humperdingle Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 Lack of available funds, and the intention of just "Dabbling", in reloading, made me purchase a Lee Loader for my .22-250. I think to buy everything to reload a couple of hundred rounds cost me around £100. Accuracy was spot on, and for the amount spent, well worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprags Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 if you spend a couple of grand on expensive reloading gear you will be able to have a one hole group Harnser . Unless I've missed the post I cant see where anyone said they have spent "a couple of grand on reloading gear" What is wrong with people wanting to improve their accuracy? Surely the more accurate the rifle and shooter the better that is for the quarry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 Unless I've missed the post I cant see where anyone said they have spent "a couple of grand on reloading gear" What is wrong with people wanting to improve their accuracy? Surely the more accurate the rifle and shooter the better that is for the quarry. I would be confident to bet that 95% of the persons who use centrefire rifles on here could put a first shot bullet in a 2" circle if you asked them too at 100/200 yards... Shooting a ragged hole isn't that big a deal when foxing/stalking... I think the point Harsner is making is that most "standard" rifle/scope/factory ammo combos will shoot a tight group. Regards, Gixer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprags Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 I would be confident to bet that 95% of the persons who use centrefire rifles on here could put a first shot bullet in a 2" circle if you asked them too at 100/200 yards... Shooting a ragged hole isn't that big a deal when foxing/stalking... I think the point Harsner is making is that most "standard" rifle/scope/factory ammo combos will shoot a tight group. Regards, Gixer I agree to a degree and I am not going to be drawn it to a petty argument. I like to think that more accurate the rifle & shooter the better that is for the quarry. Just my opinion but a 2" group @ 100yds isn't a tight group. Each to their own and at the end of the day if what you are doing is working for you and your chosen quarry then you're doing ok. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 I would be confident to bet that 95% of the persons who use centrefire rifles on here could put a first shot bullet in a 2" circle if you asked them too at 100/200 yards... If it were possible to put that to the task i would certainly take your money on that one. In deed they might all claim it but i doubt even 1-20 could garantee a first cold shot into a 2" circle @200 yds. 2" groups @ 200yds from a rested stance are completely different. calling and keeping to 1 moa at 200yds? thats harder than it sounds especially in any sort of wind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 Unless I've missed the post I cant see where anyone said they have spent "a couple of grand on reloading gear" What is wrong with people wanting to improve their accuracy? Surely the more accurate the rifle and shooter the better that is for the quarry. Sprags , there is nothing wrong with improving your accuracy ,every rifleman should do it . How far do you need to take this accuracy thing . I am very happy with my rifle ammo combo ,"M.O.A. " at 100 yards . I have never shot a rifle that I couldn't tune to M.O.A. at 100 yards . Thats my yard stick that I have stuck to over the years of shooting . As for the couple of grands worth of loading gear ,you have missed a couple of threads from this afternoon that have been edited by the moderators .I might just add all my loading is done with Lee gear ,which is what this thread is all about . Harnser . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cockercas Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 sprags ive forgot what i was going to write now dammed avatar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprags Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 Sprags , there is nothing wrong with improving your accuracy ,every rifleman should do it . How far do you need to take this accuracy thing . I am very happy with my rifle ammo combo ,"M.O.A. " at 100 yards . I have never shot a rifle that I couldn't tune to M.O.A. at 100 yards . Thats my yard stick that I have stuck to over the years of shooting . As for the couple of grands worth of loading gear ,you have missed a couple of threads from this afternoon that have been edited by the moderators .I might just add all my loading is done with Lee gear ,which is what this thread is all about . Harnser . Fair play to you, you've found your 'comfort zone' with the "M.O.A. at 100yards", I know what you mean but for those that are unsure M.O.A. at 100yds is the same as M.O.A. at 1000yds, the range doesn't matter , MOA is exactly that.....MOA whether it be 65yds, 100yds or 1000yds. Your 'yard stick' works for you so stick with it Thats what I meant when I said "Each to their own and at the end of the day if what you are doing is working for you and your chosen quarry then you're doing ok." I am not going to be drawn into a **** swinging competition( not directed at you by the way) so I'll leave this as it is. Regards sprags ive forgot what i was going to write now dammed avatar :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 I would be confident to bet that 95% of the persons who use centrefire rifles on here could put a first shot bullet in a 2" circle if you asked them too at 100/200 yards... If it were possible to put that to the task i would certainly take your money on that one. In deed they might all claim it but i doubt even 1-20 could garantee a first cold shot into a 2" circle @200 yds. 2" groups @ 200yds from a rested stance are completely different. calling and keeping to 1 moa at 200yds? thats harder than it sounds especially in any sort of wind Maybe I should have said 2" at 100, I'll give you that, but most could do it, and furthermore most people could pick up most other peoples rifles and hit a target too.... I think the obsession with "cloverleaf" groups