Jmgrain Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 Hi, I am thinking of buying a .410 to use in some very overgrown woods with tall trees that get quite a few pigeon in them, I am wondering which cartridges are best in these conditions and do I need to buy a 3" magnum. john Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linny Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 just get a 12 bore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmgrain Posted May 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 just get a 12 bore I think that would be a bit of an overkill, I like to eat pigeon not lead shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.I.A Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 (edited) I think that would be a bit of an overkill, I like to eat pigeon not lead shot. Ask most there preferred Gauge for pigeon it will be the 12! Ive rarely come across lead shot in any pigeon I have killed with a 12! The 3" 410 carts will be ok up to about 30ish yards but due to lack of shot, pattern density fails beyond this. Ibe always found that the 2 1/2" carts pattern better than the 3" generally. Edited May 19, 2012 by M.I.A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linny Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 I think that would be a bit of an overkill, I like to eat pigeon not lead shot. ok you know best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rimfireboy Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 Ask most there preferred Gauge for pigeon it will be the 12! Ive rarely come across lead shot in any pigeon I have killed with a 12! The 3" 410 carts will be ok up to about 30ish yards but due to lack of shot, pattern density fails beyond this. Ibe always found that the 2 1/2" carts pattern better than the 3" generally. Yes two/ half inch seem to pattern better. I think three inch loads tend to distort the pellets. Eighteen grams of shot is a lot to squeeze through the tight fourten choke. Not an ideal gun for pigeon shooting I.M.O. I think most people will be disappointed with the performance of a fourten if they haven't used one before. You need to realise its limitations. They aren't in the same league as a twenty bore for example. Ok up to about twenty yards but not much more. I've had my fourten since I was a young un. It's still fun to shoot but it really Does have its limitations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmgrain Posted May 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 ok you know best Sorry M8, I don't know best, that's why I am asking. I don't know what the different calibre/shot etc. are like in comparison, I have read that a .410 3" magnum has a good tight pattern at 45 yards and a 12 bore pattern at 45 yards is a lot wider. I am talking about pigeons roosting in the trees NOT flying and the woods are overgrown at ground level. john Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmgrain Posted May 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 Yes two/ half inch seem to pattern better. I think three inch loads tend to distort the pellets. Eighteen grams of shot is a lot to squeeze through the tight fourten choke. Not an ideal gun for pigeon shooting I.M.O. I think most people will be disappointed with the performance of a fourten if they haven't used one before. You need to realise its limitations. They aren't in the same league as a twenty bore for example. Ok up to about twenty yards but not much more. I've had my fourten since I was a young un. It's still fun to shoot but it really Does have its limitations. Hi, what is the difference in range and hitting power 20 bore V .410 and 12 bore. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cant hit rabbits 123 Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 Just out of interest, are you particualrly new to shotgunning? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkfanz Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 Hi, I am thinking of buying a .410 to use in some very overgrown woods with tall trees that get quite a few pigeon in them, I am wondering which cartridges are best in these conditions and do I need to buy a 3" magnum. john howdy thought i,d to this i have a 3in 410,an its ok in close quarters,but my favorite gun to use is my browning medalist 20g,av used it for pigeon decoying,duck flights an pheasant,i also have same model 12g an beretta a300 s/a.but my 20 is best.hope you enjoy what u get,regards john. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkfanz Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 Hi, what is the difference in range and hitting power 20 bore V .410 and 12 bore. John i think 20 is as good as 12 for normal game an rough shooting,i use 28 gram load which is equal to a light 12 load,an the gun only weighs 6lb 2oz as opposed to 71/2 of a 12. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rimfireboy Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 Hi, what is the difference in range and hitting power 20 bore V .410 and 12 bore. John 20 bore tends to throw a tighter pattern than a 12 so you need to be that bit better shot. As for your previous question about fourten pattern at 45 yards. You might as well forget that one. That's way beyond the useful range of a fourten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aldivalloch Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 Jmgrain We're getting some cracking "answers", aren't we!!! M.I.A. tells us, "I've rarely come across lead shot in any pigeon I have killed with a 12!" Presumably the birds just die of fright when they hear the bang, then. And Rimfireboy states that, "20 bore tends to throw a tighter pattern than 12 so you need to be that bit better a shot." Does that apply to all 20 bores and 12 bores regardless of choke and cartridge type, then??? And as for that assertion you read that, "a .410 3" magnum has a good tight pattern at 45 yards and a 12 bore pattern at 45 yards is a lot wider", well, that's frankly rubbish. The fundamental problem with forums like this one is that on the one hand they can be a mine of invaluable information and advice, and, on the other, a mouthpiece for people who don't really know what they're talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin lad Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 i done some pattern test's a few months ago with my 410 and put results up on here search bullets carts section you will see them the 2.5" came out best and the 2" good too but the 3" not too good so for me keep them small, as for roost shooting i have a 12g, 20g and 410 and for me the best gun in the tall tree's is my 12g though the 20g is fine, for the last few weeks me and mungolee have been roost shooting his woods