League game shooting film

[David BASC]

Dear All,

 

Welcome your thoughts on the LACS film on game shooting - gunsmoke and mirrors...

 

http://www.league.org.uk/

 

David

[bakerboy]

I would reply, but cannot get past the swear filter.

 

What a load of onesided ill informed rubbish

[rapid12]

they list some animals on there being shot, but most on the list is legal species anyway

tree rats, fox,and deer so this puzzles me, as for shooting dogs,cats and so on is just wrong.

 

as for the caged birds, the law sees it ok to do this with chickens for the food chain so whats the difference

Edited July 6, 2012 by rapid12

[al4x]

what a load of tripe I have to say I got about 10 minutes in and the mis information was unbelievable.

[fenboy]

It is of course very one sided , but it has to be said that parts of the shooting fraternity are good at shooting themselves in the foot (no pun meant)by not following a ethical path.

At the end of the day it is up to us to support organisations such as BASC and to preach to others the whole picture of shooting not just the killing part , but the good shooters do to the environment in the terms of conservation and providing a healthy end product for the table .

At the end of the day the league face a up hill battle ,can anyone tell me a country in the world where shooting is banned ?? .

Having said that we must not rest on our laurels and should conduct ourselves in the way our sport deserves.

[dougall]

Just watched including the extended version.Well put together film.Alas some huge generalisations and exaggerations.''Millions of birds dumped''..'''000s of pets cruelly killed''. The gamekeeper who shot and buried a collared pet dog has given great ammunition to LACs which they used.As someone who shoots it is important to hear the other side of the argument.It is also incredibly important that such issues as raptor persecution/use of snares/use of shot game are all addressed.Pheasant shooting,which is the principal target here has a responsibilty to the whole shooting community.I do driven/rough/pigeon,it is only the driven and in particular commercial driven which needs a wake up call.Keep taking BofPs,shooting pets and dumping game and I don't think you win the argument. The positives of countryside management/great food source/business contribution etc are all there but they don't mske the headlines like ''Golden Eagle poisoned'' ''Gamekeeper shot my dog''. Was it a balanced film? Of course it was'nt it is a charity/pressure group fundamentally against shooting. Would a neutral/non-shooting member of the public think well of the shooting community after seeing it?.....nope.

[kent]

To any who do such stupid things as dump birds etc, you are fools feeding anti propaganda. The vidio is actually quite rubbish just some images put together seemingly at random

[wildfowler.250]

BASC ect need more informative promo videos to combat these sorts of things. Can't just be all about insurance and fighting lead ban.

[-Mongrel-]

One sided? Yes, of course.

 

Well made? Not particularly.

 

High impact? Once again, not hugely. I think they could have hit a lot harder with the footage they have if the truth be known.

 

 

 

However, will the uninformed masses accept that as the way it actually is? Yes, probably.

 

That's mainly because they aren't educated in a more factual manner. Purely that this video has been made and circulated is sufficent to create a few more antis. As Wildfowler.250 says, someone (and lets face it, we should be looking squarely at the biggest shooting representative body in the UK) should be countering this sort of drivel. If it's done in a high quality format, and in an honest rather than sensationalist manner, we should eb able to produce some professional, informative and educational videos without coming over as a bunch of Hooray Henrys, stampeding around the countryside in Range Rovers (which, lets face it, most of us aren't).

 

We need to play to our strengths. There is a lot of fantastic conservation work that goes on, we shoulod be shouting about it. Vermin control is sometimes necessary and the best way to achieve it humanely is with a gun. This can be demonstrated, we should be doing that.

 

In my opinion, the shooting community are far too reactive and need to become more pro-active. The vast majority of the population aren't anti hunting per se, they are ani gun and mis-informed. I personally have brought several people around to the idea of shooting as a sport just by taking them to taster sessions. These same people now understand why I own a gun, before they wanted to know why I wanted to own a lethal weapon.

[David BASC]

Thanks very much for the comments, best wishes

 

David

[Scully]

I was a regular poster on the LACS blog for some time.This isn't the first film they've made based on the same accusations.

