Are there remains of Nazi spies executed by British Itelligence buried

[Pole Star]

Any info or comments on this subject could be a touchy subject even today so tread with caution ! .

This was a story I learned of from my late friend & a long standing wild fowler & clay shooter Edward Earle of Co Wexford in South east Ireland who I know will be known to some Irish PW members .

When I lived in Ireland I often sat round the fire with Edward chatting about the ups & downs of shooting & Edward would often talk of the good old days of wildfowling before EEC grants for land drainage ruined the great Irish mixed bag that was & stlill is talked about to this day ! & our talks would often wonder back to the war & what happened in Edwards day as a teenager in the 1940s . Edward would often talk of the dog fights between spitfires & german aircraft over Co Wexford & the time he spoke to a Polish spitfire pilot who made a crash landing at the back of Down's shop & garage in Wells Co wexford .

But this story is a little different ! some time after the war a grave digger was working in a Church of Ireland grave yard wich for the time being will remain unamed as I would not like hoards or historians & tv crews armed with spades & metel detectors & cameras invading a peaceful Irish church yard !.

You know what I mean ! ? .

Anyway as the grave digger was digging a grave in a church of Ireland grave yard not too far down he found human remains ! & next to that he found a second set of remains ! . The strange thing is these were the remains of a man & a woman who had both been shot through the back of the head & I understand both had the remains of a type of harness & an identical brass buckle wich was surggested at the time was a part of a parachute harness ? .

This caused a local stir & it was said at the time that they may have been the remains of German spies picked up by british intelligence & bumped off & secretly buried by british intelligence . The Gardi went to the old IRA & questioned them them about it & they said it was nothing to do with them & no man & woman had ever been reported missing from the area ! so who are they .

[Cannon]

I have a similar story regarding a light 2 seater aircraft that came down in a large Irish graveyard not too long ago. The last Garda report said they had found 234 bodies and were still counting :yp:

[Pole Star]

No dout you you subscribe to the sunday sport Dancrake ! ME ! I like real life debate !

Edited August 10, 2012 by Pole Star

[Imperfection]

The one thing which casts doubt on this story is that Nazi spies were routinley executed during WW2 which was no secret so why in this instance try to hide the body?

[Gutty Boots]

maybe someone's done you a favour & bumped off a couple of those Italian goose guides that were giving you grief.

[ordnance]

Edit.

 

Any info or comments on this subject could be a touchy subject even today so tread with caution ! .

This was a story I learned of from my late friend & a long standing wild fowler & clay shooter Edward Earle of Co Wexford in South east Ireland who I know will be known to some Irish PW members .

When I lived in Ireland I often sat round the fire with Edward chatting about the ups & downs of shooting & Edward would often talk of the good old days of wildfowling before EEC grants for land drainage ruined the great Irish mixed bag that was & stlill is talked about to this day ! & our talks would often wonder back to the war & what happened in Edwards day as a teenager in the 1940s . Edward would often talk of the dog fights between spitfires & german aircraft over Co Wexford & the time he spoke to a Polish spitfire pilot who made a crash landing at the back of Down's shop & garage in Wells Co wexford .

But this story is a little different ! some time after the war a grave digger was working in a Church of Ireland grave yard wich for the time being will remain unamed as I would not like hoards or historians & tv crews armed with spades & metel detectors & cameras invading a peaceful Irish church yard !.

You know what I mean ! ? .

Anyway as the grave digger was digging a grave in a church of Ireland grave yard not too far down he found human remains ! & next to that he found a second set of remains ! . The strange thing is these were the remains of a man & a woman who had both been shot through the back of the head & I understand both had the remains of a type of harness & an identical brass buckle wich was surggested at the time was a part of a parachute harness ? .

This caused a local stir & it was said at the time that they may have been the remains of German spies picked up by british intelligence & bumped off & secretly buried by british intelligence . The Gardi went to the old IRA & questioned them them about it & they said it was nothing to do with them & no man & woman had ever been reported missing from the area ! so who are they .

 

If the IRA said it was nothing to do with them. We can take that as gospel.

 

THE DISAPPEARED.

 

 

There are 17 known cases of individuals who are suspected of having been murdered and secretly buried. Two of these are new cases which have been added to the official list of the I.C.L.V.R. in May 2009 and February 2010. They are Peter Wilson who disappeared in August 1973 and Joe Lynskey who disappeared in 1972. The earliest disappearence reported is that of Seamus Mc Kee and Seamus Wright in October 1972. The latest of those not recovered is Seamus Ruddy in 1985. Cases span over 31 years. Of the cases connected to republican activity, nine were named by the IRA in the spring of 1999 as having been murdered by members of their organisation and their bodies hidden across a number of areas in the South of Ireland. The INLA claimed one death, that of Seamus Ruddy, buried in a forest near Rouen in France. The remaining are unclaimed, however the families contend that given the circumstances and response following the disappearances, members of republican armed groups were responsible and at the very least can shed light on the fate of their loved ones.

