deputy dog Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 (edited) Just seen it on the BBC news, very sad indeed for the families concerned and my condolenceses goes out to them. I can see the Anti's getting all reved up now, all to ready to give their bandwagon a good airing since the Derrick Bird incident. Which will undoubtedly be brought back up an thrown into the mix. I just hope what ever measures if any brought in, will be more to do with common sense then harsh unjust laws which will put a strangle hold on our way of life. Looks like we could be in for a bit of a fight this time as the Anti's will definitly want to throw the book at us with out mercey. But i do wish when these people flip out they just take their own lives instead of a murdring a few inocents before they eventually do blow their own heads off. DD Edited January 2, 2012 by deputy dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilly Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 Well I have total sympathy with all the families concerned but, without sounding harsh, I just hope it doesn't affect my SGC application, it's with the same Force!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cant hit rabbits 123 Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 My condolances to all those effected by the incident. Its a terrible thing to happen, whether firearms related or not, as I'm sure he would have used another method if his guns weren't avalible. I couldn't believe some of the comments put by members of the public demanding the outlawing of all guns, or restricting ownership to one, or having to keep them at a designated club. One poster even said kitchen knives should be restricted! I can see a huge push from the Anti's coming, maybe seeing S2 guns moved onto S1 or a whole new system all together with even more restictions. Who knows, in a few years we could be left with only single barrel .410's and single shot .22LR rifles, with telescopes and mods banned just because they make the gun look more dangerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedwards1966 Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 Another terrible tragedy. No doubt more will be revealed, but I suspect that this is yet another case that could and should have been avoided if the police had done their job properly. Assuming it's true, anybody threatening to kill themselves should not be allowed to keep their guns, as it's rather obvious what might happen. Aside from the sad deaths, no doubt there will be more voices shouting out for tighter gun control, which may cause all of us problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katzenjammer Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 There will be a flurry of press activity and anti activity over the next few days and when it comes to inquest etc. However I do not think there will be a reopening of the review of last year as this was a lengthy and expensive enough procedure in its own right. The govt responded to the Committees recommendations in Sept 2011 and given that this committee was a Vaz led affair with the usual suspects appearing for the antis but robust presentations and defences by the likes of the BASC, the outcome and recommendations were in fact very reasoned and not as bad as everyone who followed it closely had feared. Visit the BASC site to remind yourselves please. If the Durham Constabulary should have taken positive confiscation action on the "previous incident" then no doubt that will be looked at. Remember that Durham Police already had the scandal of the FEO's taking in guns and selling them for private gain - no cover up will be allowed I am sure by the local critics some of whom were FAC/SGC holders. Cumbria got away with it imo just like Hungerdord and Dunblane! Recommendation 10 of the report covers this aspect of revocation. One recommendation includes an enforced code of practice on media bodies to stop overly sensationalising reports. Another says codification and simplification of the law but no mention of loosening it! It is recommended the police guidance on legislation is updated. I am not going to go through all of it and recommend again that you all read it yourselves and be prepared to refute false reporting or misleading comments on gun ownership or licensing or ask the representative organisations to do it for us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masterzone2 Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 Clearly you guys have been watching news I have not. All I have seen on both BBC and sky is that there were 4 deaths from gun shots And that someone in that house had legal firearms Not once has anyone said that it was the licence holder just that someone in that house had a licence to hold firearms. Well I hope the Antis don't mind the Tax rise for me to sit on the dole if they out law my firearms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katzenjammer Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 interestingly it was said that the lass who went to hospital and is now released had injuries to hand and shoulder - now that may be due to getting out of a window but it could be due to an inexperienced person using a shotgun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deejay Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 The gun laws can be tightened for all I care , If tighter laws would have prevented this from happening then I am all for it . This is not about the laws or the antis . Its about the loss of THREE innocent lives . Daz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masterzone2 Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 If History has taught us anything is tighter laws do NOTHING If that was the case then Hungerford,Dumblane,Cumbria, Rhys Jones, Raoul Moat The list goes on The 1st half are 3 would never have happened if tighter laws worked- the last are the Evidence Look around your homes (excluding any and all firearms) and there will be many instruments of murder. And note the press won't be talking about shootings regarding Illegal arms. Another note A copper has just been nicked and bailed for murder in Norfolk. And how was that (now hang on) was he Indian or is it Asian now? back to the point Shot dead My guess by an Illegal firearm. To Me IMO this is another case of police failing to do the job correctly If the antis want something done time to get up the **** of the police. Again I refuse to be punished for someone else's crime! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2bangs Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 The gun laws can be tightened for all I care , If tighter laws would have prevented this from happening then I am all for it . This is not about the laws or the antis . Its about the loss of THREE innocent lives . Daz Well said, I completely agree, a whole family has been wiped out and all most people start ranting about is the tightening of the laws and the bad press for shooters, my sympathies go to all of the family who have been devastated by this shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevelee24 Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 interestingly it was said that the lass who went to hospital and is now released had injuries to hand and shoulder - now that may be due to getting out of a window but it could be due to an inexperienced person using a shotgun! if she had been shot in the hand and shoulder cant see her being out of hospital a few hours later it was probably just from jumping from the top window Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevelee24 Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 The gun laws can be tightened for all I care , If tighter laws would have prevented this from happening then I am all for it . This is not about the laws or the antis . Its about the loss of THREE innocent lives . Daz that's one perspective though a nut case is a nut case or in some cases a completely normal person can turn like that policeman who tried to kill his family a few weeks ago. this will always happen no matter what so i think the point people are making is governments love to use things like this to punish everyone a few idiots like getting drunk to the state of unconsciousness on a weekend governments solution raise the price of alcohol for everyone thats the kind of freedom snatching that goes on these days, its not taking anything away from the sad loss that happened the other night Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricko Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 With regard to illegal firearms, I have always thought that there were 4 clear possibilities: 1) War souvenirs (inc. recent wars), although I read a book that stated that one of the ships bring troops back from the Falklands stopped outside of Dover to allow troops to sling captured weapons overboard. 2) Converted weapons, which is why I handed in 2 x Olympic .38 starting pistols last year when they were made illegal 3) Weapons from 'over the water', not everything was handed in to be put 'beyond use, 4) Stolen shotguns etc. It amazes me that the police are still recovering illegal weapons all the time, today a machine pistol recovered in Liverpool. It is hard to tighten UK gun laws any further except going for a complete ban. I feel really sorry for the family involved, it is tragic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 With regard to illegal firearms, I have always thought that there were 4 clear possibilities: 1) War souvenirs (inc. recent wars), although I read a book that stated that one of the ships bring troops back from the Falklands stopped outside of Dover to allow troops to sling captured weapons overboard. 2) Converted weapons, which is why I handed in 2 x Olympic .38 starting pistols last year when they were made illegal 3) Weapons from 'over the water', not everything was handed in to be put 'beyond use, 4) Stolen shotguns etc. It amazes me that the police are still recovering illegal weapons all the time, today a machine pistol recovered in Liverpool. It is hard to tighten UK gun laws any further except going for a complete ban. I feel really sorry for the family involved, it is tragic. You forgot about smuggling! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat g Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 The gun laws can be tightened for all I care , If tighter laws would have prevented this from happening then I am all for it . This is not about the laws or the antis . Its about the loss of THREE innocent lives . Daz Daz, The thing is tighter legislation would not prevent this kind of tragedy i'm afraid my friend. Would you care if further legislation resulted in a complete ban on private firearm ownership. I think if any further legislation prevented you from pursuing your hobby, which i'm sure you enjoy then you would care Daz. We now have some of the most stringent firearms laws in the world since the events of Hungerford,Dunblane and Cumbria. Provided these laws are followed correctly by the licensing authorities then the terrible loss of life as seen at Horden Co Durham today and indeed the past tragedies we have witnessed can be avoided. However let us not jump to conclusions at this early stage and start to look for simply "someone to blame". At the moment my thoughts are with the victims and their families and friends ATB, Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacky Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 Just so sad. R.I.P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest topshot_2k Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 News reports he tried to self harm in 2008, if so then the issue is not with gun laws but with the policing of them. There are several news stories of people being stabbed to death recently, and local to me a whole family was knifed to death. More laws wont do stop these crimes, better policing and proper punishment will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest topshot_2k Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 The gun laws can be tightened for all I care , If tighter laws would have prevented this from happening then I am all for it . This is not about the laws or the antis . Its about the loss of THREE innocent lives . Daz Get real, how would tighter laws stop it? he could have easily used a knife, hammer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klatuveradanikto Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 If History has taught us anything is tighter laws do NOTHING If that was the case then Hungerford,Dumblane,Cumbria, Rhys Jones, Raoul Moat The list goes on The 1st half are 3 would never have happened if tighter laws worked- the last are the Evidence Look around your homes (excluding any and all firearms) and there will be many instruments of murder. And note the press won't be talking about shootings regarding Illegal arms. Another note A copper has just been nicked and bailed for murder in Norfolk. And how was that (now hang on) was he Indian or is it Asian now? back to the point Shot dead My guess by an Illegal firearm. To Me IMO this is another case of police failing to do the job correctly If the antis want something done time to get up the **** of the police. Again I refuse to be punished for someone else's crime! What He Said!