.22lr high velocity or .17hmr

[Schmoo]

Hi I am on a budget I had originally planed to get a semi .22 for day shooting subs, another .22 bolt for night sub work and a .17 hmr for longer range rabbits and sitting crows.

I was wondering would a cz452 in .22lr be my best choice if I was to use it sometimes with subs when noise is an issue and re zero it and run hv rounds thru it when distance is an issue.

I had the idea of using the subs for lamping and general day work out to 60-70 yds. And the hmr was going to be my long range gun for day work, all on rabbits or sitting crows.

Would it be a cheaper option to have one rifle and just run subs then hv rounds thru it, or am I going to save nothing having bought .22lr hv rounds and used 5 every time to re zero, will it be inaccurate with hv, will it give much extra distance over the subs. Im not trying to re start the old, whats better .22 or .17 hmr, im just wondering if it may be an option for me under these cirvumstances ?

Sorry if this has been spoken about in the past, I could not find it when I searched.

Thanks Schmoo.

[Dekers]

HV in .22lr always suffers accuracy issues, the Best HV I have found for either of my .22lr's is AE 5022, but it is Solid.

 

Back in the day I used to run Magtech subs zeroed at 60 yards which gave CCI Velocitors a 100 yard zero as close as didn't matter, so no need to re zero every time. The .22lr is a dedicated sub tool these days, if I need something different I use my HMR or WMR etc!

 

You will have to access what you really want/need, a HMR knocks spots of any .22LR HV in terms of power, accuracy, range, but they are also more expensive and noisy.

[al4x]

get the HMR first IMHO unless noise is a serious issue it will do everything. Yes cost is a bit more but you can buy a fair few rounds for the cost of a lr mod scope mounts etc etc you'll shoot everything from 0-150 yards job done. Most people round here rarely take their .22 out once they have an HMR you'll get the die hard fans but shoot them back to back and I know which you'll find more interesting

[Thedeerman]

If you are on a budget, just get a .22 with a half decent mil dot scope and learn your dots and distances. You will hit rabbits well out past 100 yards with this. I'm still learning the full potential of the .22, its too easy to use the HMR on those 90-110 yard rabbits.

 

I personally wouldnt bother with HV rounds, I dont find them accurate in my rifle.

[sixhills 69]

I love my Hmr but around live stock a .22LR comes to its own and at night if you are going to change from sub's to HV you will need to re-zero.A lot of hassel and use of ammo if you ask me. stick to what you feel safe shooting

[bedwards1966]

If you're going to have the crack of a supersonic round, I'd suggest a .17 as it will be more accurate (HV .22 rounds can be inaccurate), flatter shooting/greater distances and more power.

I personally would not want to have to re-zero to use different rounds either, too much faffing round in my view, however it's not impossible that they'll work without changing the zero, and you may not have accuracy problems.

 

I'd suggest putting in for both, buy a .22 and get a few HV rounds, if they don't need re-zeroing and are accurate then consider staying with it, if it's not good enough then buy a .17 too. All that'll cost you is a box of HV rounds to play with to allow you to make up your mind!

[Colster]

Personally I'd say you need both rather than expect one gun to do both jobs. I had a similar idea when I bought my LR, I thought I could use subs for lamping, HV's for longer range laying up and CB Longs for shorter range when I wanted less power.... didn't work - I found both the HV and the CB Longs to be wildly inaccurate. Ended up buying an HMR and a FAC Air.

 

That said, with practice you should still be able to push the LR out beyond 60yards but if you are planning more long range than short and you don't mind the cost of the ammo and the noise, get an HMR.

 

If I could only have one gun it would probably be an LR but it would be a close decision between that and the HMR. I intended to use my LR for lamping and the HMR for summer time laying up but the HMR does come out quite a bit for lamping.

[TaxiDriver]

I found my CZ455 in 22lr zeroed with subs at 65yrds shoots about 3" higher with HV rounds like CCI Stingers at 1640fps

But the stingers are SO NOISY, Noisier I think than the only 17hmr I've seen in action.

[cooter]

If you are on a budget, just get a .22 with a half decent mil dot scope and learn your dots and distances. You will hit rabbits well out past 100 yards with this. I'm still learning the full potential of the .22, its too easy to use the HMR on those 90-110 yard rabbits.

 

 

Good advice with or without a tight budget.

 

An HMR has it's place but, a well shot .22LR with a decent mil dot scope is an incredible tool and very cheap to run.

[JR1960]

Good advice with or without a tight budget.

 

An HMR has it's place but, a well shot .22LR with a decent mil dot scope is an incredible tool and very cheap to run.

+1

[Schmoo]

Thank you guys for all your advice.

