trayback100 Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 hi all just moved up to 243 fromm 223,stayed with same gun as i had great results with it .i always used ballistic tip ammo and never had a fox run on or even move after being hit either head neck or boiler room.im now using softpoint ammo as i use the same ammo on deer ,iv hit 2 foxes spot on the engine room and they have run about for 15 _30 seconds before lights out so now thinking balistic tip ammo for both bambi and fox any one else had run ons? thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beretta28g Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 You dont want to really be using ballistic tipped bullets on deer, they can make a big mess and in the case of large deer fail to penetrate enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deershooter Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 .223 bullets are thinner jacketed for vermin ,the .243 are thicker jackets and more suitable for bigger game Deershooter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackley Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 (edited) hi all just moved up to 243 fromm 223,stayed with same gun as i had great results with it .i always used ballistic tip ammo and never had a fox run on or even move after being hit either head neck or boiler room.im now using softpoint ammo as i use the same ammo on deer ,iv hit 2 foxes spot on the engine room and they have run about for 15 _30 seconds before lights out so now thinking balistic tip ammo for both bambi and fox any one else had run ons? thanks no matter what you shoot you will get a runner from time to time,having only had 2 runners for such a short time I wouldnt worry too much about it just yet,the foxes could have winded you and ready to have it away on there toes,one will never know.just use them again then if the same result is found then change,personally throw anything at a fox from a 243 is going to kill it finally you cant compare a 223 against a 243 the bullets are totally different Edited November 23, 2011 by Ackley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deershooter Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 Beretta28g I have used 150g Nosler B/tips in .308 and 120g B/tips in .2506 as does my mate he had over 100 deer last year I was no where near this amount but never lost an animal and never had too much meat damage this must be my 12 year using them with no problems Deershooter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beretta28g Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 I used a .243(Estate rifle) with Ballistic tips on a muntjac, and that badly damaged he chest cavity on that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trayback100 Posted November 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 no matter what you shoot you will get a runner from time to time,having only had 2 runners for such a short time I wouldnt worry too much about it just yet,the foxes could have winded you and ready to have it away on there toes,one will never know.just use them again then if the same result is found then change,personally throw anything at a fox from a 243 is going to kill it finally you cant compare a 223 against a 243 the bullets are totally different i watched them run in big circles then drop over with 223 ballistic tips there was a bang and lights out never a runner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 Unless things are extremely tight with the budget you won't be eating the fox so a light fast moving ballistic tip will do alot of carcass damage and have a nice flat trajectory. Deer have tougher skins plus you don't want to blow big holes in the side of them so a 100gr soft point. I just use 100gr sp, don't shoot many fox's but the ones I've shot dropped dead pretty quick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 hi all just moved up to 243 fromm 223,stayed with same gun as i had great results with it .i always used ballistic tip ammo and never had a fox run on or even move after being hit either head neck or boiler room.im now using softpoint ammo as i use the same ammo on deer ,iv hit 2 foxes spot on the engine room and they have run about for 15 _30 seconds before lights out so now thinking balistic tip ammo for both bambi and fox any one else had run ons? thanks Which species of deer are you shooting? Roe and muntjac drop just fine with the 70gr Nosler or 87v-max. Yes it's a bit messy but not so much as to render it inedible. Deer bullets can also cause such damage - I shot a munty with an 85gr Sierra gameking a while back, whole thing was absolutely mullered; not edible at all. I shot the 95gr Hornady SST at deer and fox. Moderate damage to both, none of either species got up again. Might be worth a try on top of 46gr H4831SC (as usual work up to it) - worked well for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vermincinerator Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 Nosler Ballistic tips come in both thin jacket varmint versions and thicker jacket hunting versions. All BTs upto 257cal and 85grn in weight are varmint bullets, all BTs over this weight in all calibres are the thick jacket hunting bullet. Ian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyb Posted November 24, 2011 Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 I would recheck your zero... Sounds to me like new rifle syndrome more than anything ammo related. A 243 has a lot more knock down power on tap over a 223 after all. Put it in the right places, and they won't get up again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted November 24, 2011 Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 side by side comparison I did with GB in the summer two foxes same sort of range and the 85grn soft point did more damage than the 75 vmax so I'd suggest its not ammo related either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted November 24, 2011 Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 The problem is that a good Deer bullet will pass clean through a Fox. If you use a more