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david hunter Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 my heart goes out to the relatives of this terrable tradgity. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedwards1966 Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 If History has taught us anything is tighter laws do NOTHING If that was the case then Hungerford,Dumblane,Cumbria, Rhys Jones, Raoul Moat The list goes on The 1st half are 3 would never have happened if tighter laws worked- the last are the Evidence Look around your homes (excluding any and all firearms) and there will be many instruments of murder. And note the press won't be talking about shootings regarding Illegal arms. Another note A copper has just been nicked and bailed for murder in Norfolk. And how was that (now hang on) was he Indian or is it Asian now? back to the point Shot dead My guess by an Illegal firearm. To Me IMO this is another case of police failing to do the job correctly If the antis want something done time to get up the **** of the police. Again I refuse to be punished for someone else's crime! I completely agree. Although it is unclear what exactly happened in this case, and it is possible that we may have everything wrong on this, it does look like somebody with a SGC/FAC shot 3 people then thankfully himself. So far, all the shootings that have occurred with legally held guns would not have happened if the police enforced the existing laws properly. Michael Ryan was not a fit person to be issued with guns, and as a result of this 17 people died, and shotguns now have limited magazine capacity and centre fire rifles cannot be semi auto. Thomas Hamilton (Dunblane school massacre) again was not a fit person to have firearms, he was a paedophile as well as being general lowlife scum. As a result 18 people died and nobody can now have pistols. Derrick Bird had been given a suspended prison sentence for theft a few years before murdering 13 people, he was not fit to have guns either. I do not have any issues with the police checking me and others carefully before giving me a SGC/FAC, I feel much happier and safer for it. However, this appears to be the 4th incident where the person killing people should not and would not have had guns if the police did their checks properly. I'm not saying these deaths would not have happened without guns, but I do feel that the police are 100% to blame, not the laws. Regarding the rest of gun crime, all laws are effectively powerless to prevent illegal guns being used to rob/shoot people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masterzone2 Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 Just to Add I wish to Add my deepest Respects to the Victims and the family suffering from this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 (edited) I completely agree. Although it is unclear what exactly happened in this case, and it is possible that we may have everything wrong on this, it does look like somebody with a SGC/FAC shot 3 people then thankfully himself. So far, all the shootings that have occurred with legally held guns would not have happened if the police enforced the existing laws properly. Michael Ryan was not a fit person to be issued with guns, and as a result of this 17 people died, and shotguns now have limited magazine capacity and centre fire rifles cannot be semi auto. Thomas Hamilton (Dunblane school massacre) again was not a fit person to have firearms, he was a paedophile as well as being general lowlife scum. As a result 18 people died and nobody can now have pistols. Derrick Bird had been given a suspended prison sentence for theft a few years before murdering 13 people, he was not fit to have guns either. I do not have any issues with the police checking me and others carefully before giving me a SGC/FAC, I feel much happier and safer for it. However, this appears to be the 4th incident where the person killing people should not and would not have had guns if the police did their checks properly. I'm not saying these deaths would not have happened without guns, but I do feel that the police are 100% to blame, not the laws. Regarding the rest of gun crime, all laws are effectively powerless to prevent illegal guns being used to rob/shoot people. I agree with most of what you say but Bird? There is and was nothing in the rule book disqualifying him because of a suspended sentence only an actual custodial sentence. Where do you draw the line on this. I'm sure there would be a few members on here that would lose their privilages if cautions/suspended sentences/fines/community service were all barriers.. Bird was convicted (IIRC) of stealing from his employer, that could mean a million quid, it could (and has been in some cases where the firm was trying to get rid) mean a ream of paper! nothing violent and I bet there are more than a few out there that have at some point been guilty of the same!! The Police in Cumbria hadn't neglected thier duty of care as had the forces in the cases of ryan and hamilton. My thoughts and prayers are with those involved Edited January 2, 2012 by Vipa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedwards1966 Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 I agree with most of what you say but Bird? There is and was nothing in the rule book disqualifying him because of a suspended sentence only an actual custodial sentence. Where do you draw the line on this. I'm sure there would be a few members on here that would lose their privilages if cautions/suspended sentences/fines/community service were all barriers.. Bird was convicted (IIRC) of stealing from his employer, that could mean a million quid, it could (and has been in some cases where the firm was trying to get rid) mean a ream of paper! nothing violent and I bet there are more than a few out there that have at some point been guilty of the same!! The Police in Cumbria hadn't neglected thier duty of care as had the forces in the cases of ryan and hamilton. My thoughts and prayers are with those involved I take your point about Bird, but in my opinion a suspended prison sentence for theft is a good reason for concern and I feel that the police should have given him a few more years before allowing him a SGC, never mind FAC. I feel sorry for the victims, and even more so for their families and friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bongodriver Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 (edited) My thoughts are with everybody affected by all the awfull events I've heard since christmas eve, what the hell has happened this christmas? it's been like a killing frenzy. Edited January 2, 2012 by bongodriver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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