited September 11, 2011 by Dekers

[Mr_Logic]

Matt - if you want to shoot rabbits with a centrefire then you need to reload, unless Prvi works in your rifle. Otherwise at £1 to £1.50 a bang, it's a bit silly.

 

When you're reloading, get Hornet, and job done. Honestly, it's dead easy and if you're only doing one calibre and one load, not too time consuming (esp in Hornet).

[wymberley]

Matt - if you want to shoot rabbits with a centrefire then you need to reload, unless Prvi works in your rifle. Otherwise at £1 to £1.50 a bang, it's a bit silly.

 

When you're reloading, get Hornet, and job done. Honestly, it's dead easy and if you're only doing one calibre and one load, not too time consuming (esp in Hornet).

 

There you go! Other than going to the pub on a windy night which is emminently more sensible, job done!

[al4x]

Hi guys im looking into getting a centerfire mainly for rabbits but also for a few foxes. i allready shoot a .17hmr what is very good just gets affected buy the wind some nights, so im basicaly looking for a rifle what i can takew out on these windy night. i have allready looked into the .22 hornet but people have told me these are a realoders load which i dont realy want to do. can any one suggest me a round what is not as big as 243 as i shoot on a 240acure shoot wind a couple of surrounding houses but a load what plent of factory loads are avalible. cheers for any help guys

 

 

anything with factory ammo will cost you close to £1 a bang, personally a centrefire isn't a rabbiting tool no matter what some people might make you think on here. Yes it can be done but they aren't ideal and mention the idea to most FEO's and you'll begin to raise the walt alarm. Foxes no problem and a .223 will do everything you want along with one of the cheapest factory loads.

I still use my HMR on windy nights and have few issues keep shots below 100 yards and just go for chest shots rather than head and you don't have issues.

[gixer1]

you'll begin to raise the walt alarm.

 

 

brilliant description!

[kent]

Matt - if you want to shoot rabbits with a centrefire then you need to reload, unless Prvi works in your rifle. Otherwise at £1 to £1.50 a bang, it's a bit silly.

 

When you're reloading, get Hornet, and job done. Honestly, it's dead easy and if you're only doing one calibre and one load, not too time consuming (esp in Hornet).

 

I loaded up 40 Hornet last night and was thinking of this thread, i bet if the OP sat down at the table with me he would be on the Internet with his credit card within the hour. One thing i realy do like is you can handload a Hornet without a blooming great press v.easy indeed better IMO. Short of weighing the charges (which some dont do with lil gun) i recon it would be possible to do sat in the car. Cost wise top of my head not countng brass which you re-use again and again maybee 20pence a pop 1-2 hrs time tops depending on how much prep you do.

 

Personally i have been realy taken with the Hornet having toyed with the idea for many,many years. I am even having thoughts about a single shot falling block custom rifle in the calibre one day as the brass is a bit hard to pick up at night being so small. Also just because i think they are neat! So happy i don't have the HMR now as the Hornet does all that and more for me. If my shot count was quite low or money didn't matter at all i wouldn't be put off using factory ammo though. I paid £1 per bang for RWS, avoiding the cheaper Privi etc as i wanted top brass and to know what the gun was capable of before i started handloading any rounds. If it cost £1 per fox thats not too much but £1 per bunny or crow, practice shot etc that is pushing it

[kent]

anything with factory ammo will cost you close to £1 a bang, personally a centrefire isn't a rabbiting tool no matter what some people might make you think on here. Yes it can be done but they aren't ideal and mention the idea to most FEO's and you'll begin to raise the walt alarm. Foxes no problem and a .223 will do everything you want along with one of the cheapest factory loads.

I still use my HMR on windy nights and have few issues keep shots below 100 yards and just go for chest shots rather than head and you don't have issues.

 

I bet if you tried a Hornet you would like it a lot. For simplification if you can do a body shot in wind with the HMR you can hit it in the head with a Hornet. So far i have yet to try a bunny in the body and will wait till i pull one badly as its simply not required, i have neck shot a big hare and it was perfectly fine indeed similar to what you might expect with the HMR.

 

Walt alarms? subjective realy. Lancs don't generally like it but were fine with me, if you cant convince them that 1/2 or greater improved windage better terminals and fully one gun fox capable as a shorter range reduced power gun aint good reason then you certainly aint got a "good reason" They did see it as an opertunity to raid my cabinet of exess guns though i was spitting mad at the time i doubt i would have realy used the HMR again now. It fits in realy well if you have a .22 lr .22 hornet then a 6mm foxer, sort of gives you set peramiters for when to use each

[casts_by_fly]

Imo forget .17. go .22 hornet for minumum meat damage and quiet report and .20 for maximum effective range, minimum windage. 17 is only better in high and quick fragmentation this gives you another peramiter. as regards factory ammo availability it depends what your local dealer is like on stockholding. Its fair to say that .223 rem is about the best on availability and nothin between it and the .20 at 200yds or so balistically. Hey theres another. .243" win is a cracking long range round and very available also capable of kicking the .20 rugers butt some. theres no end to this decide firmly on what you want the gun to do and were you can compromise then the answer is staring you in the face

 

 

There is next to nothing available in Factory .17CF ammo, I'm probably wrong as I haven't looked for ages but it was only Remington that made any if I recall, someone will probably put me straight on that.

 

17CF Factory ammo is as hard to find as Rocking Horse ****, and much more expensive. For the few that run them, home brews are the thing I understand.

 

They are Fast, 4000 is quite possible, and they can knock a crows head off at 200yards, if you can do your part, find an ammo/load that works and the weather is kind.

 

I don't have one, as I don't need to shoot crows at 200 yards, not many people really do, they are a technical exercise with limited practical use, that's why few have them, but they can be fun, all be it expensive fun!

 

Wait and see a .17CF owner come along now and tell you they are the best thing since sliced bread and he couldn't get along without one

 

ATB!

 

 

 

What he said and what he said. I love my 17 hornet. I had a HMR and loved it, but I wanted a little more oomph since the fields I shoot over are big open wheat fields and shots can range out to 250 yards. I bumped up to a 17 hornet and it does exactly what I intended (+/- 1" out to 200-225 yards). It is point and click. That said, I'd never recommend it or another 17 centerfire for the OP. Mine is cheap to shoot and run. Hornet brass is cheap or free. It only costs 10-12 grains of powder per shot (about 5 pence in powder). I've gotten all of my bullets from the US at cheap prices and good exchanges. It is cheaper than the HMR per shot. With factory loads, you'll never come close to that since the 17's are so specialist. That's if you can even get them in stock.

 

If I were to get a centerfire for shooting a fair few rabbits at 100-250 yards, then I'd be looking at 222/223 depending on what I could get locally and what gun was on sale when I was buying. A hornet would be a consideration (and I have an open slot on my ticket for one as I'd like to have one) witht he right gun.

 

Thanks

Rick

[Alycidon]

17AH Hornet is ideal but needs reloading, that MAY be changing soon as its rumoured that Hornady is to introduce it as a factory round.

 

A