Taking along a friend

[chilly]

I wonder if anyone can explain the rules on taking a friend along when shooting for pigeons or rabbits? (shotgun)

 

if i get permission off the farmer which states, " me plus 1 or 2 guests" can i allow them to use a gun under my supervision and how far do the rules go???

[mossy835]

this comes up all the time, phone your flo,but if you own the land then yes, if you do not own the land then no, this is what i was told buy my flo. im under avon somerset,

[bedwards1966]

I think that as long as you have shooting rights there (i.e the farmer is happy with you bringing someone else along) then I think you can supervise someone as long as you are over 21 and have held a shotgun cert for at least 2 years. I think to supervise you must be within sight and sound of the person, which obviously you would be.

[chilly]

Thanks for that, I ll check it out and get a definitive answer

[mossy835]

yes i would,phone your H/Q

[inthedark]

Check out mossy835 for the right answer

[Luckyshot]

this comes up all the time, phone your flo,but if you own the land then yes, if you do not own the land then no, this is what i was told buy my flo. im under avon somerset,

 

yes i would,phone your H/Q

 

Check out mossy835 for the right answer

 

 

If you mean the info in blue then good advise but if you mean the info in red then it would be bad advice as every county have their own interpratation of the occupier status.

[compo90]

its been stated in law now (case law after a trial and a judge made a decision) that occupier of land includes employee's and those with rights to be there (someone with permission) as such sec 11(5) of the firearms act 1968 allows such a loan

 

5)A person may, without holding a shot gun certificate, borrow a shot gun from the occupier of private premises and use it on those premises in the occupier’s presence.

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/27

 

I had to check this out as i recently took my sons cadet unit out and did some informal clay shooting.

 

the other shooter who helped on the day is now an FEO for the met.

 

you if you are granted permission may supervise a friend closely using your gun

[chilly]

Thanks Compo90, that seems quite definitive, is there anything in it about how long you have to hold your SGC before you can supervise a friend?

[Good shot?]

This has only recently been discussed.

 

The answer was you can only use a shot gun without possessing a SGC if you are loaned a gun from the owner of the land /shooting rights and under his supervision.(this answer excludes clay pigeon clubs)

 

If you do not own the land or shooting rights you cannot legally lend your mate your gun even if you have permission to shoot.

 

Hopefully Compo90's post supercedes this recent answer.

Edited December 27, 2011 by Good shot?

[Piebob]

its been stated in law now (case law after a trial and a judge made a decision) that occupier of land includes employee's and those with rights to be there (someone with permission) as such sec 11(5) of the firearms act 1968 allows such a loan

 

 

Can you provide some evidence of this please?

[HDAV]

have held a shotgun cert for at least 2 years. I think to supervise you must be within sight and sound of the person, which obviously you would be.

Never heard of this 2 year thing before? Can you reference it please.

 

Also i belive you only have to be over 21 to supervise an under 15. But have to be over 18 to lend a Shotgun (this applies where both parties are SGC holders)

 

The term is "occupier" which was untested as far as i was aware, if there has been a ruling to define occupier it should be clearer for all concerned.

 

 

BASC have guidance here: http://www.basc.org.uk/download.cfm/docid/CD411880-8D54-42F7-988CB24C93AC5132

Sections 11(5) and 11(6) -Firearms Act 1968 allow non-certificate holders to shoot

shotguns in the following circumstances ONLY:

a) when using the occupier’s gun, on the occupier’s private land and in his/her

presence. (NEW – Under Section 11(5) only, non certificate holders aged less than 18

years but are 15 years or older, may now only be lent a shotgun in these circumstances

by a person aged 18 years or older. Under 15’s must always be supervised by a 21 year

old or over).

or

B) when at a police approved clay shoot (Section 11(6))

The Home Office publication: “Firearms Law, Guidance to the Police 2002” provides guidance

relating to a) above in Section 6.14. It says;

“ Section 11(5) of the 1968 Act allows an individual, without holding a shot gun certificate, to

borrow a shot gun from the occupier of private premises and use it on those premises in the

occupier’s presence. The presence of the occupier is normally taken to mean within sight and

earshot of the individual borrowing the firearm. The term “occupier” is not defined in the

Firearms Acts, nor has a Court clarified its meaning. However, the Firearms Consultative

Committee in their 5th Annual report recommended that the provisions of section 27 of the

Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 be adopted. This states that ‘“occupier” in relation to any

land, other than the foreshore, includes any person having any right of hunting, shooting,

fishing or taking game or fish’. In the absence of any firm definition for firearms purposes, it is

suggested that each chief officer of police may wish to make use of this definition.”

To gain police approval under B) it is necessary to write to the police firearms licensing

department for the area concerned seeking a Section 11(6) Exemption.

In the event of a club or individual organising such events on a regular basis the police may

issue the Section 11(6) Exemption for a period of time, for instance, for a year.

Holding a shoot where non-certificate holders are participating without the exemptions above

places organisers and participants outside the law.

[chilly]

Can of worms?

[Dekers]

its been stated in law now (case law after a trial and a judge made a decision) that occupier of land includes employee's and those with rights to be there (someone with permission) as such sec 11(5) of the firearms act 1968 allows such a loan

 

5)A person may, without holding a shot gun certificate, borrow a shot gun from the occupier of private premises and use it on those premises in the occupier’s presence.

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/27

 

I had to check this out as i recently took my sons cadet unit out and did some informal clay shooting.

 

the other shooter who helped on the day is now an FEO for the met.

 

you if you are granted permission may supervise a friend closely using your gun

 

 

Cheers Compo, this was always the debatable area and we have been waiting a Test case to resolve the issue, what was the Case please for reference!

[Dekers]

I think that as long as you have shooting rights there (i.e the farmer is happy with you bringing someone else along) then I think you can supervise someone as long as you are over 21 and have held a shotgun cert for at least 2 years. I think to supervise you must be within sight and sound of the person, which obviously you would be.

 

 

Can you reference this for me please, its new to me but legislation evolves all the time.

 

Cheers!

[andy198712]

my local officer told me that i couldnt use my mates guns, on his permission, but this was fac stuff, not sgc....

 

devon and cornwall that was