In May 1999 legislation was passed which facilitated information to be passed through an intermediary, this led to the identification of the six burial sites. Extensive digs were conducted and in only one of the sites where the remains of Brain McKinney and John McClory found. For the rest there was inevitable disappointment that there would be no closure and expectations were dashed.

There have been eight other bodies found, Danny McIlhone found in November 2009, Charlie Armstrong found in July 2010, Gerard Evans found in October 2010 and Peter Wilson found in November 2010.

Given the circumstances of many of the cases, the families have been left isolated and vulnerable. It is only in recent years that they have begun to meet together. These relationships have been fostered through a yearly remembrance mass which is held on Palm Sunday in St Patrick’s School, Armagh. The yearly service has brought immense comfort to those who continue to struggle with the pain and grief of loss in addition to the lack of knowledge of the final resting place of their loved one. In addition a series of meetings with political parties, US Envoys and other special events has also facilitated the families to build vital and rewarding connections with each other

Edited August 11, 2012 by ordnance

[Pole Star]

Iperfection you have over looked one major point & that is the Irish Free State under Eamon DeValara was neutral much to the annoyance of Britain & the US & was said to be a haven for Nazi spies & also british intelligence & its sympathisers so if these two unknown persons were executed nazi spies it would have to have been done in secret & after the war all captured documents would have been surppressed & I no dout are hidden away in the 100 years secrets act .

The remains of these two people were reburied in the same church yard were they were found & are still marked by 2 rusting metal crosses & I like thoses who know about them wonder who there are ! ? .

Edited August 12, 2012 by Pole Star

[Pole Star]

Thanks for your input Ordance but this event happed just after 1945 & has no connection to the later troubles .

[ordnance]

Thanks for your input Ordance but this event happed just after 1945 & has no connection to the later troubles .

 

My point i am sure the IRA were just as expert as telling lies in 1945 as they are now.

[Cannon]

No dout you you subscribe to the sunday sport Dancrake ! ME ! I like real life debate !

 

It's called humour. By the sounds of it we have very little to go by, but if people are so intrigued by the discovery then surely they should broadcast the details to a wider audience in the hope somebody may be able to shed some light. No point telling half a story.

[Zapp]

This thread doesnt need to turn into yet another boring sectarian handbags session, so lets not go there please.

[ditchman]

You think thats weird you need to hear about the "cantley red barns " where i live, i think you can even google it, but they only tell half the story

 

 

ditchman

[Pole Star]

Thanks for stepping in Zapp ! I was a bit worried the boys in the north of Ireland would take this thread astray if I spoke of this & they did ! , its a seriouse subject wich in some peoples minds needs a bit of closure these remains of this unknow man & woman should have names but who are they ? . My late friend said to me " I know who knows who they are & that is the person who buried them ! " I wonder if that person or persons is still alive today ? if they are then they would be in their late eighties or in the nineties .

If this old story has any truth in the rumours then surley if the case was reopened & the remains exumed then modern science & forensics would do much to solve the mystery & would be able to pinpoint the area in Europe where they grew up ? .

But some how I dout the British or Irish government would like to see the case reopned .

[CZ550Kevlar]

if they had bumped these people off why bury them?

[Thunderbird]

the boys in the north of Ireland

 

Interesting choice of phrase, 'boys' and 'North Of Ireland'....just saying.

[Kes]

I dont see why it would be a British bumping off in Ireland of all places - I dont think the British would have such a significant presence in Ireland at the time but I could be wrong. Maybe it was the Irish reacting to an entreaty to use Irish bases for attacks on England and it became too political - another unwanted invasion, so the truth was concealed???

Speculation is a wonderful thing but never quite the truth.

Who says the parachute harness was German - it could possibly have been British ?

[Pole Star]

True Kes speculation is a wonderful thing & it can lead to the truth ie who are they ? some one must still be alive who could shed some light this mystery & remember british itellegence had the picking up of nazi spies finetuned to a fine art & all nazi spies that landed in britain were picked up & given a stark choice turn & work for us or be executed & as some one said in series the Secret War shown in the 1970s those that would not were taken away & hanged ! . Perhaps we will never know who these people were ! .

