ging125 Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Hi All! I was wondering when I would be eligible/ deemed fit by the local constabulary to posess a centre fire rifle. I have been shooting for about 3 years, started off with a air arms s410 about 3years, shotgun about 18months ago and then applied and got FAC for .22lr and 17hmr in early sept, both of which Have had around 500 rounds through them. The permission i have now needs some fox control but not sure if it is worth my while applying for a variation for a centre fire! What are your thoughts? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beretta28g Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 If you have a good reason to posess then apply they can only say no! It may be better having a quiet chat with your FEO first to see if he would be happy with it, and also find someone in your area who shoots a centerfire, get some experience with them, and then you can use them as a reference to help you get your C/F Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12borejimbo Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 It will certainly help the fact you have a bit of experience, be it only rimfire but its how everyone else started. Personally I think you should always ask, because if you dont ask you dont get. See if you can get in with a local, like a gamekeeper or a pest controller or someone who has a centrefire rifle that can take you under their wing. Thats how I started. Good luck, im sure all will be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 I know things have changed over time BUT if you have good reason you have good reason. I don't reay see rimfires as great c/f training tools in terms of safety indeed among the worst c/f users i have ever shot with most did years with rimfires first and learnt loads of bad habbits along the way and got away with it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 There is no time scale, it is about need. If you have a bit of (good) history, it isn't going to do any harm just the same. Many get a CF on first grant! If it not sensible or practical to deal with the fox with your rimfires or Shotgun then apply for a CF stating your case! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 There is no time scale, it is about need. If you have a bit of (good) history, it isn't going to do any harm just the same. Many get a CF on first grant! If it not sensible or practical to deal with the fox with your rimfires or Shotgun then apply for a CF stating your case! Agreed, does your local force allow rimfire for fox? If not, then you have a good case. I got two CF on first application, they never questioned it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ging125 Posted December 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Thanks for all the advice! I just don't want to waste £25 on a variation with no luck if I should have waited a few more months or years! I have experience with CF as the bro in law has a 243 for foxing, I may be able to get a letter from him and the farmer stating a case! I would like to think I haven't developed any bad habits that I could take from rimfire to centre fire, Was thinking 243 or 308 and using it for stalking? But it's a bit of a difference in calibre! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 After a year with two rimfires I put in for 3 centrrefire rifles (and a FAC shotgun whilst I was at it) and not a bit of bother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Thanks for all the advice! I just don't want to waste £25 on a variation with no luck if I should have waited a few more months or years! I have experience with CF as the bro in law has a 243 for foxing, I may be able to get a letter from him and the farmer stating a case! I would like to think I haven't developed any bad habits that I could take from rimfire to centre fire, Was thinking 243 or 308 and using it for stalking? But it's a bit of a difference in calibre! Dont ask for 308 for foxing permision and the facility to go on pay for the day stalks, it will start alarm bells. Go .243" it will do all you ask make IMO the best foxer you can buy and be the smallest Deer legal cal on all UK deer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colster Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 Thanks for all the advice! I just don't want to waste £25 on a variation with no luck if I should have waited a few more months or years! If they don't grant it, you'll get your money back. No one here can really predict what your FLO will say but I'd put your case forward and see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 Thanks for all the advice! I just don't want to waste £25 on a variation with no luck if I should have waited a few more months or years! I have experience with CF as the bro in law has a 243 for foxing, I may be able to get a letter from him and the farmer stating a case! I would like to think I haven't developed any bad habits that I could take from rimfire to centre fire, Was thinking 243 or 308 and using it for stalking? But it's a bit of a difference in calibre! It's £26 round here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooter Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 I went from sub 12ft/lb to .223 on an open ticket in less than six months. In that time I had run over 4000 rounds of .17 HMR and over 2000 rounds of .22lr, but we did have a big rabbit problem. :o I passed my DSC1 within a year and I asked for and got 6.5 and .308 also open from the start. If you have a valid reason you should be OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 I agree with Kent - don't ask for a .308 for Foxes! .243 is a big step up from rimfire but if you can show a need then it's a fair thing to ask for. Without Deer permission you may struggle to get larger than a .22cf but hey, there's no harm in asking! .243 isn't my favourite Deer calibre by a long shot but for Foxes it takes some beating! