kenelmh Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 Hello all, I have done various kinds of shooting in the past from back yard sniping at pigeons and squirels to rabbit shooting and clays but I have always thought that I would avoid driven game as I was put off by ideas of snobbery and rumours that on some shoots birds are not put to good use. Ie not eaten! I am no wannabe no-nothing activist, it's just I don't beleive you should kill something unless it's a pest or for food (or preferably both). There have been plenty rabbits that have met their demise via my rifle! Can any of you comment on the wastage that's meant to go on at driven game shoots? Am I totally misinformed here? Thanks in advance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highseas Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 yes your are miss informed-granted their not worth much but all gets sold to game dealers we send in almost 2000 a month ive only ever heard of one shoot burying their birds and that was in the snow last year as the game dealer could not pick them up so they went funky in the chiller and had to be disposed off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rimfire4969 Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 Selling shot game to game dealers is part of the income for the shoot. I have been to many shoot and have never heard of one not selling what is left after the guns and beaters have had their share. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 I have been a beater on 4 local shoots of varying sizes and without exception shot birds are used as food by the beaters, guns, local pubs and restaurants and if there are any left after that they are sold to game dealers. All would think it a crime and completely unethical to waste shot birds which had provided good sport. The guns are selective allowing birds considered to present unsporting shots to pass unmolested. As far as I understand it that is the case with most shoots. I think there was a short period in less austere times when shooting as corporate entertainment was in vogue, when large commercial shoots catering for merchant bankers (rhyming slang) released ridiculous numbers of birds to be shot by idiots who were only interested in excess and bragging rights. The same sort of people who think its clever to snort coke and order vintage champagne by the crate only to puke it up. On some of these shoots there were cases of birds being burned Absolutely unforgivable in my book. I think, I hope such things are a rarity now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highseas Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 I have been a beater on 4 local shoots of varying sizes and without exception shot birds are used as food by the beaters, guns, local pubs and restaurants and if there are any left after that they are sold to game dealers. All would think it a crime and completely unethical to waste shot birds which had provided good sport. The guns are selective allowing birds considered to present unsporting shots to pass unmolested. As far as I understand it that is the case with most shoots. I think there was a short period in less austere times when shooting as corporate entertainment was in vogue, when large commercial shoots catering for merchant bankers (rhyming slang) released ridiculous numbers of birds to be shot by idiots who were only interested in excess and bragging rights. The same sort of people who think its clever to snort coke and order vintage champagne by the crate only to puke it up. On some of these shoots there were cases of birds being burned Absolutely unforgivable in my book. I think, I hope such things are a rarity now. what you seem to forget is that game shooting is also an industry! that means jobs lots of jobs (mine included) most shoots thease days are comercial thier are very very few in house shoots,i should laso mention the 1000 bird day we are haveing tomorrow...you know bragging rights! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magman Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 what you seem to forget is that game shooting is also an industry! that means jobs lots of jobs (mine included) most shoots thease days are comercial thier are very very few in house shoots,i should laso mention the 1000 bird day we are haveing tomorrow...you know bragging rights! Be good to no the shots fired , just for the bragging rights Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highseas Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 Be good to no the shots fired , just for the bragging rights ime not lucky enugh to be shooting if their any thing like past years their very good shots with double guns,one guy hit 42 good birds with 50 shots Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 (edited) what you seem to forget is that game shooting is also an industry! that means jobs lots of jobs (mine included) most shoots thease days are comercial thier are very very few in house shoots,i should laso mention the 1000 bird day we are haveing tomorrow...you know bragging rights! What you seem to forget is that you need to read other people posts properly before lecturing them! I'm not saying all commercial shoots are unprincipled just the few who reportedly catered for people who weren't really interested in shooting and who burned or buried hundreds of birds. Like I said, I'd hope such things are in the past. I've no issues with the fact yours is a commercial shoot running 1000 bird days, so long as they are quality birds being driven over guns who can shoot and you're not wasting the game which is shot. Edited November 3, 2011 by Blunderbuss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magman Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 ime not lucky enugh to be shooting if their any thing like past years their very good shots with double guns,one guy hit 42 good birds with 50 shots A joy to watch then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenelmh Posted November 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 Sparked lively debate already! I'm glad that it would apear that the bad days are in the past. Incidentally.. maybe we should have driven days with the 'investment bankers' as the quarry? Once shot, we can then burn 'em! So my next question, is it really as expensive as it's made out to be? I was told once that it was good ettiquet to tip the game keeper a 20 for every bird shot... 50 birds = £1000!!! Plus the cost to be one of the guns in the first place.