I.will get the .22lr first use subs and see how I get on. Once the bank balance allows get myself a .17hmr too.

Any ideas on rifle choice ? I have been looking at the cz452 or brno mod 2, like the look of the savage and the ruger 10/22 also.

Schmoo.

[JR1960]

Anschutz 1415? Had mine a long time now, love it.

[sixhills 69]

Cz's are a good work horse and i find mine very accurate i find my semi auto is not as good at long range and you have to tink that a semi auto uses the power from the fired round to force the bolt backwards causing more reciol and slightley less accurate than a bolt action rifle

[39TDS]

CZ are very good but I would have bolt action over semi. The accuracy is generally a lot better.

There is little advantage with a semi anyway IMO. You just end up using more shots.

 

If you get one gun and stick with it you will be able to shoot rabbits at 100yds+ with subs anyway.

I have shot rabbits many times at 120yds with a BRNO mod 2 using Winchester subs. Not because I am a military trained sniper, simply because I have had my gun an awful long time and know what it does.

[Catweazle]

I find 22LR Subs to be hard work at anything approaching 100yds, the HMR is much easier.

[Schmoo]

I would like to end up with 2 x .22lr one in semi for day work, one set up for night work in bolt and a .17hmr for long range stuff.

All depends of funds though, will settle for a .22 bolt first and take it from there, but would imagine the .17 hmr will be next on the shopping list.

Schmoo

[Gimlet]

I would like to end up with 2 x .22lr one in semi for day work, one set up for night work in bolt and a .17hmr for long range stuff.

All depends of funds though, will settle for a .22 bolt first and take it from there, but would imagine the .17 hmr will be next on the shopping list.

Schmoo

 

I can't see you'll need a pair of .22s. If you want a day and night pairing put NV on a .22 and keep an HMR with a decent scope for day use. I use this set up and it covers everything. Avoid changing ammo and faffing about with rezeroing, and as has been said, I really wouldn't bother with a semi. They're good fun for plinking but there's no advantage for rabbit shooting though several drawbacks such as accuracy, jams and clanky reloading noise. Much more useful is a smooth bolt action with a 10 shot mag.

If you go with the .22 as a dedicated night shooter, get thoroughly familiar with it in daylight before you go to NV. Or lamping for that matter. Range estimation at night is much more difficult than in daylight. And when you get your HMR don't waste your scope budget on high mag or illuminated reticles. Standing crows are easy targets to see but most of your rabbit bags at dusk will be taken in the last 15 minutes of light. For that you need a crisp image and excellent light gathering. If you have high mag you'll have dialled it down anyway to keep shooting when the light goes.

[Schmoo]

I can't see you'll need a pair of .22s. If you want a day and night pairing put NV on a .22 and keep an HMR with a decent scope for day use. I use this set up and it covers everything. Avoid changing ammo and faffing about with rezeroing, and as has been said, I really wouldn't bother with a semi. They're good fun for plinking but there's no advantage for rabbit shooting though several drawbacks such as accuracy, jams and clanky reloading noise. Much more useful is a smooth bolt action with a 10 shot mag.

If you go with the .22 as a dedicated night shooter, get thoroughly familiar with it in daylight before you go to NV. Or lamping for that matter. Range estimation at night is much more difficult than in daylight. And when you get your HMR don't waste your scope budget on high mag or illuminated reticles. Standing crows are easy targets to see but most of your rabbit bags at dusk will be taken in the last 15 minutes of light. For that you need a crisp image and excellent light gathering. If you have high mag you'll have dialled it down anyway to keep shooting when the light goes.

What scope would you use on the day hmr, I have a 3-9 50 and a 6-24 40 tbey are not mega money scopes but not plastic chinese ones.

Or will I need to invest in a decent optic for the hmr, I dread to think what the nv scope will.cost me !!!!

I do tend to have my scopes on hi mag, even on my air rifle at 40yds I have it on 9 to 12, it just makes it easier for me to see if I am holding the rifle steady, pkus I dont think my eyes are that good !

Thanks for that Schmoo.

[cooter]

An HMR is very flat shooting.

I found that it was well suited to a 30 X 30 ret, something like a WTC, but if you like high mag anything 6 - 24 will be enough.

[Schmoo]

An HMR is very flat shooting.

I found that it was well suited to a 30 X 30 ret, something like a WTC, but if you like high mag anything 6 - 24 will be enough.

Hopefully one of the two scopes I already have should do the trick for the hmr.

I will use the .22 at night possibly with a nv unit of some kind, can a nv scope be used during the day or is it a dedicated darkness unit only, dont want to faff about having to take it off if I use the .22 during the day.

Schmoo.

[Gimlet]

What scope would you use on the day hmr, I have a 3-9 50 and a 6-24 40 tbey are not mega money scopes but not plastic chinese ones.

