teddy boy Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 the country is in financial meltdown due to the bungling of the three (rich)lemons,blair, brown, and cameron. the armed forces, police and other emergency services are all being cut to the bone.disabled and vulnerable of society are getting it in the neck because they have nobody with any muscle to stand their corner. masses amounts of money is being sent abroad when the funds are desperately needed here. but what have we been bombarded with, jimmy carr LEGALLY not paying the full rate of income tax.dont forget people, these tax loopholes were created by those in power for their rich and influential friends.these people intend keeping their wealth and god forbid any commoner should be able to use THEIR laws to get on. YOU keep paying your taxes and the debts the three numties above have helped create, but we intend keeping ours as i quite like the look of a new rolls royce. GOD BLESS GUY FAWKES. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 If I was a multi-millionaire I'd do everything I could to avoid paying as much tax as I legally could. It would be silly not to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruity Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 Were did you stop though, ok jimmy car has found a tax loop hole, i dont blame him if its there find it. What about the millions of pounds being gave out in benefits what is not needed and bungaled contrats by goverment officials with wasted millions, the list just goes on and on whoever is in power Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVB Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 If I was a multi-millionaire I'd do everything I could to avoid paying as much tax as I legally could. It would be silly not to. So only a multi-millionaire should avoid paying tax? What about the rest of us? Surely we should all avoid paying tax? Then what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 So only a multi-millionaire should avoid paying tax? What about the rest of us? Surely we should all avoid paying tax? Then what? I didn't say only multi-millionaires. I can't think of any self employed worker who wouldn't use any legal method to reduce their tax burden, whether they earn £10k or £10m. Who do you know who wouldn't want to do that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rimfire4969 Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 So only a multi-millionaire should avoid paying tax? What about the rest of us? Surely we should all avoid paying tax? Then what? I hire an accountant who sorts my VAT and tax, his job is to do my books in doing so enable me to pay the least amount possible while still staying within the law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVB Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 I hire an accountant who sorts my VAT and tax, his job is to do my books in doing so enable me to pay the least amount possible while still staying within the law. Yea I get that but you are missing the point. Say we all find ways of avoiding tax and so all pay nothing. Then what? All the people on here who love the armed forces, love the police, love the NHS etc will be a bit dissapointed won't they becuase there won't be any money will there? Or are you saying that there is a category of person who shouldn't pay tax and a category of person who should pay tax (and therefore subsidise the rest)? Discuss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willxx Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 I find "call me Dave"'s pontificating on the subject more objectionable than Jimmy Carr doing what I believe almost any of us would have done in his position. Strange how he isn't making similar statements about some Tory supporters/donors and grandees personal legitimate financial arrangments?**cough scottish estates - owned offshore** Isn't it the govts responsibility to make schemes which are "morally repugnant" actually illegal? Microsoft has developed a fantastic bit of software in Excel but a spreadsheet calculates numbers not morality, if the options show you can either have 100-50= you keep 50 or 100-10= you keep 90 which is "morally" the best for you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drayman Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 Said it before - if you've ever asked for the "price for cash" rather than the invoiced price and used it then you are evading tax, which is illegal. But that seems to be OK. If the accountants find a tax loophole then they have to inform the HMRC. So none of the current or future schemes will be new to the Government. Curiously, these tax avoidance schemes are open to everybody but they cost a lot. So you have to be earning enough to get in to them and make it worth your while. You don't think the schemes are run for free ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 Yea I get that but you are missing the point. Say we all find ways of avoiding tax and so all pay nothing. Then what? All the people on here who love the armed forces, love the police, love the NHS etc will be a bit dissapointed won't they becuase there won't be any money will there? Or are you saying that there is a category of person who shouldn't pay tax and a category of person who should pay tax (and therefore subsidise the rest)? Discuss. Nobody said anything about NOT paying tax. It's said that Jimmy Carr put £3.3m into the K2 scheme and only paid 1% in tax, so £33,000. That's about 7 times more than the average taxpayer (£26,000pa) pays each year. Legally he's done nothing wrong. Morally? Well that depends on your morals. Personally speaking, I'd do the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rimfire4969 Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 Nobody said anything about NOT paying tax. It's said that Jimmy Carr put £3.3m into the K2 scheme and only paid 1% in tax, so £33,000. That's about 7 times more than the average taxpayer (£26,000pa) pays each year. Legally he's done nothing wrong. Morally? Well that depends on your morals. Personally speaking, I'd do the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVB Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 Nobody said anything about NOT paying tax. It's said that Jimmy Carr put £3.3m into the K2 scheme and only paid 1% in tax, so £33,000. That's about 7 times more than the average taxpayer (£26,000pa) pays each year. Legally he's done nothing wrong. Morally? Well that depends on your morals. Personally speaking, I'd do the same. I suspect what you really mean is that employers (including self-employed) should pay little tax through 'legal' tax avoidance schemes leaving the employee to pay tax. Personally I paid about £250K in tax last year. Do I wish I could have reduced that bill? Absolutely. Did I have the opportunity? Nope not at all. Because I am an employee rather than an employer Is there a difference? I'm not really sure why I have to pay so much and Jimmy Carr pays so little. Am I jealous? Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 Cameron has made a balls-up here which WILL come back to bite him, whereas the Jimmy Carr story will be wrapping chips by this time next week. A bloke I know is on about £150,000 PA as an employee on PAYE therefore pays a lot of tax. He's the worst champagne socialist I've ever met and seems to think that nobody should be self employed. Despite being 'apparently' very clever he hadn't yet been able to come up with a way in which this would actually work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimlet Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 So only a multi-millionaire should avoid paying tax? What about the rest of us? Surely we should all avoid paying tax? Then what? I avoid paying tax at every opportunity and I shall continue to do so until they screw the lid down. If everyone did the same the government, like the rest of us, would have to learn to live within its means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaxiDriver Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 Did Jimmy Carr, A: Evaid Paying Tax ? B: Avoid Paying Tax ? One is illegal, the other is common sense and wouldn't we all like to do same. If he evaided it then morally he should maybe feel the weight of the law If he avoided paying tax legally then fair play to him, Surely nobody wants/can afford to pay more than they need to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimlet Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 Personally I paid about £250K in tax last year. Do I wish I could have reduced that bill? Absolutely. Did I have the opportunity? Nope not at all. Because I am an employee rather than an employer Is there a difference? I'm not really sure why I have to pay so much and Jimmy Carr pays so little. Am I jealous? Yes. Of course you're jealous, and you're entitled to be. The injustice is not that Jimmy Carr has managed to legally protect his own money from the State but that you cannot. Nor can you have any say whatever on what it is spent, nor are you permitted to see an audit of public accounts, and if the government runs out of money it may demand any arbitary sum from you that it chooses to save itself regardless of whether it might ruin you, and if you refuse to pay or cannot pay it can send you to prison and confiscate your property. In any other sphere of life that would be called extortion. In order to conceal fiscal activities for which he had no democratic mandate Brown deliberately created a hellish and unaccountable tax regime in this country which was guaranteed to encourage evasion, avoidance and monumental waste. He is to blame for this shambles as he is for so much else. You do not work primarliy for the benefit of the government, you work for youself and your family and taxation should be conducted by consent. The greatest burden of moral responsibility should lie not with the individual in paying any amount of tax without question as if government spending were inherently virtuous, which it is not, but with government in handling lightly and wisely money which citizens have given it to use on their behalf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 Yea I get that but you are missing the point. Say we all find ways of avoiding tax and so all pay nothing. Then what? All the people on here who love the armed forces, love the police, love the NHS etc will be a bit dissapointed won't they becuase there won't be any money will there? Or are you saying that there is a category of person who shouldn't pay tax and a category of person who should pay tax (and therefore subsidise the rest)? Discuss. the lovers of tax evasion just need to look at Greece to see where their selfishness would have us? its amazing how the self employed tax fiddlers rise up in defence of someone "playing the game" but the same two faced hypocrites call foul when they refer to someone doing the same at the lower end of the scale IE someone trying to survive on benefit KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 the lovers of tax evasion just need to look at Greece to see where their selfishness would have us? its amazing how the self employed tax fiddlers rise up in defence of someone "playing the game" but the same two faced hypocrites call foul when they refer to someone doing the same at the lower end of the scale IE someone trying to survive on benefit KW I'm not self employed, and at the moment I am trying to survive on benefits after an accident at work. However, if I were to come into a large amount of money I would do my damnedest to keep as much of it out of the taxmans' hands as possible. So would you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobt Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 Never mind that he avoided tax, how did he earn £3.3million? he is as funny as an orphanage on fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 I'm not self employed, and at the moment I am trying to survive on benefits after an accident at work. However, if I were to come into a large amount of money I would do my damnedest to keep as much of it out of the taxmans' hands as possible. So would you. never had much choice mate always been on PAYE tax men get 40% month in month out its no prob I accept that, just a shame some others who have considerably more in the way of wealth would rather give sweet FA KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 Teddy Boy, 2 out of 3 ain't bad ( to quote a song ). Brown and Blair overspending has caused the current crisis along with the banks and a fair few of our population who overspent like morons. Neither Cameron or the 2 Bs "created" the "problem" of the K2 scheme. A number of governments over the years have tinkered with the tax system. A Tax lawyer way back when created the scheme. It is entirely legal and if i had that much dosh, would do the same. The lawyer that devised it probably uses it as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry31 Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 Isn't greed a funny thing I wish I paid a grand a week tax im sure I could manage on the 1600 quid left after tax if everybody paid properly then the overall tax rate would come down for all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 Isn't greed a funny thing I wish I paid a grand a week tax im sure I could manage on the 1600 quid left after tax if everybody paid properly then the overall tax rate would come down for all. Yeah but everybody's greedy. Let's just say you win £5m on the lottery tonight. You have a choice of sticking it all in the bank and paying 45% tax on any interest you earn OR you get a good accountant and your money's put in schemes like the K2 account and you pay 1% tax. Now some might call that greedy, but if my numbers come up tonight I reckon I could live with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drayman Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 I suspect what you really mean is that employers (including self-employed) should pay little tax through 'legal' tax avoidance schemes leaving the employee to pay tax. Personally I paid about £250K in tax last year. Do I wish I could have reduced that bill? Absolutely. Did I have the opportunity? Nope not at all. Because I am an employee rather than an employer Is there a difference? I'm not really sure why I have to pay so much and Jimmy Carr pays so little. Am I jealous? Yes. AVB, an employee salary of somewhere close to 1/2 million can't be sneezed at :blink:. What line of work are you in? But there are schemes for you to reduce your tax bill and accountants will know about them. But with all the schemes there's a risk. It may still be that the HMRC could win a case against K2 and anyone who has used it would have to pay back the tax they owe with interest. As it stands, and like many of these schemes, they are currently described as legal based on the opinion of tax lawyers. If the ruling goes the other way, as has happened, then folks have to pay up - and it may, also as has happened, be money they've already spent. But like you, if I can pay less tax I would do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 Good on him..saw a legal loop hole and exploited it...not like Harry Redknap who broke the law and still got away with it ! I actually quite like his humour and suspect an orphanage on fire would be quite amusing for many Orphans I would imagine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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