Most of the information they post doesn't stand up to scrutiny;they often posted material claiming walkers etc were being threatened by shooters but whenever I asked them to post further details they were unforthcoming,simply going 'off on one'.At one time one of the main bloggers claimed she had been contacted by a family stating that a local hunt had vandalised the family vehicle,threatened the husband and the daughter of the family had been subjected to so much bullying that the entire family had been forced to move to another area.Again,when I asked her to substantiate her claims I was subjected to a barrage of anti **** in an attempt to muddy the waters.

I even discussed the matter of the gamekeeper shooting the dog on the blog,which had been fully invesigated by the Police,but when it comes to true facts the LACS don't want to know.

I have had some very long discussions with several of their bloggers;some you can reason with,others are simply riddled with hatred.Its clear once you've talked to several,that they are blatantly class prejudiced and were quite surprised to find I am working class and as common as they come,but there are some amongst them who have animal welfare as their priority,but they are heavily outnumbered by those who are riddled with spite and hatred for those types of country pursuits which they regard as the preserve of the landed gentry.Hence you will find no mention of fishing on their website,at least I never have.

The LACS is struggling financially,and this latest film may be a desperate attempt to raise their exposure and thereby create some revenue.

Saying that,we ignore them at our peril.They are persistent,malicious,devious and have no scruples when it comes to placing into the public domain any information that will further their cause;and it is this misinformation which does their cause damage,as I tried to point out to them on many occassions.But as the saying goes;'throw enogh mud and eventually some of it will stick'.

Each and every item they mention on that film can be discussed at length and in detail,and like I've said, most of it will not stand up to scrutiny;I've done it at length in the past.

We can belittle and dismiss their efforts out of hand,but the only way we can effectively combat them is with facts.We ignore them at our peril.

[al4x]

To any who do such stupid things as dump birds etc, you are fools feeding anti propaganda. The vidio is actually quite rubbish just some images put together seemingly at random

 

None I've ever known have but you do get the odd bird that's smashed up either shot too hard or landed badly that is not Edible a tiny percentage but were dropped in a dead pit etc. only takes one photo to look bad, the normal birds have been sold whatever the price for as long as I've been doing it. The only other reasons that are harder to defend are related to treating with drugs and within the withdrawal period but most people. Cancel the shooting instead.

[cant hit rabbits 123]

Its a terribly produced film spreading complete misinformation by a desperate organisation whose only remaining tactic is tugging on heart strings and portraying itself 'animals last and only hope'. The sooner and the more members of the public understand this the better, as they will just disregard any future publications as drivel. I gave up getting upset over things like this a while ago. Hardcore anti's come across as mentally unstable and the others can usualy be deredicalised with basic logic.

[wildfowler.250]

Thinking about this:

 

if they are going to post things like laying hen pheasants in battery hen like conditions, then something should be done to show that most pheasants aren't reared that way,(I think ).

 

If they are going to show badly snared foxes then something should be done to illustrate how it's done properly and the damage caused by foxes.

 

Basically for every negative image they portray, we should try and illustrate the opposite without being too bias.

 

 

Just an idea.

[Oddman]

It helps to know what we are up against. It's not enough to rage against the antis

 

That said - These people are puritans, roundheads. Some would like to ban all animal killing but their hypocrisy prevents this. They know that they could never ban eating meat for pleasure. They know that the meat, produced on an industrial scale and mindlessly troughed by their intended audience, involves cruelty and killing which far out weighs any crimes alleged against the shooting community. Instead they pursue their thinly disguised class warfare against 'killing for pleasure'

 

The evidence presented is very poor. Lots of hearsay but no mention of convictions. I think a neutral would see the 'pet murdering' allegations for the desperate propaganda that it is.

 

The arguments presented although flawed could be very persuasive to the majority (urban) audience and need to be addressed and properly countered.

 

Demonstrate how the british rearing industry has nothing to hide. I don't think Marco Pierre White was far wrong when he said that pheasant rearing is a form of farming. There is nothing to be ashamed of in this or the manner of the 'harvest'

 

Promote the health benefits of game meat.

 

Explain how the proper countryside management supports the whole ecosystem rather than the sentimental focus on mammals with pretty faces. Rational explanation of predator control

 

Explain the economic benefits of shooting.

 

Vigorously support the continuing involvement of young people in fieldsports. One of the most insidious propaganda tools is the equivalence drawn between introducing young people to shooting and paedophile grooming or gun crime.

