M.I.A Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 (edited) In all fairness, if I ask someone to leave my property and they don't then they will be removed, regardless of how the law stands. This don't really apply to cold callers as I can't imagine many refusing to leave, but all the same Edited November 11, 2011 by M.I.A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muggins. Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 If you try to forcibly and manually try to remove someone from your doorstep what`s to stop him dumping you on your ****?? Could he say he felt threatened therefore defended himself?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highseas Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 Like stubby, I have a sign up stating No salesmen No charities No hawkers i do love that term the joy of liveing in a caravan in the **** end of nowhere is no one cold calls, not even a post man has been to my door for 4 years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.I.A Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 If you try to forcibly and manually try to remove someone from your doorstep what`s to stop him dumping you on your ****?? Could he say he felt threatened therefore defended himself?? NO because IF it did happen they have come onto my property and refused my requests to leave. I can't imagine any laws being broken there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 Gordon states that he has looked up the law and is confident that he can prove the right to remove trespassers. But he doesn't state what law that is or provide a link to the legislation. This isn't the first time that he has eluded to legislation that he is reluctant to publish. I will nail my colours on the mast; There is no legal power that I know of that permits any householder to physically remove a stroppy door to door salesman from their drive. If anyone can point me to the legislation then I will consider it. What I believe is that anyone following Gordon's suggestion could find themselves subject to a claim of assault. If you want to lose your guns then go ahead and throw the salesmen off your drive. Sensible people will just shut the door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.I.A Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 I agree with just closing the door but for instance if I feel threatened in MY own house then the law does allow me to use force, I would never ever do anything that could land me in trouble I have far to much to loose. Again too much is being thought into all this, if anyone refused to leave and was not being aggressive then I would shut the door, if anyone refused to leave and become aggressive I won't have that, not I'm my own home! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RED BEARD Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 i'm not siding with anyone here,but surely it makes no difference that they are a sales man/woman.the point is they have entered your property and refuse to leave? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeds chimp Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 Gordon states that he has looked up the law and is confident that he can prove the right to remove trespassers. But he doesn't state what law that is or provide a link to the legislation. This isn't the first time that he has eluded to legislation that he is reluctant to publish. I will nail my colours on the mast; There is no legal power that I know of that permits any householder to physically remove a stroppy door to door salesman from their drive. If anyone can point me to the legislation then I will consider it. What I believe is that anyon following Gordon's suggestion could find themselves subject to a claim of assault. If you want to lose your guns then go ahead nd throw the salesmen off your drive. Sensible people will just shut the door. on my phone but will post the link later just for little ole you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 on my phone but will post the link later just for little ole you To save you time, don't post the Common Law right without first checking the Good Practice Guidelines: Police should always be notified of an eviction and called in to stand by to prevent a breach of the peace. And considering the necessity for the immediate eviction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hushpower Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 Put a small 3"x3" at eye level above the door handle saying,NO HAWKERS or CANVERSERS. IT does work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 If you point out that you have asked someone to leave your property and add that you are entitled to assist them using reasonable force, if they are causing a genuine problem - this is not assault. Any reasonable person would leave. That might be a difficult concept for some who might have been in the Police, or then again, might not. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeds chimp Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 If you point out that you have asked someone to leave your property and add that you are entitled to assist them using reasonable force, if they are causing a genuine problem - this is not assault. Any reasonable person would leave. That might be a difficult concept for some who might have been in the Police, or then again, might not. :lol: again so how come I have thrown many people of out of bars and nightclubs and never been actually charged with assault then??? same situation!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chard Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 I don't really give a flying **** what the law is. If someone threatened me on my doorstep, they'd have a problem I've got no time for any cold callers and I don't care what they're selling. If I need something, I'll go down the ******* shop. I don't need some cornholing **** telling me what I need..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 Chard - don't dress it up - tell us straight. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 again so how come I have thrown many people of out of bars and nightclubs and never been actually charged with assault then??? same situation!!!! Not the same situation at all if you think about it. A person causing problems in a bar cannot easily be dealt with by simply closing your front door. THEY have to be taken away from the problem. A canvasser at your door acting stroppily is not a problem if you close the door. Gordon is unlikely to follow his own methods. He doesn't have the courage to post his grounds for his views let alone get to grips with someone. The type of person you would find organising Neighbourhood Watch meetings, chairing Parish Councils, the little man with the big dog you see in the park. Some PW members might however be a little more enthusiastic and it is to them, not the pompous idiot who posts this rubbish that I am saying: Don't even think about laying hands on them! It is fraught with danger from many angles including being assaulted yourself, having to injure the other party to control them if they doen't go quietly and of course the liklihood of a counter complaint for assualt. Any force used has to fulfill three criteria to be lawful; It has to be justified, necessary and proportionate. Evicting a stroppy door to door salesman off your drive would never be justified or necessary in the eyes of the law. The Common Law power to evict trespassers comes with caveats including calling the police to ensure a breach of the peace does not occur from either party. Taking hold of someone nowadays is almost guaranteed to result in a counter claim for