Daveo26 Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 Has anyone every heard of or seen a FAC with the condition "For self-defence purposes"? I have been told by a mate of mine that along with the usual "The (rifle/sound moderator/firearms/ammunition) shall be used for shooting (Named Principal Quarry Species) and any other lawful quarry, on land deemed suitable by the chief officer of police for the area where the land is situated, and for zeroing on ranges, over which the holder has lawful authority to shoot." He read For self-defence purposes too. Im having a tough time believing this one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smig4373 Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 REALLY... Id take that with a pinch of salt mate... :hmm: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pheasant Feeder Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 Possibly in Northern Ireland but not on the mainland mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daveo26 Posted January 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 What copper in his right mind would encourage someone to use a gun for self defence? NONE I thinking its a load of BS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P~MX Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 Not in Northern Ireland either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bradders Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 The current Home Office guidelines actually state that personal protection or self defence does not constitute "good reason"..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin128 Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 Guidance to the Police 2002... "Firearms for personal protection 13.72 Applications for the grant of a firearm certificate for the applicant’s, or another’s, protection, or that of premises, should be refused on the grounds that firearms are not an acceptable means of protection in Great Britain. It has been the view of successive Governments for many years that the private possession and carriage of firearms for personal protection is likely to lead to an increase in levels of violence. This principle should be maintained in the case of applications from representatives of banks and firms protecting valuables or large quantities of money, or from private security guards and bodyguards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cockercas Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 with modern technology and all, couldn't you ask him to snap a pic on his phone and send it to you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimlet Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 I know someone with a pistol, granted for the humane dispatch of injured animals, and added to the conditions is "and for the defence of human life." But whether that's defence against an animal or human assailant I don't know. I wouldn't like to test that one in court. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 I know someone with a pistol, granted for the humane dispatch of injured animals, and added to the conditions is "and for the defence of human life." But whether that's defence against an animal or human assailant I don't know. I wouldn't like to test that one in court. Surely it doesnt matter if it's a wounded stag or a person with a machete? It's still defence of human life very strange though. Unless the cert holder was ex undercover police or person who's life had been threatened (some ex govt ministers?) i cant see it myself but it's no different to the other conditions just rarer (can he still use it at a range tho ) I read on another forum about .410 shot pistols for vermin used in around buildings couldn't believe that either. May have been a none UK cert? There was a bit on "Tim Shaw on Guns" where he interviewed an RFD in NI who did say some private individuals have pistols for protection.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notsosureshot Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 In NI certain individuals are allowed such conditions, by my understanding. People determined to be at risk, such as politicians and their body guards etc, police informants and so on. England also allows for firearm self protection in very specific circumstances. Armed guarding is allowed in England and Wales, but normally you would not expect to find an armed guard who actually needed an FAC to perform their role. It depends who it was and where it was. Not entirely unbelievable in itself. Certainly plausible for an individual in Northern Ireland with a certain background and/or specific identified risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 Not in Northern Ireland either Yes, PPWs ARE allowed in Northern Ireland, but it's the only part of the UK where they are. And the PSNI would like to stop it, but can't until dissident republicanism stops completely. Living there in the late 80s, I new a Guinness rep who had a PPW because of all the cash he carried, the criteria now is much stricter. See PSNI Policy directive 09/06 'PERSONAL PROTECTION WEAPON POLICY' The Chief Constable acknowledges the positive obligation to take all reasonable measures to obviate the risk to an individual’s life where the police know, or ought to know, that there is a real and immediate risk.