gets a bit over the top, I think I'm more impressed by the experienced people who over the years have picked up a rifle put 3 or 4 rounds onto a target and then handed the rifle back with a casual "rifle shoots fine".... Regards, Gixer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toka_shigazu Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 aldi doing their digital calipers again this week! atb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedwards1966 Posted February 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 OK, thanks for your help everyone. I've decided that I'll buy the Lee classic loader, I'd like a press but after a bit of time on you-tube I've decided that a classic one will do the job fine for me, I'm in no rush to make hundreds per hour - or rather saving some time isn't worth me spending more money! After being pointed in the direction of US eBay, I've found one at £29, which seems well worth a go (Henry Krank does not list it on their site). I expect that if for some reason I can't get on with it I'm sure I could easily pass it on. I'll get a set of powder scales too, I'll keep my eyes open as they seem to be a similar price, perhaps I'll get one slightly cheaper if I wait. Looking on what's been said on here the accuracy should be fine, as I'm mainly looking into the cost savings (though I'm sort of looking forward to giving it a go now) any accuracy improvements over factory ammo is a nice extra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coyotemaster Posted February 11, 2012 Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 Henry Krank sell them for £24.95. I used one of those to reload .308 for about ten years. But its probably better to go a little upmarket and get a lee press kit. £32 a box is a bit steep. I think I would take the occasional drive to Leeds if it were me and buy a couple of hundred rounds of privi at a time. You could be there and back on a Saturday morning and its a straight road. If you don't fancy driving think about a National Express Coach. My student son goes all over the place on them and they are great. I wasn't really aware of them before he started using them. He can go from London to Bristol for around a tenner. If you book in advance. (I've just looked on the National Express Web site. Scarborough to Leeds coach station about £6 each way) Even if you only do it the once you will have a nice stock of cases to reload, but frankly a drive once a year strikes me as a better option. Gets it over and done with. Reloading is a lot of messing about when you first start, if your hearts not in reloading don't consider it. Compared to buying Privi there is not really a cost advantage. You are always buying more and more gear, first you buy some loading gear, then you need some scales, then you need a tumbler, then you need a trimmer etc Lots of people have to do a long drive these days to get ammo. My preferred ammo supplier is over 40 miles away. Take the wife or the girlfriend (best not to take both) and have a day out in Leeds. Big tip though, phone before you go to make sure they have what you want, supplies are variable. I could see how the wife/girlfriend issue could lead to a VERY expensive trip if entertained simultaneously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oly Posted February 11, 2012 Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) I sold all my expensive redding competition reloading gear a few years back. I have recently got back into reloading with all lee gear including their hand press. Most of the gear was bought secondhand but my accuracy Is good as with the expensive gear, 0.4in at 100m consistently (in 223 and 308). Once I hit this level of accuracy I must admit I stopped bothering to find better through load development as it's good enough for my needs. Ok so the hand press doesn't feel quite as nice as others, but it works well and even if it breaks and lee won't fix it, for peanuts you can readily buy another. But if you go through two in a lifetime I would be surprised. Yes you may be able to get another 0.2in with more load development and possibly with "better" gear, but is it worth the extra £400 that my old gear cost...not for me. Plus don't forget that your rifle also has to be top notch to be able to shoot that accurately consistently, so budget at least a couple of £k for that, plus budget for all the extra ammunition that you'll use in load development, neck tension, bullet seating etc etc on the range (rather than hunting), then just make sure that the "nut behind the butt" is up to the job too. I'm not saying I wouldn't like an expensive set up again, and I would probably go down the wilson arbour route, but I can't justify the cost when lee gear is so good at the price. Plus I will now always reload simply as I prefer being out in the field hunting to being on the range testing the next batch of reloads. Edited February 11, 2012 by Oly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitloop Posted February 11, 2012 Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 fruitloop are you using the beam scales from lee ? if so can you not just set the scales up properly as per instructions using your checkweight and lock it off for perfect weights everytime sorry if i have read your post wrong . once you have it set up and its used in the same place it should read properly,atb wayne yes it is the lee beam and was is set to the book locked off then tested with a head or 10 and it went off the scale so reset the scale but if it is the heads you'd think nosler and hornaday should get the waight closer also put the head on my digi scales and the heads came in at +- 0.1gr but the lee beam drooped like a stone also i find that the beam sticks if you are not carefull Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted February 11, 2012 Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 yes it is the lee beam and was is set to the book locked off then tested with a head or 10 and it went off the scale so reset the scale but if it is the heads you'd think nosler and hornaday should get the waight closer also put the head on my digi scales and the heads came in at +- 0.1gr but the lee beam drooped like a stone also i find that the beam sticks if you are not carefull It was the sticking of the beam that ended it for me with the lee scale, just had to touch it with your finger each time to check. Saying that I'm sure that the lee scale will give better consistancy than measureing volume. I invested in RCBS scales for £90 and they occasionally stuck so change them, the new one does the same now and then, wonder if its a humidity thing. What I do now is set my lee powder disc measure slightly under weight and finish with my powder trickler,it brings the scale up everytime and have the system down to a fine art now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonc30 Posted February 11, 2012 Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 See this thread from The Stalking Directory http://www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk/showthread.php/8238-Reloading-on-a-Budget It's this that introduced me to the Classic loader and I too bought one from the states in .243. I already had calipers and some accurate scales which I use for work. I also bought a lee case trimmer which i haven't used yet, the lee reloading manual, Lee primer pocket cleaner and a set of Lee powder dippers. First I loaded 10 rounds using just the basic kit, my once fired ppu brass and the col set roughly the same as the factory ppu rounds. I practiced my dipping technique before starting and got all my charges within .01gn. These shot comfortably into 1.25" at 100m of a rolled up sleeping bag. Then I loaded a series of increased charge rounds using the lee dipper set in various combinations to get the desired loads. After shooting these I settled on the best load that used a single dipper in order to avoid any mis loading. An alternative would be to modify a dipper using small cardboard discs stuck in the to reduce the volume the desired amount. Since then I have loaded just under 200 rounds over the last 12months all of which shoot well under 1" at 100m. In order to make the reloading process as straight forward as possible I always keep on top of my brass. So as soon as I have 20 empties I decap, clean, resize and prime them. That way if I need some rounds loading it takes less than 1/2 an hour to load 40. I have no doubt that presses etc can produce better rounds but my Lee Classic Loader does everything I need it to do. I will eventually buy a press etc as I like buying new things for shooting but I'm happy for now Good luck with your reloading Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitloop Posted February 11, 2012 Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 i use the powder thrower to put the powder in the case then trickle the powder out and put back in the thrower what i dont need Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitloop Posted February 11, 2012 Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) See this thread from The Stalking Directory http://www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk/showthread.php/8238-Reloading-on-a-Budget It's this that introduced me to the Classic loader and I too bought one from the states in .243. I already had calipers and some accurate scales which I use for work. I also bought a lee case trimmer which i haven't used yet, the lee reloading manual, Lee primer pocket cleaner and a set of Lee powder dippers. First I loaded 10 rounds using just the basic kit, my once fired ppu brass and the col set roughly the same as the factory ppu rounds. I practiced my dipping technique before starting and got all my charges within .01gn. These shot comfortably into 1.25" at 100m of a rolled up sleeping bag. Then I loaded a series of increased charge rounds using the lee dipper set in various combinations to get the desired loads. After shooting these I settled on the best load that used a single dipper in order to avoid any mis loading. An alternative would be to modify a dipper using small cardboard discs stuck in the to reduce the volume the desired amount. Since then I have loaded just under 200 rounds over the last 12months all of which shoot well under 1" at 100m. In order to make the reloading process as straight forward as possible I always keep on top of my brass. So as soon as I have 20 empties I decap, clean, resize and prime them. That way if I need some rounds loading it takes less than 1/2 an hour to load 40.I have no doubt that presses etc can produce better rounds but my Lee Classic Loader does everything I need it to do. I will eventually buy a press etc as I like buying new things for shooting but I'm happy for now Good luck with your reloading if you annele the brass it will help in the brass life and accuracy as you resize and shoot a load it work hardens and splits plus difering neck tension if you pm ackley he is very helpful on this subject Edited February 11, 2012 by fruitloop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted February 11, 2012 Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) Here's an interesting piece on accuracy... I would say it describes some on here to a T.... The odd thing is it was written by the very person who our resident "expert" constantly seems to quote as an "expert" when he starts the inevitable arguments with everybody in all the CF threads.. All the "old timers" as they are sometimes called by the resident "expert" should be pleased with this as it backs up what they and I have been saying all along about the accuracy required and being acceptable for a Hunting rifle. And before anyone says it - Chuck Hawk is WELL aware of modern ballistics and equipment... http://www.chuckhawks.com/practical_accuracy.htm Regards, Guxer Edited February 11, 2012 by gixer1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cockercas Posted February 11, 2012 Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 Here's an interesting piece on accuracy... I would say it describes some on here to a T.... The odd thing is it was written by the very person who our resident "expert" constantly seems to quote as an "expert" when he starts the inevitable arguments with everybody in all the CF threads.. All the "old timers" as they are sometimes called by