assault. You would have to justify your actions and the three questions you would be asked is: Why didn't you close the door? Why didn't you call the police? Why did you feel it necessary to evict them immediately? At best you might get a Warning or Caution for assault. At worst a conviction. If you have a SGC or FAC you could kiss that goodbye. It is stupid advice. Don't do it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksdad Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 fair comment! Seems to me that if some geezer knocks on your door to try to sell something and you cause them any harm at all, you are in the wrong :blink: You have a driveway or path to your front door, which is to provide access to your house....throttling someone for using it whilst you are eating your dinner/watching TV otherwise engaged isn't going to look to good is it! I just say NO THANKS! and close the door....end of errand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berties Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 A ex neighbour of mine turned local conservative counciller was out canvasing a few years ago and went to a larger property of a well known local business man, who was not feeling the love of the conservatives,ejected the chap by force and ended up in court and was convicted,what would the line be for the justice system,if you could man handle people of your property you feeling threatened by a cold caller or you getting ****** off by people selling you stuff you don't want,or just having a bad day,if you choose to try and eject some one from your property then you will get a call from old bill if they report it. We don't get cold callers or collectors due to the rural position of our house,and have taken action of trespassers into my own hands,but a good salesmen/canvaser know the law,if you fancy a visit to the local magistrate have a pop,I would just close the door they will soon move on to make a sell some where else,its not worth getting upset about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 (edited) UK POacher - it is hard not to reply to the drivel that you post. Who mentioned assaulting a caller? Assisting someone to leave is just that - assisting them. You jump to conclusions using the brainpower of a gnat. I presume you were a Chief Constable - then again - perhaps not. Perhaps you can explain why a stroppy person in a bar has to be taken away - why? Why can the bar not just call the Police. Then again, if a jobsworth like you turned up - I could see their reluctance. :lol: Edited November 12, 2011 by Gordon R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeds chimp Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 UK POacher - it is hard not to reply to the drivel that you post. Who mentioned assaulting a caller? Assisting someone to leave is just that - assisting them. You jump to conclusions using the brainpower of a gnat. I presume you were a Chief Constable - then again - perhaps not. Perhaps you can explain why a stroppy person in a bar has to be taken away - why? Why can the bar not just call the Police. Then again, if a jobsworth like you turned up - I could see their reluctance. :lol: nice one fella... Actually "throwing" the person out of the bar is a last resort...when they refuse to leave or make it pretty clear that they will put up a struggle..and you try calling the police on a Friday or Saturday night.. Please sir the big nasty man wont leave ..... :lol: therefore...if they salesman is still on the doorstep even after you have closed the door and says keeps banging on the door then the right to remove is clear as the invation has been removed to be on your property....remember tresspass is common law not criminal law. At best you might get a Warning or Caution for assault. At worst a conviction. If you have a SGC or FAC you could kiss that goodbye. and shows how much you know... A caution IS a conviction!!!!! :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 (edited) leeds chimp At best you might get a Warning or Caution for assault. At worst a conviction. If you have a SGC or FAC you could kiss that goodbye. Thanks for the reminder. They have exactly the same effect. I had missed that little classic from our "expert". Assisting someone to leave is clearly not the first option, but it does depend on just how nasty they get. I was originally pointing out the options, but some like to dive straight in, exaggerate, jump to conclusions and then start making idiotic remarks about Parish Councils and Neighbourhood Watches. A bit odd that - using "Neighbourhood Watch" in a negative context. I thought the Police welcomed these. Our Greater Manchester Firearms lad certainly does. I do start to wonder if some ex Policemen actually did serve, or were perhaps civilian workers who worked in a Police Station. Who knows? ;) :hmm: Edited November 12, 2011 by Gordon R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeds chimp Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 leeds chimp Thanks for the reminder. They have exactly the same effect. I had missed that little classic from our "expert". Assisting someone to leave is clearly not the first option, but it does depend on just how nasty they get. I was originally pointing out the options, but some like to dive straight in, exaggerate, jump to conclusions and then start making idiotic remarks about Parish Councils and Neighbourhood Watches. A bit odd that - using "Neighbourhood Watch" in a negative context. I thought the Police welcomed these. Our Greater Manchester Firearms lad certainly does. I do start to wonder if some ex Policemen actually did serve, or were perhaps civilian workers who worked in a Police Station. Who knows? ;) :hmm: or people that have dealt with the police for 10 years most weeks and know most laws inside out....love it when you get the law student try and tell you what you are doing is illegal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 (edited) and shows how much you know... A caution IS a conviction!!!!! :lol: No it's not. A caution is a warning issued after an admission of guilt, usually for less serious offences. You'd be convicted of an offence if found guilty by a court. Edited November 12, 2011 by poontang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeds chimp Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 No it's not. A caution is a warning issued after an admission of guilt, usually for less serious offences. You'd be convicted of an offence if found guilty by a court. still classed as an offence and conviction in the eyes of the law dealt with it many many times with work put it another way to hold a sia licence you cant be CONVICTED of any offence this includes a caution. A caution saves you going to court as its dealt with at the station Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 still classed as an offence and conviction in the eyes of the law dealt with it many many times with work put it another way to hold a sia licence you cant be CONVICTED of any offence this includes a caution. A caution saves you going to court as its dealt with at the station It's not a conviction. For that you have to be CONVICTED of something. It's simply a warning after an admission of guilt. As you have pointed out, to hold a sia licence you mustn't have been convicted of any offence, OR have any cautions. That's because they are two seperate things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 Poontang - I concur, but in terms in getting or keeping a SGC / FAC - not a lot of difference. Both would severely hamper you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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