and been doing ok but thurs just gone i took the 410 to see how i got on and found the birds coming in high and didn't get one where as if i would of had one of my other guns i would prob had a few, dont get me wrong i love my little 410 but i think i will keep it for shooting round the barns and bolting bunnies when ferreting colin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KFC Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 (edited) I use 12 and 20. As has been said,when I've used one, 410 has had its limitations. I use fibre wads 30g 6's with 1/4 choke in my 12g semi and fibre wad 28g 6's with 1/2 & 3/4 choke in 20g. I might get the odd bit of shot when eating but nothing to worry about. In shooting in woods the birds can sometimes be quite close and, with plastic wad cartridges, it is a 12g bullet for the first 15yds because the shot is still in the wad. You may blow the bird apart or miss. 12g cartridges are cheaper too. Just go for 12g and have a gun for all seasons Edited May 19, 2012 by KFC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rimfireboy Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 Jmgrain We're getting some cracking "answers", aren't we!!! M.I.A. tells us, "I've rarely come across lead shot in any pigeon I have killed with a 12!" Presumably the birds just die of fright when they hear the bang, then. And Rimfireboy states that, "20 bore tends to throw a tighter pattern than 12 so you need to be that bit better a shot." Does that apply to all 20 bores and 12 bores regardless of choke and cartridge type, then??? And as for that assertion you read that, "a .410 3" magnum has a good tight pattern at 45 yards and a 12 bore pattern at 45 yards is a lot wider", well, that's frankly rubbish. The fundamental problem with forums like this one is that on the one hand they can be a mine of invaluable information and advice, and, on the other, a mouthpiece for people who don't really know what they're talking about. I was talking " like for like" choke, shot size etc for average game cartridges. Of course, there are too many variables to list. Just generally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.I.A Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 Jmgrain We're getting some cracking "answers", aren't we!!! M.I.A. tells us, "I've rarely come across lead shot in any pigeon I have killed with a 12!" Presumably the birds just die of fright when they hear the bang, then. And Rimfireboy states that, "20 bore tends to throw a tighter pattern than 12 so you need to be that bit better a shot." Does that apply to all 20 bores and 12 bores regardless of choke and cartridge type, then??? And as for that assertion you read that, "a .410 3" magnum has a good tight pattern at 45 yards and a 12 bore pattern at 45 yards is a lot wider", well, that's frankly rubbish. The fundamental problem with forums like this one is that on the one hand they can be a mine of invaluable information and advice, and, on the other, a mouthpiece for people who don't really know what they're talking about. Ok I rephrase I have rarely eaten pigeon and come across any pellets in the meat! Happy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 I use a 28 bore now a lot lighter and faster handling l than my 12 and a bit of an improvement over my 20. I can fire a factory 16g load (410 load) or a 28g if I must I normally shoot a 23g 5-7 it has Multi chokes so similar pattern to load as the bigger gun and not over choked like my old 410. To my mind one of the best shotguns around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmgrain Posted May 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 Thanks to all I will have a look at 20 bore, but I must admit that I just like guns, I like old guns like the El Chimbo, folding, side by side .410. I don't like guns that are just functional. Thanks again John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swiss.tony Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 (edited) Sorry M8, I don't know best, that's why I am asking. I don't know what the different calibre/shot etc. are like in comparison, I have read that a .410 3" magnum has a good tight pattern at 45 yards and a 12 bore pattern at 45 yards is a lot wider. I am talking about pigeons roosting in the trees NOT flying and the woods are overgrown at ground level. john he is right a 410 is a waste of time unless your sat on them the cart are miles more expensive ie 7 quid a box or 4.50 for 12 gauge its a no brainer mate more power and cheaper rounds simples 410 have there place but not for that job Edited May 19, 2012 by swiss.tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter.123 Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 Who's a stuck up ***** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmgrain Posted May 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 I think there is more to shooting/guns as a hobby than just killing animals as efficiently as is possible and killing as many as is possible, I have a AA s200 .177 and I get a lot of good hunting and have to work hard to get just one pigeon, but it's the.... me against it, pigeons are bloody sharp and believe me it isn't easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicykillgaz Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 I've just picked up some gamebore 21/2" 11g no6's for £5.50 a box so they are not that steep really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedwards1966 Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 Expecting a .410 to pattern OK and be usable at 45 yards is unrealistic, whatever cartridge type you use. They are great guns, I love mine but the reality is that even on stationery targets the pattern is so small that you struggle to hit anything unless it's very close. The cartridges cost at least as much as a 12 bore for loads suitable for use on birds, which is a real rip-off as they are using about half the shot! If you want to use one then do so, they are good fun, but expect to shoot within 30 yards, as to the cartridge types either 5/6 shot should do, best to try some different brands and lengths/weights as they seem to vary a bit in .410's, it's something you probably need to try out yourself and see what works best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olddogfox Posted May 20, 2012 Report Share Posted May 20, 2012 410 will ok as long as you keep the range short. Why do you not try the 28 gauge with a 19 gram or 21 gram load. The 28 gauge is one of the best patten gauge shotgun out. I use a 28 gauge shooting over decoys for pigeons and I have been impressed with the way it kills. olddogfox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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