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul6806 Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) I did it **** about face, first off applied for a .308, .223. and .22 first for targets, then went for a shotgun, now a variation for a closed certificate for vermin with the .22's and moderators, and a blank slot for a 6.5x47 lapua. Edited January 3, 2012 by paul6806 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHunter Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 You won't waste £25\£26 if the variation is declined you should get your money back. TH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basil-blaster Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) dependant on the police authority they may want you to get a flat round something like a 204 ruger or a 22-250. alot of people i know had to change the calibre from a 243 to a lesser calibre and a flatter round even though you can get flat shooting out of the 243. thats just the experiance i had when i asked them on the phone which calibre i would be ok with on our land at home. a few people i know had a big problem with over sizing there first centrefire. ( for example my mate dave had a 22 wmr and applied for a 243 for foxes and a 30-06 and he was refused it for both! they said the 243 was to large for some reason, so he had to get a 223 and they let him have 30-06 after he reapplied after he had the centrefire for a bit and did dsc1 they didnt even take the letter he sent in as anything the first time round and it was for pay days too, weird that int it) my dad didnt get 243 for our farm but when he reapplied for a 22-250 he got it no problem but they said that due to the houses at the end of the back feild and the road that devides our land,they said a 243 was too large. i only got a 243 as i have a open lisence. also right a letter with the application and state that if the 243 is too large that you would be satisfied with which ever other you choose. i did it when i sent in for a dedicated night vision but because i had a open lisence it didnt matter land restricts the calibre so apply somewere with large safe backstops then you should be ok bear it in mind about the letter makes the police take more notice of the fact you need a fox calibre and your not too pick you just need to a centrefire. Edited February 7, 2012 by basil-blaster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basil-blaster Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 I went from sub 12ft/lb to .223 on an open ticket in less than six months. In that time I had run over 4000 rounds of .17 HMR and over 2000 rounds of .22lr, but we did have a big rabbit problem. :o I passed my DSC1 within a year and I asked for and got 6.5 and .308 also open from the start. If you have a valid reason you should be OK. were the hell do you live? you got a open lisence straight out?? i have never heard of that i appied for mine on our 2 farms and thats hundreds of acres and i didnt get it open for 17 hmr and i even asked! and i had experiance since 10 years old with shotgun and from 14 with 22-250 and 223 and 25-06 and i was shooting 10 foxes a month with my dad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted February 8, 2012 Report Share Posted February 8, 2012 were the hell do you live? you got a open lisence straight out?? i have never heard of that North Yorkshire everyone is open Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolly Posted February 8, 2012 Report Share Posted February 8, 2012 i did it when i sent in for a dedicated night vision . do you need a slot on your certificate for a night vision scope ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beretta28g Posted February 8, 2012 Report Share Posted February 8, 2012 If you want a second rifle to have it on you do. If you want NV you can apply to have two rifles of the same caliber, one standard sight and one NV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolly Posted February 8, 2012 Report Share Posted February 8, 2012 I need to get this straight before i spend a fortune, can I not just buy a NV scope and fit it ? does it need a slot on my FAC ? i hope not because i have just spent a week filling out forms collecting references and doing shooting risk assesments :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedwards1966 Posted February 8, 2012 Report Share Posted February 8, 2012 You can just buy and fit a night vision scope or attachment for your existing scope. The only time you need to get a variation is if you were wanting a second rifle as some people have a second rifle in the same calibre and have it permanently set up for night