 

Ensure that our behaviour in the field is courteous sportsmanlike and responsible. If you don't eat all that you shoot take an interest in where it goes.

[poontang]

To be fair if a 30 minute film is all they can come up with after a 10 year 'investigation' it's pretty lame.

 

They were supposed to be having a symposium on 6th July to discuss shooting and licencing. Bob Elliot from the RSPB was going to be giving the keynote speech.

For some reason the meeting has been cancelled.......... for now.

 

Below is a copy of an invitation e-mail sent out for the 6th July meet.

 

If you clink on the 'online booking form' link at the bottom it takes you to the cancellation page.

 

http://www.e-activist.com/ea-campaign/action.handleViewInBrowser.do?ea.campaigner.email=LanEbAfBXPAnbQ71WR4QQYptSBJWF7Iq&broadcastId=17208&templateId=11331

 

On their own I doubt they have much sway with the powers that be. Unfortunately while they ally themselves to the likes of the RSPB it gives them a much louder voice and therefore they must be destroyed taken seriously.

[cant hit rabbits 123]

To be fair if a 30 minute film is all they can come up with after a 10 year 'investigation' it's pretty lame.

 

They were supposed to be having a symposium on 6th July to discuss shooting and licencing. Bob Elliot from the RSPB was going to be giving the keynote speech.

For some reason the meeting has been cancelled.......... for now.

 

Below is a copy of an invitation e-mail sent out for the 6th July meet.

 

If you clink on the 'online booking form' link at the bottom it takes you to the cancellation page.

 

http://www.e-activist.com/ea-campaign/action.handleViewInBrowser.do?ea.campaigner.email=LanEbAfBXPAnbQ71WR4QQYptSBJWF7Iq&broadcastId=17208&templateId=11331

 

On their own I doubt they have much sway with the powers that be. Unfortunately while they ally themselves to the likes of the RSPB it gives them a much louder voice and therefore they must be destroyed taken seriously.

 

Martina?

 

[spanj]

I would reply, but cannot get past the swear filter.

 

What a load of onesided ill informed rubbish

 

Only somebody with mental health issues could believe such an obviously onesided argument. Notice theres nothing on there about the cruelty they were found guilty of in not managing that deer park they bought / ran (was it in devon ?)

[poontang]

Martina?

 

 

I have no idea who Martina is (honest). :o

 

There's very little on their website at the moment since the symposium was cancelled.

I found the invite after a trawl through the 'net.

 

I put it up as I think it shows a little bit about how these peoples minds work.

The fact that they want to, amongst other things, 'consider the current state of firearm legislation in the UK' shows just how deluded these people are.

Surely the decision makers in Whitehall wouldn't pay much attention to the rantings of a bunch of left wing soap dodgers........would they?

[David BASC]

Thanks again

 

David

[guest1957]

I'm amazed they can retain their charitable status in light of the Charities Act 2006.

 

There is a lot of footage in the video that comes from the unfortunate height of commercial shoots where corporate hospitality was king.

 

Looks like a huge amount of footage was gained by trespass as well...

[tomhw100]

Absolute load of one sided ****! You can imagine the sort of people who watch it.

[poontang]

Absolute load of one sided ****! You can imagine the sort of people who watch it.

 

Of course it's one sided, but can you really imagine the sort of people who watch it and more importantly, are taken in by it?

 

I don't know what the LACS membership numbers are BUT to dismiss them as a bunch of ill informed hippies would be a very dangerous move.

 

I actually think the shooting organisations could learn quite a lot from the film and the LACS website.

[tomhw100]

Well that film is very ill informed wouldn't you say? What could you learn from that website? Obviously it gives us an insight in to how certain people view us but I don't reall y know what else it could teach us.

[cant hit rabbits 123]

First it teaches us that we have to behave. As has been mentioned, much of the footage appears to have een aquired while trespassing. Anyone could be filmed, at any time, by these loonies and be on the internet branded a murdering toff within hours.

 

Second, it teaches us that someone, somewhere, doesnt like us and is doing something about it. These particular people were involved with the Hunting Act, so they may have more weight than we think in government decission making over shooting and even firearms legislation.