the resident "expert" should be pleased with this as it backs up what they and I have been saying all along about the accuracy required and being acceptable for a Hunting rifle. And before anyone says it - Chuck Hawk is WELL aware of modern ballistics and equipment... http://www.chuckhawks.com/practical_accuracy.htm Regards, Guxer to many beers??? good read Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackley Posted February 11, 2012 Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 Here's an interesting piece on accuracy... I would say it describes some on here to a T.... The odd thing is it was written by the very person who our resident "expert" constantly seems to quote as an "expert" when he starts the inevitable arguments with everybody in all the CF threads.. All the "old timers" as they are sometimes called by the resident "expert" should be pleased with this as it backs up what they and I have been saying all along about the accuracy required and being acceptable for a Hunting rifle. And before anyone says it - Chuck Hawk is WELL aware of modern ballistics and equipment... http://www.chuckhawks.com/practical_accuracy.htm Regards, Guxer cracking link must have taken you ages to find it its sums up nothing really only that if your happy to shoot 1 MOA thats fine,BUT some poeople want better or is this wrong just because 1 MOA is acceptable in fact 4 MOA is accepted at 100 yards. depends on what you want as an individual but please dont tell people its OK to be satified with it as some people want better. one question a yes or no will do,is it wrong to try and better yourself in your chosen sport just likje any game shooter they strive to hit longer and faster birds,is this wrong or do we all have to stay at the same level just beacsue the "old timers" say thats all the hight your need ?? same applies to rifle shooting, by the way I have "NEVER" proclaimed to be an expert so please refrain from trying to be funny by saying such things,beleive it or not some people do want to better themself and there equipment,if they didnt they would be all like you and few others,no offence ment by the way but as Chuck Hawks agrees "only accurate rifle are interesting" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted February 11, 2012 Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 cracking link must have taken you ages to find it its sums up nothing really only that if your happy to shoot 1 MOA thats fine,BUT some poeople want better or is this wrong just because 1 MOA is acceptable in fact 4 MOA is accepted at 100 yards. depends on what you want as an individual but please dont tell people its OK to be satified with it as some people want better. one question a yes or no will do,is it wrong to try and better yourself in your chosen sport just likje any game shooter they strive to hit longer and faster birds,is this wrong or do we all have to stay at the same level just beacsue the "old timers" say thats all the hight your need ?? same applies to rifle shooting, by the way I have "NEVER" proclaimed to be an expert so please refrain from trying to be funny by saying such things,beleive it or not some people do want to better themself and there equipment,if they didnt they would be all like you and few others,no offence ment by the way but as Chuck Hawks agrees "only accurate rifle are interesting" Sarcasm is.... Look, unbelievably you've already admitted to making a mistake today; can't you just settle for that one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackley Posted February 11, 2012 Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 Sarcasm is.... Look, unbelievably you've already admitted to making a mistake today; can't you just settle for that one? I have no idea what yout on about,and you say I cant grasp the English language I think some people should look in the mirror please show me where i have made a mistake as Steve Wonder would also like to see that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted February 11, 2012 Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 cracking link must have taken you ages to find it its sums up nothing really only that if your happy to shoot 1 MOA thats fine,BUT some poeople want better or is this wrong just because 1 MOA is acceptable in fact 4 MOA is accepted at 100 yards. depends on what you want as an individual but please dont tell people its OK to be satified with it as some people want better. one question a yes or no will do,is it wrong to try and better yourself in your chosen sport just likje any game shooter they strive to hit longer and faster birds,is this wrong or do we all have to stay at the same level just beacsue the "old timers" say thats all the hight your need ?? same applies to rifle shooting, by the way I have "NEVER" proclaimed to be an expert so please refrain from trying to be funny by saying such things,beleive it or not some people do want to better themself and there equipment,if they didnt they would be all like you and few others,no offence ment by the way but as Chuck Hawks agrees "only accurate rifle are interesting" Who said I was referring to you? So you must by your own admission think you are an arrogant ***...and before you say it - I would be happy to say that to your face if you are as arrogant in person... It does not say that some people are happy to settle with certain results, it plainly says that 4" is acceptable for some calibers and 2" for others etc... The original post was meant to show people newly starting out that you will always get some lunatics on forums bangin on about how "you should get X, Y or Z results" or "throw it in the bin if it's more that a ragged hole....which is tripe.. I cannot be bothered with the usual ackley drivel - read into the article what you will...and take from it what you want.... Regards, Gixer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted February 11, 2012 Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 to many beers??? good read Unfortunately not...full of the cold or flu... :( bloody little germ factories these kids! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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