Or will I need to invest in a decent optic for the hmr, I dread to think what the nv scope will.cost me !!!!

I do tend to have my scopes on hi mag, even on my air rifle at 40yds I have it on 9 to 12, it just makes it easier for me to see if I am holding the rifle steady, pkus I dont think my eyes are that good !

Thanks for that Schmoo.

 

I have a Hawke 3-12X50 on my HMR but its only a stop-gap. The mag is ample. I never go higher than 10 in the field and 12 for zeroing. But the light gathering isn't good enough. In the last minutes of light I'm spotting rabbits at 150 yds with my Steiner bins but can't find them at all in the scope. The bins at £400 are at the lower end of decent and it is reasonable to have an HMR scope that can keep up. On my .222 I have a Duralyt 3-12X50 and out to 200 yds I can shoot everything the bins can spot until they both give up. So I would say that a duralyt would make an excellent HMR scope. That's where mine will go when I've saved for a quality vari-focus for the triple.

Duralyts are £600. I have a Meopta R1 on my .308 which has equally good light gathering. R1s are dearer still but a Meopro 3-12X50 would make a good HMR scope. They're about £380 and Meoptas in general have very good light gathering. S&Bs are just as good and make good second hand buys.

A lot of people will say get an MTC. I can't comment, I've never had one. But high mag and vari-focus cost more to produce and on cheaper scopes you get them at the expence of optical quality. Most fixed paralax scopes are set at 100-150 yards, perfect for HMR use. You can have vari but you won't use it. When you start shooting rimfires you will wean yourself off the airgunners habit of using massive mag at short range. You'll have to because you won't see a rabbit at 150 yds on 12 power at last light however good your scope. You have to wind the mag down to get the light gathering.

So my advice would be 3-12X50. 56 if you like. Fixed paralax, no bells no whistles and the best optics your budget allows. Which from my experience means european glass.

 

By the way, I used to think the Hawke was adequate. Since getting the Duralyt on the triple, which is used on rabbits in just the same circumstances I've seen just how far off the pace the cheap scope is. I still think Hawkes are one of the best of the cheapies but the Zeiss is in a completely different league. I guarantee that when it goes on the HMR bags taken at dusk will go up substantially. For serious rabbit control with an HMR, I believe a simple, high quality scope is worth every penny.

 

Long winded but I hope it helps.

[Schmoo]

Thanks for that I will havd to save and save and save some more, if you were on a budget of say £150 what would be a good starting point ?

I would be shooting the hmr all day but at last light would be its prefered time for me.

Am I more interested in the mag or the optic diameter, ie 50 56 40mm ?

Thanks and sorry for the stupid questions, I just dont want to buy one and then have to re buy another a week later and so on. But money is an issue.

Schmoo.

[Gimlet]

Hopefully one of the two scopes I already have should do the trick for the hmr.

I will use the .22 at night possibly with a nv unit of some kind, can a nv scope be used during the day or is it a dedicated darkness unit only, dont want to faff about having to take it off if I use the .22 during the day.

Schmoo.

 

If you use an add-on NV you'll need an ajustable paralax scope and quality glass to get the best ut of the it. I use a N550 on my .22 which can be used in the day but its hard work. Its a grand and never comes off, but it does in the dark everything I used to do with the .22 in the daylight, and it can be used at dusk while there's still light around. The HMR does the rest. Non-digital NV can't be used in daylight, they'll burn out, and true day/night scopes start at about £4000. Add ons can be had cheaper than the Pulsar but they need a decent scope to go on and can't be used when its still light.

[RichardH]

If you use an add-on NV you'll need an ajustable paralax scope and quality glass to get the best ut of the it. I use a N550 on my .22 which can be used in the day but its hard work. Its a grand and never comes off, but it does in the dark everything I used to do with the .22 in the daylight, and it can be used at dusk while there's still light around. The HMR does the rest. Non-digital NV can't be used in daylight, they'll burn out, and true day/night scopes start at about £4000. Add ons can be had cheaper than the Pulsar but they need a decent scope to go on and can't be used when its still light.

 

A .22 with subs and a .22WMR make a nice pair, the WMR is much more use if you need to shoot a fox or two.

 

HMR's are only good for angry mice and cockroaches :yp:

[Thedeerman]

It all comes down to what you need really.

 

If you are doing it for a bit of fun and to put some food on the table, buy a .22 first and shoot a lot of rounds through it. Get decent lamp and get a mate to come out and wave it about for you. you will have a great time.

 

Night vision is a lonely game.

 

Buy the best scope you can afford, you really dont need to spend zeiss money though. Keep an eye out on ebay or on here. I've just sold an as new Leupold for less than £200.