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highseas Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 Sparked lively debate already! I'm glad that it would apear that the bad days are in the past. Incidentally.. maybe we should have driven days with the 'investment bankers' as the quarry? Once shot, we can then burn 'em! So my next question, is it really as expensive as it's made out to be? I was told once that it was good ettiquet to tip the game keeper a 20 for every bird shot... 50 birds = £1000!!! Plus the cost to be one of the guns in the first place.. no ours is £28 a bird times that by 1000 (maybe more) plus lunch £100 each ,tips around 40-50 pound per gun for the head keeper (ive not seen a tip yet) and about the same for the loaders. but on the big days its almost always one guy who pays for the shooting :blink: :blink: the other guns just give tips the other 7 guns buy their own days and invite the other 7 as guests if that makes sence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 Sparked lively debate already! I'm glad that it would apear that the bad days are in the past. Incidentally.. maybe we should have driven days with the 'investment bankers' as the quarry? Once shot, we can then burn 'em! So my next question, is it really as expensive as it's made out to be? I was told once that it was good ettiquet to tip the game keeper a 20 for every bird shot... 50 birds = £1000!!! Plus the cost to be one of the guns in the first place.. I bet there is a lot of keepers who wish there were truth in that ! , the keeper usually gets tipped I would think on average £20-£40 per gun not per bird ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scolopax Posted November 4, 2011 Report Share Posted November 4, 2011 (edited) IIRC the dumping birds issue came about when a game trailer was stolen off a shoot still with the days bag hung up in it. The birds were dumped in a layby by the thieves. The press got photos of the birds and used it as a base for an articLE on the evils of thE shooting industry. LACS of course lapped it up and milked it as much as possible, using the photos as a core part of their anti shooting propaganda. Edited November 4, 2011 by scolopax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highseas Posted November 4, 2011 Report Share Posted November 4, 2011 1019 wheyyyy and every one wil be used! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted November 5, 2011 Report Share Posted November 5, 2011 Hello all, I have done various kinds of shooting in the past from back yard sniping at pigeons and squirels to rabbit shooting and clays but I have always thought that I would avoid driven game as I was put off by ideas of snobbery and rumours that on some shoots birds are not put to good use. Ie not eaten! I am no wannabe no-nothing activist, it's just I don't beleive you should kill something unless it's a pest or for food (or preferably both). There have been plenty rabbits that have met their demise via my rifle! Can any of you comment on the wastage that's meant to go on at driven game shoots? Am I totally misinformed here? Thanks in advance! what you want to look for is a small day or two 50 bird walked up or driven to get a taster for what its about. They don't get wasted there may have been a period where there was no demand for them but the various game to eat campaigns has sorted that out. You will still get some disposed of which may be why the stories still circulate but these will be ones too damaged for consumption whether by a silly shot or for example hitting a tree on the way down it happens. If they are put in a dead pit and some anti comes accross it you can almost see why they put 2 and 2 together and get 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 (edited) What you seem to forget is that you need to read other people posts properly before lecturing them! I'm not saying all commercial shoots are unprincipled just the few who reportedly catered for people who weren't really interested in shooting and who burned or buried hundreds of birds. Like I said, I'd hope such things are in the past. I've no issues with the fact yours is a commercial shoot running 1000 bird days, so long as they are quality birds being driven over guns who can shoot and you're not wasting the game which is shot. Heartening to know you will be satisfied with any shoot as long as they meet your conditions! Just what do you propose, testing all the guns before you let them out, and waiting for exactly the right weather conditions to present quality birds? It's called a Commercial shoot for a reason! Edited November 6, 2011 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 Heartening to know you will be satisfied with any shoot as long as they meet your conditions! Just what do you propose, testing all the guns before you let them out, and waiting for exactly the right weather conditions to present quality birds? It's called a Commercial shoot for a reason! Yeah whatever. Can't be ***** to rise to to troll bait. Have a nice day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 1019 wheyyyy and every one wil be used! That is a lot whichever way you look at it, out of interest How many drives and How many guns? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highseas Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 That is a lot whichever way you look at it, out of interest How many drives and How many guns? 5 drives ,,,4 pheasant/part,,,1 duck drive 7 guns with loaders and double guns. one loader had lost most the skin on one finger the barrles were that hot! all in all a very good day, we only put down 11,000 pheasants! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFN Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 Can't imagine many shoots would deliberately waste birds as they do have a value, even if it's only small. I've never been on a driven shoot, and I'm sure it's great, but I prefer the excitement (and frustrations)of rough shooting, where you don't know how the day will go. Paying to bag huge numbers dosen't float my boat but each to their own. I also like sea fishing but the idea of going to a well stocked fishing lake bores me to tears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 5 drives ,,,4 pheasant/part,,,1 duck drive 7 guns with loaders and double guns. one loader had lost most the skin on one finger the barrles were that hot! all in all a very good day, we only put down 11,000 pheasants! That is some going! 6 Drives, 5 Pheasant 1 Partridge, 7 guns on Sat for me at a Big Estate, just scraped past 300, shocking, they were terrible shots, but it would never have got close to 1000 anyway! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigger Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 Can't imagine many shoots would deliberately waste birds as they do have a value, even if it's only small. I've never been on a driven shoot, and I'm sure it's great, but I prefer the excitement (and frustrations)of rough shooting, where you don't know how the day will go. Paying to bag huge numbers dosen't float my boat but each to their own. I also like sea fishing but the idea of going to a well stocked fishing lake bores me to tears. I love rough shooting i only go on driven shoots to beat and pick up driven shooting does not apeal, i even give my space on cock days to one of the young ones and stand with them while they shoot not many do that that's for sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highseas Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 That is some going! 6 Drives, 5 Pheasant 1 Partridge, 7 guns on Sat for me at a Big Estate, just scraped past 300, shocking, they were terrible shots, but it would never have got close to 1000 anyway! we got 300 on the first drive.....god i love being awsome some times we only do it once a year,big days that is that one day will pay for my and the head mans wage for the year as well as fuel.tax.mot and insurance for the landy so you can se how much it means for the estate our worst day this year was 3 guns on a walked up they fired 250 shots and got....... 24 birds (4 of with were pegged) :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulpicide Posted November 8, 2011 Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 I sometimes get pheasants on estates when we've been there with hounds or the terriers and I accept them process them and feed off them all winter one of my mates was doing fox control in perth and phoned me theyed missed the game dealer I got 20 brace of pheasants a pinkfoot a woodcock and a teal they all went on to make me the fat b***ard you've all grown to love Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alycidon Posted November 8, 2011 Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 I have done between 12 and 20 driven days a year for the last 40 odd years. Was out today, I have never come across anyone who buries birds, prices for shot birds are pretty poor, we are competing with table reared shot free birds from Europe so most are given away to locals. Big shoots tend to have deals with game dealers who collect big quantities. Most big days are corporate let days, no real experience of that but if I was a gun in a drive that shot 300+ I would be bored to death after the first few minutes. You tend to get the birds taking the same 2 or 3 lines, so once you have found them on a given line its like production line. No skill in that just the ability to repeat an exercise. On a drive today I had shot 6 or 7 on the trot mainly on two lines, birds continued to come along the same lines so I let my next door guns shoot them, I knew I could if i wanted to but what was the point. They were all very good high fast birds that anyone would be proud to shoot, I knew I could have them if I wanted and that was enough for me. Maybe I am getting soft. My issue with corporate days is safety and lack of respect for the quarry. People with no shooting experience at all are hele coptered in, a loader puts one of a pair of guns in their hands and the gun is expected to use the guns safely and skilfully. He is on a hiding to nothing. I heard of an American who a friend was loading for on a partridge day, they put one gun away and the loader stuffed the other one. After lunch the loader stuffed over 600 cartridges, to his knowledge his gun shot 4 birds, thats 150 to 1, undoubtedly the poorest shooting I have ever heard of. A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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