© Prior to the implementation of this Policy Directive a general threat category existed due to the level of terrorist threat directed at persons employed in certain occupations within Northern Ireland. Any individual who was employed, or had recently been employed in one of the included occupations was deemed to be at real and immediate risk and thus ‘good reason’ (a statutory requirement of the legislation) to possess a Personal Protection Weapon (PPW) was established. In light of the more stable political and security environment the Chief Constable is committed to reviewing the grant of firearm certificates (FAC) for PPWs and moving towards the situation where these will only be authorised where there is a ‘verifiable specific risk’ to the life of an individual and that the possession of a firearm is a reasonable, proportionate and necessary measure to protect their life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) Yes, PPWs ARE allowed in Northern Ireland, but it's the only part of the UK where they are. And the PSNI would like to stop it, but can't until dissident republicanism stops completely. Living there in the late 80s, I new a Guinness rep who had a PPW because of all the cash he carried, the criteria now is much stricter. See PSNI Policy directive 09/06 'PERSONAL PROTECTION WEAPON POLICY' The Chief Constable acknowledges the positive obligation to take all reasonable measures to obviate the risk to an individuals life where the police know, or ought to know, that there is a real and immediate risk.© Prior to the implementation of this Policy Directive a general threat category existed due to the level of terrorist threat directed at persons employed in certain occupations within Northern Ireland. Any individual who was employed, or had recently been employed in one of the included occupations was deemed to be at real and immediate risk and thus good reason (a statutory requirement of the legislation) to possess a Personal Protection Weapon (PPW) was established. In light of the more stable political and security environment the Chief Constable is committed to reviewing the grant of firearm certificates (FAC) for PPWs and moving towards the situation where these will only be authorised where there is a verifiable specific risk to the life of an individual and that the possession of a firearm is a reasonable, proportionate and necessary measure to protect their life. You are well informed. I knew a lot of guys who worked on or in security bases ect who had PPW-S but they are a lot stricter on handing them out now. Edited January 13, 2012 by ordnance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 This would be a bit special anywhere in the UK! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) Ok, so given that it is possible in very specific circumstances what are the chances of someone who needs a PPW actually wanting a rifle? If I needed a gun to defend myself 24/7 I'm sure as hell I wouldn't choose my Tikka 595 to do the job! Edited January 13, 2012 by njc110381 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haytime Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 PPW's will be around in Ni for a long time. You would be very surprised by the amount of people in NI who are still authorised to carry a PPW. These are not military people btw. Yes, PSNI new conditions are different from the RUC days, but a scary fact is, there are more incidents with military people with PPW's than civilians The part about a condition for self defence on FAC, your friend is telling you a little porky pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 I think would like to see that condition in writing on the certificate before I believed it rather than just being told by a mate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daveo26 Posted January 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 I know someone with a pistol, granted for the humane dispatch of injured animals, and added to the conditions is "and for the defence of human life." But whether that's defence against an animal or human assailant I don't know. I wouldn't like to test that one in court. Thats what I was told it said on the FAC my mate saw That makes more sense now, He must have a pistol for humane dispatch. I did'nt believe him but its not for use against people its ment for angry bulls and dogs perhaps? Has anyone every heard of or seen a FAC with the condition "For self-defence purposes"? I have been told by a mate of mine that along with the usual "The (rifle/sound moderator/firearms/ammunition) shall be used for shooting (Named Principal Quarry Species) and any other lawful quarry, on land deemed suitable by the chief officer of police for the area where the land is situated, and for zeroing on ranges, over which the holder has lawful authority to shoot." He read For self-defence purposes too. Im having a tough time believing this one I think would like to see that condition in writing on the certificate before I believed it rather than just being told by a mate! I didnt believe him Frenchie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.I.A Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 If I needed a gun to defend myself 24/7 I'm sure as hell I wouldn't choose my Tikka 595 to do the job! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimlet Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 As above. I have seen my mate's ticket but it was an old one, before the post-Dunblane handgun ban. He still has the pistol. Whether he still has that wording on his current ticket I don't know. I'll ask him if the subject comes up. I do know the weapon was granted for humane dispatch as he is a professional deer stalker who's worked for the Forestry commision and was a government appointed slaughterman- if that's the right term- during the foot and mouth outbreak. I'm sure it wasn't a personal protection weapon. Though he is ex military. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 I suspect a lot of people are confusing the old style generic wording (which is still around on some fac's) for expanding ammo which all field shooters have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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