vision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted February 9, 2012 Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 North Yorkshire everyone is open Open? or no territorial restrictions? Were land needs to be cleared for use of that calibre it is not "open" and if you used say a .223 on land only cleared for HMR you would be in breech of your FAC conditions on a "closed cert" however someone on an "open" could use the gun anywere they saw as safe. Perhaps your proffesion gave the chief constable enough good reason to give you an open cert? But guidelines on "open" certs are quite strong. I am amazed and somewhat scared if the whole of North Yorks give open cert out to all new applicants. Though it seems to be a trend these days to save time on inspections? It might help if those who were doing the inspections had the know how to take the applicant out with them and ask questions of them, the old crew used to suss the guy not the land Indeed there is no "safe" land, yet i regulary seem to hear of land passed for .223 rem but not 22-250 / 17hmr but not .22lr etc which is just plain crazy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedwards1966 Posted February 9, 2012 Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) Open? or no territorial restrictions? Were land needs to be cleared for use of that calibre it is not "open" and if you used say a .223 on land only cleared for HMR you would be in breech of your FAC conditions on a "closed cert" however someone on an "open" could use the gun anywere they saw as safe. Perhaps your proffesion gave the chief constable enough good reason to give you an open cert? But guidelines on "open" certs are quite strong. I am amazed and somewhat scared if the whole of North Yorks give open cert out to all new applicants. Though it seems to be a trend these days to save time on inspections? It might help if those who were doing the inspections had the know how to take the applicant out with them and ask questions of them, the old crew used to suss the guy not the land Indeed there is no "safe" land, yet i regulary seem to hear of land passed for .223 rem but not 22-250 / 17hmr but not .22lr etc which is just plain crazy Yes, here in North Yorkshire all certificates are open. You need to have some cleared land to get your certificate, but then any land which the certificate holder considers safe can be shot with any of their firearms. I was told (by my FEO) that it's done because otherwise they'd do nothing but clear land for people, basically it's saving them huge amounts of time and letting them deal with renewals and new applications. I was granted my FAC a few months ago, .22lr and .243, and could instantly shoot it anywhere I like. I personally think it's a good idea (not just because it suits me!), I understand concerns about giving people firearms and letting them shoot anywhere, but every shot is always down to the shooter, no piece of land cleared or not is safe with a rifle if you're stupid. Some of my land is cleared but if you point any firearm from .22lr upwards it'll clear just about any piece of land you can find, all shots need to be into a backstop so I don't think clearing land for certain calibres makes much difference, if you shoot over a hill with anything it's potentially lethal and if it's into earth it'll stop anything from .22 to .50 cal. Edited February 9, 2012 by bedwards1966 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted February 9, 2012 Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 Yes, here in North Yorkshire all certificates are open. You need to have some cleared land to get your certificate, but then any land which the certificate holder considers safe can be shot with any of their firearms. I was told (by my FEO) that it's done because otherwise they'd do nothing but clear land for people, basically it's saving them huge amounts of time and letting them deal with renewals and new applications. I was granted my FAC a few months ago, .22lr and .243, and could instantly shoot it anywhere I like. I personally think it's a good idea (not just because it suits me!), I understand concerns about giving people firearms and letting them shoot anywhere, but every shot is always down to the shooter, no piece of land cleared or not is safe with a rifle if you're stupid. Some of my land is cleared but if you point any firearm from .22lr upwards it'll clear just about any piece of land you can find, all shots need to be into a backstop so I don't think clearing land for certain calibres makes much difference, if you shoot over a hill with anything it's potentially lethal and if it's into earth it'll stop anything from .22 to .50 cal. In theory your quite correct, there is no safe land only a safe shot. That said i feel better that new FAC holders get resticted only to inspected land. Its a bad thing for us all as when there is an accident there will be a lot of the proverbial hitting the fan and the misguided will be calling for more restictions on use. Practise on cleared land is no bad thing and a good half way house before compulsary training and qualification. I think its just labour saving and cost saving and the main gain is to North Yorks Police Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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