frangible bullet your Deer damage will increase. It's one of those problems you stumble across when you try to use one calibre for two uses. As the Deer is the important one of the two I'd stick with a Deer bullet, it will drop the Foxes but not as well. Using a good Fox bullet for Deer is just looking for trouble unless you place your shot in the neck area - but then that means that you have to select your shots much more carefully as the target area is more critical. How often do you shoot Deer should be another consideration? If it's not a lot then it may be worth running two types of ammo and adjusting the scope for the Deer bullets as and when needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_b_wales Posted November 24, 2011 Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 I use 100grn SP on fox, and have never had a runner. I always aim for the chest area, everytime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted November 24, 2011 Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 Watch out your not flinching, sometimes moving from a sweet little cartrigde to something larger can be a little unsettling. That aside don't assume that as you now have a 243 less care in shot placement is required. Next thing is don't assume about how a bullet should perform, that will only provide dissapointment. Experiment and form your own opinion based on your own experience. I once had a rem stainless 243 that had such deep lands it would turn Hornady 100grn soft points into the most violent varmint bullet I had ever seen, even to the point where it would cut roe in half nearly but the same bullet and load out of a Vanguard would perform perfectly! Have you shot some targets in your common field posistions? That can show up things! Good luck, get some more U. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted November 24, 2011 Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 Oh, just how does one "over kill" something? Never could get my head around that one U. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted November 24, 2011 Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 I usually see "overkill" as making a mess when you shoot something. There's no harm in it if the quarry isn't required for food but in my mind anything bigger than a Hornet is overkill for Rabbits, over .243 is overkill for Fox and over say .30-06 is overkill for Deer etc. Dead is dead though. The thing I find more of a concern is "underkill"! I'd rather shoot a Fox with my .338 Win Mag than I would with my .22lr. I've never failed to find a Fox I've shot with my .338 - sometimes I have to look for the bits but at least I know it didn't suffer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magman Posted November 24, 2011 Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 No such thing as over kill IMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trayback100 Posted November 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 I would recheck your zero... Sounds to me like new rifle syndrome more than anything ammo related. A 243 has a lot more knock down power on tap over a 223 after all. Put it in the right places, and they won't get up again. having used the 223 browning x bolt plenty happy with it bought the exact same rifle in 243 same mod same pod exact match zero spot on half inch at 100 yard so i know my rifle its just the issue of ammo and running off that is my query as iv had foxes run on with spot on shots Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yankeedoodlepigeon Posted November 24, 2011 Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 Over kill = killing a Rabbit with a Nuclear bomb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted November 24, 2011 Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 No such thing as over kill IMHO Yeah, once it's been killed it's, err, well, killed. It's not something that can be over done or under done for that matter. If it's not been killed, well, it's not been killed has it :unsure: I think they call that a wound! Maybe it's just me :look: U. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 There's a big difference between a kill and a clean kill. Underkill as I think of it is easily possible - Shoot a Deer in the heart with a .22lr and there's a good chance it will die. Doesn't mean it's a good thing to do (for moral reasons rather than legal). If you take the word overkill to mean just what it says then I suppose there is no such thing - dead is dead after all. In my mind it simply means that you've used something that's considerably more powerful than needed. It's a vague term not an exact science! I've shot many Rabbits with my Deer rifles. I consider that overkill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 hi all just moved up to 243 fromm 223,stayed with same gun as i had great results with it .i always used ballistic tip ammo and never had a fox run on or even move after being hit either head neck or boiler room.im now using softpoint ammo as i use the same ammo on deer ,iv hit 2 foxes spot on the engine room and they have run about for 15 _30 seconds before lights out so now thinking balistic tip ammo for both bambi and fox any one else had run ons? thanks Your using deer bullets here i assume Generally 95 grns upwards (though ultimatly its down to bullet construction for purpose not weight) nothing much to do with what the bullet looks like externally either or what tip it has. Whats happening is your getting pass throughs with hardly any expantion or fargmentation in the cavity. Hit them with say a 70 grn Nosler b/tip or any of the light 50 odd grain things and things will be very different Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 It's a tough one. I wouldn't want to shoot a Deer with a 70gr NBT, but for Foxes it'll certainly put them down hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 I use 100grn SP on fox, and have never had a runner. I always aim for the chest area, everytime. same here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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