[ordnance]

Thanks for stepping in Zapp ! I was a bit worried the boys in the north of Ireland would take this thread astray if I spoke of this & they did ! , its a seriouse subject wich in some peoples minds needs a bit of closure these remains of this unknow man & woman should have names but who are they ? . My late friend said to me " I know who knows who they are & that is the person who buried them ! " I wonder if that person or persons is still alive today ? if they are then they would be in their late eighties or in the nineties .

If this old story has any truth in the rumours then surley if the case was reopened & the remains exumed then modern science & forensics would do much to solve the mystery & would be able to pinpoint the area in Europe where they grew up ? .

But some how I dout the British or Irish government would like to see the case reopned .

 

I don't see how pointing out a obvious flaw in your post eg the reliability of some of the people questioned is taking it astray. I would have thought that if you would have being happy to have responses to your post even if they didn't go with your conspiracy theory.

[Pole Star]

Thanks for making your point Ordnace but we only have to mention shot bodies found in shallow graves in Ireland & then the recent troubles start to surface & yes the reliabiity of questioned people always spring to mind ! .

1945 saw the world move on big time & for a while the Union Flag flew from the GPO in Dublin again on VE day & in those days of celebration who wanted to reopen the cloak & dagger world of war time british intelligence ? all everyone wanted to do was rebuild & get on with their lives . If these remains were never intended to be found then why bury them in a shallow grave in a grave yard ? it should be obvious that one day the grave diggers would come along & find them ! . Regards Pole Star

[spanj]

Edit.

 

 

 

If the IRA said it was nothing to do with them. We can take that as gospel.

 

THE DISAPPEARED.

 

 

There are 17 known cases of individuals who are suspected of having been murdered and secretly buried. Two of these are new cases which have been added to the official list of the I.C.L.V.R. in May 2009 and February 2010. They are Peter Wilson who disappeared in August 1973 and Joe Lynskey who disappeared in 1972. The earliest disappearence reported is that of Seamus Mc Kee and Seamus Wright in October 1972. The latest of those not recovered is Seamus Ruddy in 1985. Cases span over 31 years. Of the cases connected to republican activity, nine were named by the IRA in the spring of 1999 as having been murdered by members of their organisation and their bodies hidden across a number of areas in the South of Ireland. The INLA claimed one death, that of Seamus Ruddy, buried in a forest near Rouen in France. The remaining are unclaimed, however the families contend that given the circumstances and response following the disappearances, members of republican armed groups were responsible and at the very least can shed light on the fate of their loved ones.

In May 1999 legislation was passed which facilitated information to be passed through an intermediary, this led to the identification of the six burial sites. Extensive digs were conducted and in only one of the sites where the remains of Brain McKinney and John McClory found. For the rest there was inevitable disappointment that there would be no closure and expectations were dashed.

There have been eight other bodies found, Danny McIlhone found in November 2009, Charlie Armstrong found in July 2010, Gerard Evans found in October 2010 and Peter Wilson found in November 2010.

Given the circumstances of many of the cases, the families have been left isolated and vulnerable. It is only in recent years that they have begun to meet together. These relationships have been fostered through a yearly remembrance mass which is held on Palm Sunday in St Patrick’s School, Armagh. The yearly service has brought immense comfort to those who continue to struggle with the pain and grief of loss in addition to the lack of knowledge of the final resting place of their loved one. In addition a series of meetings with political parties, US Envoys and other special events has also facilitated the families to build vital and rewarding connections with each other

 

Makes me sick when you think of all the money spent on the bloody sunday inquiry and to see those 2 ***** McGuinness & Adams on TV acting all sincere, denying any active involvement in IRA makes my **** boil. Witht the right sort of pressure brought to bear these cases could be cleared up I'm sure but theres no political value in it is there ...........

[Pole Star]

Spanj you got the wrong thread mate ! this is about 2 unknown graves in a Co Wexford grave yard found after the WW2 wich some locals suspected were german spies landed in Ireland & bumped of by the british secret service & that is what happened in the cloak & dagger world of WW2 so then the rumours must or may have some credibility ? .

 

If any one wants to talk about the later troubles in Ireland then PLEASE START A DIFFERENT THREAD !!!

Regards & appolgies for being abrupt Pole Star

Edited August 12, 2012 by Pole Star

[ordnance]

The post is hard to reply to because its hearsay. I am sure their are lots of urban myths regarding WW2. What you are saying is possible i am sure their are lots of things went on in ww2 that we don't know about. But without any thing to back up the story i don't see how this thread can go anywhere. Perhaps you should take it to the media or the British and Irish governments.

[Pole Star]

You could be right there Ordnance & next time I am across the water I may just take a trip to those 2 lonely rusting crosses & wonder if it can be taken any further ? but some how if it was a cloak & dagger WW2 case then I some how dont think the authorities will make me welcome !

Edited August 12, 2012 by Pole Star